Necro changes previewed for Feb 3

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

So, it looks like Augury of Death is just a totally dead trait without the cooldown reduction on it.  Not that it was taken much before, but it was at least situationally useful, but with its only effect being a small life steal on-hit for shouts, that's just not even good enough to take over Relentless Pursuit when you have a full bar of shouts.

 

I like the dagger changes, but I don't feel they're enough.  That said, it's getting closer to the point where I feel it has a niche, but Necro overall doesn't have the capabilities of supporting that niche.  Like, I could see dagger being a very good weapon for a tank in PvE, but no Necro spec has the tools to fulfill duties people want from a tank in PvE.  If Scourge had more to offer than some condi cleanse and barrier in a tank role (don't want to use healing, since Transfusion's pull is actively awful on a tank), it could be nice with dagger ensuring you never run out of life force and yourself topped up, but this is all just to be a bad healmech.  No other spec comes close to this usefulness (as Harbinger needs to stack on the group for sharing quickness and fury), so Dagger in group PvE is just a weapon without a build it works in.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Drarnor Kunoram.5180

[Black Storm.6974]

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Or Anet knows that Dagger on Reaper is one of the most sustainable builds you can access as a Reaper and want to make that option improved for people that want to play that way.

This isn't about Anet pushing us  to play a certain way with some trap. That's absolutely absurd. It's about Anet giving players options.

 

I appreciate your will to keep staying here sharing your thoughts despite how the people in this community fail understanding them and the reasons around the balance changes. It is good that ArenaNet gets to see some variety in the feedback they get on the Forums.

 

Anyway, I’m here to say that, as someone who enjoys playing Necromancer (especially Reaper), and loves playing solo experimenting many builds, I like the direction of those changes. Consolidating the dagger as a weapon that provides a mix of sustain and damage, making shouts being more impactful at melee range for Reaper, the cooldown reductions made baseline, etc. They are all things I appreciate and I wanted for a long time.

 

I don’t have any interest in PvP, so I have nothing to say about how the changes might impact Necromancer competitively.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Black Storm.6974

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It is a stated design vulnerability

which is being quietly pushed to absurd levels. Not only lack of stab per se, but also the slow removal of boon corrupt in favour of boon rip. In competitive that's a big deal because stab -> fear is one of necro's strongest tools of keeping enemies in check.
 

Meanwhile stab being ripped, and then having to cast  another skill do to cc is asking to be dogpiled and deleted in competitive.
Core necros don't have their own stab to protect their casts, and are almost always focused by enemy cc...
While other necro specs save reaper have very small tiny access to stab (like 1 stack).

Edited February 4, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[felincyriac.5981]

2 slides for necro feels like a starter course compared to guard/ele's main courses, just like the previous patches. No favouritism here 😒

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

No Stability, No Resistance, No Vigor, No Mobility.

Lots of health though and as you say "superior damage reduction". Necro is built to be a punching bag.

Lots of condition cleanses and transfers. Lots of blind. Lots of fear. Lots of weakness. You're only a punching bag if you let yourself be.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

which is being quietly pushed to absurd levels. Not only lack of stab per se, but also the slow removal of boon corrupt in favour of boon rip. In competitive that's a big deal because stab -> fear is one of necro's strongest tools of keeping enemies in check.
 

Yeah I disagree with removing the boon corruption. They are also too shy on boon counters in WvW.

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Meanwhile stab being ripped, and then having to cast  another skill do to cc is asking to be dogpiled and deleted in competitive.
Core necros don't have their own stab to protect their casts, and are almost always focused by enemy cc...
While other necro specs save reaper have very small tiny access to stab (like 1 stack).

Nah, but there are blinds and fears to protect your casts.

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Lots of condition cleanses and transfers. Lots of blind. Lots of fear. Lots of weakness. You're only a punching bag if you let yourself be.

We already know that you like to play behind allied zerg, but we are talking about actually facing enemies on your own. In that context, necro IS a punching bag.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Seuchenherbst.2746 said:

We already know that you like to play behind allied zerg, but we are talking about actually facing enemies on your own. In that context, necro IS a punching bag.

Buddy I'll dive into an RI camp to kill enemy players that think they're safe and stomp them long before the RI supervisor is ever a threat to me. Necro is only a punching bag if you let it be.

[Tnanever.3192]

15 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Scourge needs a redesign before it goes back in. And I imagine it would get the firebrand treatment. 

A redesign would be nice, but they should have at least pumped the numbers at bit.  For example, a 25 second cooldown on their crappy shroud that barely does any barrier and damage makes them useless, while reaper's shroud can be a full second health bar while they spam heavy damage with a couple buttons.  Necro as a whole is underpowered, but reaper needed the least improvement out of the subclasses....and of course these genius devs give all the buffs to reaper.  It's like they're not even trying to be objective or use priority.

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

17 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Buddy I'll dive into an RI camp to kill enemy players that think they're safe and stomp them long before the RI supervisor is ever a threat to me. Necro is only a punching bag if you let it be.

Again, we are talking about non-afk enemies. Maybe make another thread specifically aimed at targeting already downed or afk players, if you want to continue pretending necro is actually a class well suited for 1vX roaming.

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

4 minutes ago, Tnanever.3192 said:

ecro as a whole is underpowered, but reaper needed the least improvement out of the subclasses....and of course these genius devs give all the buffs to reaper.  It's like they're not even trying to be objective or use priority.

my thoughts exactly

[Nimon.7840]

14 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Nice, I love these double whammy patches. 

