Feb 3 preview for rev

[Infusion.7149]

• Resilient spirit (PVP) - barrier reduction to 119
• Kalla's Fervor (PVP/WVW) - power damage per stack increased to 2%
• Heroic Command, Lasting Legacy  (PVP/WVW) - might stacks to 9s duration
• Bloodbane Path (PVP/WVW) -  0.265 coefficient now
• Sevenshot: Increased power coefficient per strike from 0.24 to 0.265 in PvP and WvW.
• Endless Enmity - no longer requires enemy health threshold , fury reduced to 4s and applies to allies now
• Brutal Momentum - 10% crit chance when endurance not full , still 33% chance when full
• Orders from Above (PVE) - alac upped from 1.5 to 2s    <---- wow
• Ancient Echo - now refreshes Tranquility instead of granting regen in Ventari

  Vindicator

• Phantom's Onslaught: Reduced power coefficient from 1.36 to 1.18 in PvP only.
• True Strike: Reduced power coefficient per block stack from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvP only.
• Spear of Archemorus: Reduced power coefficient from 2.67 to 2.33 in PvP only.
• Nomad's Advance: Reduced power coefficient from 2.1 to 1.7 in PvP only.
• Scavenger Burst: Reduced power coefficient from 1.4 to 1.25 in PvP only.
• Imperial Impact: The attack from this trait no longer inflicts chill in PvP and WvW. Reduced power coefficient from 0.625 to 0.5 in PvP only.
• Saint of zu Heltzer - (WVW only) healing bonus reduced to 10% <--- this is not in notes but was in stream

Edited February 4, 2023 by Infusion.7149
add missing parts

[Jaykay.9641]

Severely disappointed.

Basically every other profession got heavy number changes, ability reworks, and trait updates. Rev got nothing. Nice buff to AlacRev I guess. Celestial Rene will prob see some more play again in WvW. Chill removal from Imperial Impact was unnecessary and very mad about that; Big nerf to condi Vindi playstyles.

Summer balance patch better have Revenant as THE premier profession changes. So many things needs adjustments and nothing happened for Rev in this otherwise massive patch for the rest of the game.

[oubee.9520]

Salvation Vindi roamer dead now lol

[Shao.7236]

Still no CoR hitbox fixes.

Still no Mallyx fixes.

@oubee.9520Salvation constant barrier was op anyway.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Shao.7236

[Buran.3796]

27 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

@oubee.9520Salvation constant barrier was op anyway.

   So OP that in the last MAT the European winner team ran 5 catalyst and the American winner team ran 2 Catalyst, 1 Tempest and 2 Spellbreakers. That's 8 Eles and 2 Spellberakers toping the 10 best slots on the Earth. So Rev has to be nerfed, to grant that in the next MAT the Ele and Warrior nerfs still cover the whole hall of fame. Which by the way are the mains of the current balance designers....

   I only saw one Vindi and one Herald in the whole EU MAT roster, both of whom were easily trampled in their short sailings. The damage nerfs are irrelevant since Rev doesn't have a place in serious contenders for the MAT, but the chill removal from Imperial Impact is criminal, since changes what the ability does in different game modes (the main reason I stopped playing Firebrand).

   The patch is garbage, as were the two last ones. 

   

[Shao.7236]

1 minute ago, Buran.3796 said:

   So OP that in the last MAT the European winner team ran 5 catalyst and the American winner team ran 2 Catalyst, 1 Tempest and 2 Spellbreakers. That's 8 Eles and 2 Spellberakers toping the 10 best slots on the Earth. So Rev has to be nerfed, to grant that in the next MAT the Ele and Warrior nerfs still cover the whole hall of fame. Which by the way are the mains of the current balance designers....

   I only saw one Vindi and one Herald in the whole EU MAT roster, both of whom were easily trampled in their short sailings. The damage nerfs are irrelevant since Rev doesn't have a place in serious contenders for the MAT, but the chill removal from Imperial Impact is criminal, since changes what the ability does in different game modes (the main reason I stopped playing Firebrand).

   The patch is garbage, as were the two last ones. 

   

Adding 2 evades to Vindicator was the mistake regardless, period. Everything has to be nerfed for it now. Barrier on Salvation or just pulsing barrier in general on anything is a problem and shouldn't be part of the game if they don't treat it like it is the equivalent of healing.

[Obtena.7952]

I remember SOMEONE 😉 said Vindicator can't continue to exist with unbalanced Alliance sides. Looks like they were right. Here is the relevant quote from Anet's patch notes:

We'd like to see vindicator builds move into more offensive trait choices to make up for the loss in damage, instead of remaining a damage threat while focusing on defensive traits.

