Harbringer 20s perma protection - you kidding right?

[Connla Dda.9407]

It is concerrning wvw.

How to kill such abomination?

It is even worse than unkillable catalysts.

Condis, liftoff to the skyes and you are dead.

Nerf this already.

[Greviathan.6107]

8 minutes ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

It is even worse than unkillable catalysts.

From personal experience I think catalysts are much, much worse.
 

That said, the harbinger remains a very strong spec when built in celestial. However it has 2 major weaknesses:
It has no active defenses and relies almost entirely on projectiles (including elixirs, blocking them cancels 50% of their effects).
Basically harbingers lose 90% of their offensive power if you have skills that block projectiles, even better those that send them back such as Dagger Storm or Magnetic Aura.

If you tell me what class/build you play, maybe I can give you some advice.

[Infinity.2876]

necro = anet child

 

I don't remember the last time it was nerfed significantly.

[TheJmandude.1548]

45 minutes ago, Infinity.2876 said:

necro = anet child

 

I don't remember the last time it was nerfed significantly.

Um, what? They gutted Epidemic and Reaper shroud pops in five seconds. Not to mention we're still highly prone to stun locks due to our lack of stability. Anet's golden child is Guardian with broken asf Willbender (which dunks on Harbinger due having access to light aura and farting out boons way more consistently) and overall just being meta in every single game mode.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

If reaper shroud pops in 5 seconds you are either massively outnumbered or aren't making use of its superior damage reduction.

[Bookah pls.9352]

18 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If reaper shroud pops in 5 seconds you are either massively outnumbered or aren't making use of its superior damage reduction.

Tell me, how much damage reduction do you think reaper shroud gives exactly? because reaper can be burst down pretty damned easily if you want to, or you can simply just wait for shroud to end and then they have absolutely zero.

Compared to every other class that has access to blocks, evade frames, invulns, stealth and all the rest. 

If you're having problems against reapers then its always absolutely a l2p issue, which clearly you are if you genuinely think that reaper has superior damage reduction to other classes.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Bookah pls.9352

[Infinity.2876]

Sorry I was absent when they nerfed it.

curses are still pretty buff tho

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

I think many people who complain about necro being too tanky have never actually played it alot in pvp/wvw setting. necro is actually the class which has the greatest difficulty in pulling off a 1 vs. X win (with X>1).

The reason for this is simple. When you play any other class in a 1vsX (really, ANY other class), you always have access to damage evasion skills that work independent of the number of enemies (i.e. the amount of incoming attacks) you face.

For example, when playing Mesmer, your distortion will avoid ALL damage, regardless if it's one enemy hitting you or a full zerg.

Same is true for Thief, let's say Daredevil. Your evade skills will avoid ALL incoming attacks, be it from 100 pewpew rangers or just one. Some of these non-necro classes even have evade/damage prevention skills that get BETTER the more incoming damage/attacks you receive. Most obvious example the warrior heal skill and the revenant heal skill.

 

With NECRO however, when you face multiple enemies, you are sh*t out of luck. It ALWAYS makes a difference how many enemies you are facing when playing necro. And I know what some of you want to reflexively respond: "But dude, just position yourself correctly!"

This brings us to the next aspect of why necro really isn't hard to kill at all: it is the class with -by far- the worst mobility, and mobility is the prerequisite for good positioning.

 

TL,DR: necro really isn't hard to bring down,  and if you guys actually tried to win in difficult situations (such as 1 vs X) as opposed to farming in zergs you would see that ANY other class is better suited for such challenges.

[Yasai.3549]

19 minutes ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

Tell me, how much damage reduction do you think reaper shroud gives exactly? because reaper can be burst down pretty damned easily if you want to, or you can simply just wait for shroud to end and then they have absolutely zero.

To be perfectly fair they do have pretty good damage mitigation in the form of pulsing Blinds and Chills, which most definitely hinders classes ability to fight them. Thing is, their stuff is pretty easy to walk out of or just avoid which makes Reaper easily bullied by ranged classes. 

But knowing Lan's Reaper build, they use it to surf zergs, which in that case, Reaper has a ridiculous survival rate just crowd surfing, which may contribute to his viewpoint on Reaper durability. Reaper is probably one of the few specs that can actually wade through a zerg and come out the other side not too worse for wear. 