1. Anet DIDN'T just dump DPS on Reaper coefficients to enable people to continue claiming it's a pure DPS spec that needs competitive DPS because 'can't get teams'.

2. Anet made changes to Reaper that actually matter to its gameplay (even if you think those changes are not good)

Just another example of Anet exercising smart application of thoughtful damage buffs to reinforce gameplay over bean counting. 

Not disappointed with WH or Dagger changes either, though the LF regain is pretty hefty (too much IMO). Shout out to the  "add condi to dagger AA" people out there as well. 

 

i dont really think those changes change how reaper plays out.
especially in wvw/pvp.
you basically need flesh wurm and spectral walk on every single roaming build, so you can not just go into a fight, but sometimes you can get out of a fight as well.
since we dont know the numbers yet, its still hard to say, wether shouts will get used.
 

BUT:
theres only really 3 possible slots to put a shout in:

- Heal
- 1 utility
- the elite

you wont see more shouts than that and i doubt, that three shouts change how you play reaper.
 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Seuchenherbst.2746 said:

Again, we are talking about non-afk enemies. Maybe make another thread specifically aimed at targeting already downed or afk players, if you want to continue pretending necro is actually a class well suited for 1vX roaming.

Who said AFK? Stop pretending that necro has weak sustain.

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

1 minute ago, Nimon.7840 said:

i dont really think those changes change how reaper plays out.
especially in wvw/pvp.
you basically need flesh wurm and spectral walk on every single roaming build, so you can not just go into a fight, but sometimes you can get out of a fight as well.

No no, didn't you read what other people said? No need to get out of a fight! Simply us Necro's OP sustain*! And why us teleports? With Necro's MASSIVE sustain*, simply walk (no need to run) away from fight. It's that simple, duh!

 

*trademark

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Who said AFK? Stop pretending that necro has weak sustain.

oh, I thought you made a serious post, not satire, my bad. You played it too subtle for me, mate.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Seuchenherbst.2746 said:

oh, I thought you made a serious post, not satire, my bad. You played it too subtle for me, mate.

Hey, we'll obviously disagree. That's fine. We each have our gameplay experiences that inform what we post. 

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Hey, we'll obviously disagree. That's fine. We each have our gameplay experiences that inform what we post. 

yeah, some of us obviously kill alot of afk players without realizing it, and some of us noticed that 1vX is easier to accomplish with literally any other class besides necro.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Seuchenherbst.2746 said:

yeah, some of us obviously kill alot of afk players without realizing it, and some of us noticed that 1vX is easier to accomplish with literally any other class besides necro.

Some of us know how to actually play a spec to it's strengths. 

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Some of us know how to actually play a spec to it's strengths. 

again with the satire! marvellously executed!

[GoingMenthol.7281]

Does Necro pump out enough boons regularly for Blighter's Boon to even be interesting? I can only think of the Spite traitline and Blood is Power

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, GoingMenthol.7281 said:

Does Necro pump out enough boons regularly for Blighter's Boon to even be interesting? I can only think of the Spite traitline and Blood is Power

You need Spite pretty much. You can use sigils, food, and Runes that grant boons as well.

Just from the obvious spite and reaper traits you can output 500-1500 HP per second depending on the number of targets you strike.

[Yasai.3549]

10 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

that's just not even good enough to take over Relentless Pursuit when you have a full bar of shouts.

Okay but people don't even take Relentless Pursuit that often since Chilling Nova actually does see use if you want to keep Chill uptime, and also a nice additional burst damage. 

So Reaper has 2 dead traits in PvE and 1 dead trait in PvP. 

 

[Yasai.3549]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You need Spite pretty much. You can use sigils, food, and Runes that grant boons as well.

Just from the obvious spite and reaper traits you can output 500-1500 HP per second depending on the number of targets you strike.

If not for the fact that Reaper's Onslaught is so crucial for damage dealing in PvE, I'd take Blighter's Boon anyday. You cast CTTB + YAAW back to back and you get so much Life Force back. 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Yasai.3549 said:

If not for the fact that Reaper's Onslaught is so crucial for damage dealing in PvE, I'd take Blighter's Boon anyday. You cast CTTB + YAAW back to back and you get so much Life Force back. 

 

BB is a really good trait that people sleep on. It's the quickness from RO that I miss. I make up for it with Dread and Celerity Sigils. But in PvE, yeah that damage boost is too crucial.

The change to BB is obviously competitive focused though. And RS gives plenty of damage in competitive without RO.

[Yasai.3549]

13 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

BB is a really good trait that people sleep on. It's the quickness from RO that I miss. I make up for it with Dread and Celerity Sigils. But in PvE, yeah that damage boost is too crucial.

The change to BB is obviously competitive focused though. And RS gives plenty of damage in competitive without RO.

I used BB alot back when RO didn't have Quickness but now that RO does, it's like, no going back. 

Taking Dread isn't too bad but you lose Close to Death too which really sucks for damage, especially since Reaper already struggles with out of shroud damage. 

Honestly I wish they would just rework Deathly Chill. It's just not great and not consistent. Make it something like "Shroud 4 (or/& 2) now applies Bleed stacks, attack nearby enemies when leaving Shroud, inflicting additional Bleed stacks based on Life Force threshold" 
Would instantly make Condi Reaper an actual thing. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Yasai.3549