Completely agree that reverting back to 2 dodges ... ruined identity. Vindicator is now just a Revenant with access to 3 legends that can't be balanced easily due to the opposing nature and gameplay impact of Alliance legends. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

Adding 2 evades to Vindicator was the mistake regardless, period. Everything has to be nerfed for it now. Barrier on Salvation or just pulsing barrier in general on anything is a problem and shouldn't be part of the game if they don't treat it like it is the equivalent of healing.

   Did you read the patch?

"Vindicator is still overperforming relative to where we want it to be in PvP. With other top elite specializations like spellbreaker and catalyst seeing some reductions, we wanted to make sure to bring down vindicator as well, and we're continuing to pull back on some of the damage improvements that were made following the Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons™ launch when vindicator was still struggling with access to one dodge. We'd like to see vindicator builds move into more offensive trait choices to make up for the loss in damage, instead of remaining a damage threat while focusing on defensive traits."

   So in one hand, they say that want to move sustain from Vindi and focus on damage, which makes sense, and in other they remove damage from the build, which contraditcs with point 1, and then is the insult over the harm, calling Vindi "overperformer" when never in 10.5 years of history of PvP a single class filled 80% of the MAT roster like Ele does now. I doubt Vindi competes in AoE damage with Catalyst (can be argued), but for sure it doesn't in mobility + invulns + re-sustain + cc. I mean: they pested rifle Mechanist due was doing good damage while being easy to play in PvE due people moaned that filled 30% of raids, but having Eles making 80% of the meta in PvP is fine? 

  Graciously is not a think to be worried about, since the game mode has been dead for almost a year, but still...

[Buran.3796]

30 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I remember SOMEONE 😉 said Vindicator can't continue to exist with unbalanced Alliance sides. Looks like they were right. 

Completely agree that reverting back to 2 dodges ... ruined identity. Vindicator is now just a Revenant with access to 3 legends that can't be balanced easily due to the opposing nature and gameplay impact of Alliance legends. 

   Beware the long lost prodigal son! Wellcome! Last time you were here you were swearing that ANet would never revert the single evade since ANet never backpedal (despite they do it a lot, as happened before). Then Vindi recovered the second dodge and you faded way to lick your wounds. Any new acute prediction to make? Don't bother to answer, I was just being rethorical...   

   I don't think Vindi has much to balance since is not a top choice in any game mode Revt only stands out in terms of not being ftp and the number of new bugs that can stack x patch...

[Obtena.7952]

18 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Beware the long lost prodigal son! Wellcome! Last time you were here you were swearing that ANet would never revert the single evade since ANet never backpedal (despite they do it a lot, as happened before). Then Vindi recovered the second dodge and you faded way to lick your wounds. Any new acute prediction to make? Don't bother to answer, I was just being rethorical...   

   I don't think Vindi has much to balance since is not a top choice in any game mode Revt only stands out in terms of not being ftp and the number of new bugs that can stack x patch...

That's true ... I had to eat crow on that one. It was an exceptional thing to see Anet go to two dodges on Vindi but to my credit, my reasoning was that it would be a bad change ... and it is. No wounds to lick as the pain from losing the identity of the spec is not going to go away and it's going to continue to plague the spec in ways that were obvious (at least to me) as we can see with this and previous patches already. I have choice, I just play something else where the identity is appealing to me. 

I mean, you can CLAIM all you like that you don't THINK Vindi has much to balance. I think you should take some of your own advice, read the patch notes and convince yourself what you think is not inline with what Anet is doing though. Maybe you need to be reminded this is the SECOND time Anet is balancing Vindi in PVP because of Alliance.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Was really hoping for some shield changes for Herald. They are giving other classes' support weapons some nice updates so hopefully shield will be next on the menu. In terms of updating stuff to 2023 powercreep standards, I think hammer could use a bit of love too, or at the very least a bug fix for CoR. Would like to see Pain Absorption get some new polish too. And Also would like to see Jalis taunt get a small range increase or the ability to cast on targets not directly in front of you.

The Ancient Echo change for Ventari is elegantly done. Now they need to do the same for Mallyx's.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Za Shaloc.3908

[Buran.3796]

12 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I mean, you can CLAIM all you like that you don't THINK Vindi has much to balance. I think you should take some of your own advice, read the patch notes and convince yourself what you think is not inline with what Anet is doing though. 

   Is not about thinking, but about how things are factually going.

   When CmC revealed the EoD specs in summer 2021 I though there were brain power in the design, but wasn't sure about the output. When CmC was rised to main designer for PvP after the initial rollercoaster which was the EoD release, I had some hopes.

   But that hopes vanished. We are 11 months into EoD and the balance patches keep being a total roller coaster: 2-3 specs overperform, the rest are mostly garbage, each 3 months the coin flips and that could swap some spec but the overall situation remains the same.