[Strider.7849]

6 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

To be perfectly fair they do have pretty good damage mitigation in the form of pulsing Blinds and Chills, which most definitely hinders classes ability to fight them. Thing is, their stuff is pretty easy to walk out of or just avoid which makes Reaper easily bullied by ranged classes. 

But knowing Lan's Reaper build, they use it to surf zergs, which in that case, Reaper has a ridiculous survival rate just crowd surfing, which may contribute to his viewpoint on Reaper durability. Reaper is probably one of the few specs that can actually wade through a zerg and come out the other side not too worse for wear. 

Can you or @Lan Deathrider.5910 share the build? I absolutely love Reaper and am always looking for other ways to play it. 

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

2 minutes ago, Strider.7849 said:

Can you or @Lan Deathrider.5910 share the build? I absolutely love Reaper and am always looking for other ways to play it. 

oh boy, this gonna be good

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

42 minutes ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

Tell me, how much damage reduction do you think reaper shroud gives exactly? because reaper can be burst down pretty damned easily if you want to, or you can simply just wait for shroud to end and then they have absolutely zero.

Shroud has an inherent 50%. Infusing Terror is another 20%. Frost Aura is another 10%. Protection is another 33%. Food for another 10%. These stack multiplicatively to ~79% reduced damage. If you bother to use Rise you can get that to 85.5% reduction.

42 minutes ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

Compared to every other class that has access to blocks, evade frames, invulns, stealth and all the rest. 

Necro, Rev, and Warrior all share that problem. Warrior only has 4 to 5 more active defense skills than Necro, but that is including blind sources.

42 minutes ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

If you're having problems against reapers then its always absolutely a l2p issue, which clearly you are if you genuinely think that reaper has superior damage reduction to other classes.

I don't. I play Reaper in WvW and face tank RI supervisors while killing players that think they're safe from me. If you are having problems with surviving  that's a l2p issue for you.

24 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

To be perfectly fair they do have pretty good damage mitigation in the form of pulsing Blinds and Chills, which most definitely hinders classes ability to fight them. Thing is, their stuff is pretty easy to walk out of or just avoid which makes Reaper easily bullied by ranged classes. 

But knowing Lan's Reaper build, they use it to surf zergs, which in that case, Reaper has a ridiculous survival rate just crowd surfing, which may contribute to his viewpoint on Reaper durability. Reaper is probably one of the few specs that can actually wade through a zerg and come out the other side not too worse for wear. 

It really isn't one build is the thing, just knowing how Reaper works. I typically pop Spectral walk, enter shroud, RS2 into the middle while popping IT, spin to win, AA while I can, and then either RS2 out or exit shroud while using Spectral Recall. The amount of damage reduction that is there lets shroud last long enough while in the middle of the zerg and lay down damage and then get out. While waiting for Life Force to refill I'll use GS5 or Spectral Grasp to pull enemies over to kill them. Sometimes I run two wells, corruption and darkness, and lay them on the zerg before diving in. It's really more about gameplay tactics than any given build and knowing how not to overextend and playing to the strengths of a profession.

 

[Bookah pls.9352]

18 minutes ago, Seuchenherbst.2746 said:

oh boy, this gonna be good

It will be rise reaper. 

A build specifically built for gvg clashes that is substantially better than a regular roamer reaper build for zergs and contributes pretty damned well to fights, it's a build i love and play regularly, however i will bet they are basing their experiences on playing it a few times while never being target called on and suddenly thinking they are immortal. The build will still absolutely melt if focused on and isn't exactly a good duelist either which will get stomped on by the vast majority of duels. The dual dagger version pre staff buffs was very good at surprising people with a quick immob into your burst.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Bookah pls.9352 said:

It will be rise reaper. 

A build specifically built for gvg clashes that is substantially better than a regular roamer reaper build for zergs and contributes pretty damned well to fights, it's a build i love and play regularly, however i will bet they are basing their experiences on playing it a few times while never being target called on and suddenly thinking they are immortal. The build will still absolutely melt if focused on and isn't exactly a good duelist either which will get stomped on by the vast majority of duels. The dual dagger version pre staff buffs was very good at surprising people with a quick immob into your burst.

I don't run Rise. Those little boogers aren't reliable.