   I see what ANet TRIES, but they are failing. In part is due lack of testing (they should have weeks of PTR prior to any major patch release as many games do, just to prevent bugs, exploits and unbalances, and specially due they don't have enough work force to properly scan the interactions of their changes). 

   But the thing is not what they are trying or how should they pre-test, the thing is what they are delivering, and they are failing, badly. I don't remeber The Civilized Gentleman, The Abjured or any other top PvP guild running a monolithic single-spec roster a whole MAT. This is not about what I think, this is just a reality check: they aren't being efficient at the task of delivering a well though, roughly balanced, fair experience for most of players. I see the new patch and I wonder "why are nerfing specs which have been out of the meta since the summer"? Why you re-introduce precast for mantras in PvP for Firebrand, arguably one of the worst spec in that game mode?  The patch is full of random things that will collide between themselves, and since they lack workforce to test it or open trial realm for beta testing will deliver bugs and unexpected interactions. 

   

[Yasai.3549]

As someone who dabbles in Power Rene: cool!

 

As someone who Revs in general: wow that's a whole lot of nothing.

 

I was hoping for some Hammer love.

[Infusion.7149]

The notes actually do not mention the Orders from Above improvement, so here is the link to the slide:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1727195354?t=0h53m18s

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Is not about thinking, but about how things are factually going.

   When CmC revealed the EoD specs in summer 2021 I though there were brain power in the design, but wasn't sure about the output. When CmC was rised to main designer for PvP after the initial rollercoaster which was the EoD release, I had some hopes.

   But that hopes vanished. We are 11 months into EoD and the balance patches keep being a total roller coaster: 2-3 specs overperform, the rest are mostly garbage, each 3 months the coin flips and that could swap some spec but the overall situation remains the same.

   I see what ANet TRIES, but they are failing. In part is due lack of testing (they should have weeks of PTR prior to any major patch release as many games do, just to prevent bugs, exploits and unbalances, and specially due they don't have enough work force to properly scan the interactions of their changes). 

   But the thing is not what they are trying or how should they pre-test, the thing is what they are delivering, and they are failing, badly. I don't remeber The Civilized Gentleman, The Abjured or any other top PvP guild running a monolithic single-spec roster a whole MAT. This is not about what I think, this is just a reality check: they aren't being efficient at the task of delivering a well though, roughly balanced, fair experience for most of players. I see the new patch and I wonder "why are nerfing specs which have been out of the meta since the summer"? Why you re-introduce precast for mantras in PvP for Firebrand, arguably one of the worst spec in that game mode?  The patch is full of random things that will collide between themselves, and since they lack workforce to test it or open trial realm for beta testing will deliver bugs and unexpected interactions. 

   

How things are factually going:

1. Anet ruins Vindicator identity by giving it two evades

2. Chaos ensues due to the fact that the whole spec is designed around a SINGLE evade

3. Now that Vindicator is JUST a Revenant with access to three legends instead of two, Anet has nothing but problems balancing it while trying to maintain any sense of Vindicator espec uniqueness ... for TWO patches now. 

No amount of testing can change the fact that what we have here now is a unique Revenant spec that has access to three legends that any reasonable person can see is excessive when looking at other typical Revenant builds. In a conceptual way, having 3 legend access was less a problem when there was a single dodge, even if that's not an entirely equivalent trade off. 

Why are Anet nerfing specs that aren't in the meta? because being meta has never been an exclusive qualifier for class changes. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Yasai.3549]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

How things are factually going:

1. Anet ruins Vindicator identity by giving it two evades

2. Chaos ensues due to the fact that the whole spec is designed around a SINGLE evade

3. Now that Vindicator is JUST a Revenant with access to three legends instead of two, Anet has nothing but problems balancing it while trying to maintain any sense of Vindicator espec uniqueness ... for TWO patches now. 

No amount of testing can change the fact that what we have here now is a unique Revenant spec that has access to three legend skill bars, which any reasonable person can see is excessive when looking at other typical Revenant builds.

Why are Anet nerfing specs that aren't in the meta? because being meta has never been an exclusive qualifier for class changes. 

I really hate how they aren't doing anything like Herald where they alter how the new Legend interacts with Energy. 

I'm already kinda disappointed with Renegade being just another Energy Dump style Legend, but now we have Vindicator which is like YO IMA DUMP ENERGY, WITH MORE ENERGY DUMP. 

Whoever designed Vindicator has no imagination, just like their choice for the Legend for Vindicator. If the idea here was Combat dodge, could have done with one Legend bar, but put more interesting mechanics to the Combat dodge. Could have made it something like oh weapon skills do not cost Energy anymore but Combat Dodging will cost Energy instead. Combat Dodging to break immobilizes will consume an Endurance bar. Something like that you know? 

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I really hate how they aren't doing anything like Herald where they alter how the new Legend interacts with Energy. 

I'm already kinda disappointed with Renegade being just another Energy Dump style Legend, but now we have Vindicator which is like YO IMA DUMP ENERGY, WITH MORE ENERGY DUMP. 

Whoever designed Vindicator has no imagination, just like their choice for the Legend for Vindicator. If the idea here was Combat dodge, could have done with one Legend bar, but put more interesting mechanics to the Combat dodge. Could have made it something like oh weapon skills do not cost Energy anymore but Combat Dodging will cost Energy instead. Combat Dodging to break immobilizes will consume an Endurance bar. Something like that you know? 

Well, I would say that whoever CHANGED Vindicator to its current form has no imagination. I would argue it takes LOT of imagination to give a Revenant espec a single dodge with access to 3 legends. That's a radical departure from the standard spec concept we have seen in the game. 

The way I see it ... there is no room for Anet to do anything interesting on Vindicator without breaking it even more unless there is some significant limitation introduced to it ... like a single dodge. 

I mean, dodging already consumes endurance bar so ADDING an effect to dodging for the same endurance bar consumption just breaks it worse. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Yasai.3549]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, I would say that whoever CHANGED Vindicator to its current form has no imagination. I would argue it takes LOT of imagination to give a Revenant espec a single dodge with access to 3 legends. That's a radical departure from the standard spec concept we have seen in the game. 

The way I see it ... there is no room for Anet to do anything interesting on Vindicator without breaking it even more unless there is some significant limitation introduced to it ... like a single dodge. 

I mean, dodging already consumes endurance bar so ADDING an effect to dodging for the same endurance bar consumption just breaks it worse. 

Honestly don't even feel good with the whole 3 Legends thing. I imagine the concept was to have something like a "juggle the two legends" sort of deal. 

I would have imagined something like: The energy bar colour changes the more you use one side and it will be locked out once you use too much and then you have to switch the legend form to use the other side. But I guess that's already too much like Revenant's current playstyle so they heck it and just shoved 2 legends into one. 

[Esufer.8762]

they certainly are the patch notes of all time

i will continue jumping

and i will continue pumping

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

Was hoping vindi would get some fixes to underwater combat and targeting issue fixes but oh well.

[Buran.3796]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

3. Now that Vindicator is JUST a Revenant with access to three legends instead of two,

   It doesn't work that way since swapping from orange to blue (and viceversa) doesn't provide any energy, and our "two" new legends have things like two heals of 714 HP each one, not to mention that Archemorus skills are oriented towards dealing damage whereas Kurzik skills are team support, so whatever gear you chose they don't synergize well amongst them. Dps Vindicators run Archemorus + Shiro or Jalis and support Vindicators run Ventari + Viktor. 

   The problem with Vindi was never having a second row of legend skills (otherwise Eles having 4 attunements would have been impossible to balance) since they consume too much energy for a single swap, but things as changing the evade properties, which already did cause heavy problems in the Daredevil and Mirage. That and having two unspiring third-row human heroes from Cantha when we already have the superior Shiro to entirely cover that crap.

   So, wasted opportunity in terms of lore and a mess with the basic mechanics of the game just because someone had a bonner with FF XIV's Dragoon gameplay design...

[Polar.8634]

i used damage dodge anyways, it's so good synergy with battle scars. But generally, they`d better nerf middle traits for endurance generation decrease if they wanted to decrease chill spam.

for pve its nice they touched rene, now it is more in line with other alacdps, as now less diviner pieces needed.

also gonna try dragon rene in wvw now after brutal momentum buff

[ArthurDent.9538]

51 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

i used damage dodge anyways, it's so good synergy with battle scars. But generally, they`d better nerf middle traits for endurance generation decrease if they wanted to decrease chill spam.

for pve its nice they touched rene, now it is more in line with other alacdps, as now less diviner pieces needed.

also gonna try dragon rene in wvw now after brutal momentum buff

They can't nerf the middle tier of traits anymore as they already basically at the point where they don't do anything.

[Buran.3796]

34 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

They can't nerf the middle tier of traits anymore as they already basically at the point where they don't do anything.

  Yep. Also: is funny how no one was running the damage jump when they released the Vindi with a 150 endurance cost (and no stackable dodge) so everyone instead was using the heal/barrier one. Then they nerfed the heal/barrier so everyone moved to the chill/boons jump, because the other two were pointless. And now that option A and C are bad, they will nerf option B, which isn't great at all: is just that everything else is bad. And is the same with almost every class now.

   The thing is: at one point it has to work and be fun to some extent, otherwise people just stop playing garbage builds. And that's what happened in 2022 with PvP: 0 new content and almost every spec burned to ashes, players fled and the remaining face the silver vs plat low pop paradise...

[wolfer.7945]

17 hours ago, oubee.9520 said:

Salvation Vindi roamer dead now lol

In PvP,    PvE and WvW are unchanged.