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It really isn't one build is the thing, just knowing how Reaper works. I typically pop Spectral walk, enter shroud, RS2 into the middle while popping IT, spin to win, AA while I can, and then either RS2 out or exit shroud while using Spectral Recall. The amount of damage reduction that is there lets shroud last long enough while in the middle of the zerg and lay down damage and then get out. While waiting for Life Force to refill I'll use GS5 or Spectral Grasp to pull enemies over to kill them. Sometimes I run two wells, corruption and darkness, and lay them on the zerg before diving in. It's really more about gameplay tactics than any given build and knowing how not to overextend and playing to the strengths of a profession.

 

I really hate to break it to you, buddy, but you could have used literally any other class to do "le ebic farming people while protected by allied zerg" thing. It's not only possible, but easier, too. Really, all these years you used necro for this were for nothing. Again, really sorry for telling you.

[Yasai.3549]

22 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

It is concerrning wvw.

How to kill such abomination?

It is even worse than unkillable catalysts.

Condis, liftoff to the skyes and you are dead.

Nerf this already.

Play Deadeye and steal their boons. 
Walk all over them with Stealth and squat on their dead bodies. 

Just because one thing counters another doesn't mean it's an "abomination" it just means you aren't equipped to deal with it, and with 9 professions and 3 especs each, there are so many interactions that you are more than welcome to explore instead of coming on forums and whining like a puppy. 

[Bookah pls.9352]

21 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I don't run Rise. Those little boogers aren't reliable.

So your entire basis is on having ehp of 34k? oof....

[TheJmandude.1548]

5 hours ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

Tell me, how much damage reduction do you think reaper shroud gives exactly? because reaper can be burst down pretty damned easily if you want to, or you can simply just wait for shroud to end and then they have absolutely zero.

Compared to every other class that has access to blocks, evade frames, invulns, stealth and all the rest. 

If you're having problems against reapers then its always absolutely a l2p issue, which clearly you are if you genuinely think that reaper has superior damage reduction to other classes.

The fact that I can burst down a Reaper shroud on CORE NECRO is telling of how bad this spec is right now. People always say: "Oh Necro has sustain because second health bar" not realizing that they are so easy to stunlock and if the opponent has no weakness and/or the necro has no protection, power builds just eat them alive.

[solemn.9670]

On 2/3/2023 at 11:37 AM, Connla Dda.9407 said:

 is even worse than unkillable catalysts

So are we finally going to admit it

Can we just admit every spec has something twice as worse than cata if played by someone who knows what they're doing and enjoys really annoying builds

[Dadnir.5038]

36 minutes ago, solemn.9670 said:

So are we finally going to admit it

Can we just admit every spec has something twice as worse than cata if played by someone who knows what they're doing and enjoys really annoying builds

Every profession is overpowered based on how one look at it. However, saying that every spec has something twice as worse than cata is wrong. Otherwise it's not Catalyst that would be meta in sPvP but those specs that have tools twice as worse.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Only 20s prot? That harb clearly wasn't trying..

[Dadnir.5038]

14 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Only 20s prot? That harb clearly wasn't trying..

Well, that's corruptor's fervor.

Other have 7-10% damage reduction here and there in their traitlines, Necromancer have prot if he manage to vomit enough conditions. To reach the 20s cap, thought, it must have been a long fight.

[Nimon.7840]

Oh no, harbinger with full cele ("invested in boon duration") but still with no real mobility and no invulns, blocks, or evades in it's kit can stack Perma protection.

Its not like other classes can't do the same without the requirement of actually hitting people or cleansing a ton of conditions.

Is it a problem?

Imo: yes

Is it much easier on other classes: yes as well

[Infinity.2876]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:27 AM, Infinity.2876 said:

necro = anet child

 

I don't remember the last time it was nerfed significantly.

*coughs*

 

Played this match yesterday on a chronobunker build from metabattle

[Acanthus.8120]

1 hour ago, Infinity.2876 said:

*coughs*

 

Played this match yesterday on a chronobunker build from metabattle

I'm sorry, but am I reading this right? You ate a full well of darkness, half of a soul spiral, and a point blank spectral grasp that otherwise would have split towards 4 people while being ganged up on by a guardian also?

I'm not even a PvP player and I think you earned that death.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Acanthus.8120
Half, not a full soul spiral