Mesmer Feb 3 preview

[ascii.1369]

9 minutes ago, Ellon.4316 said:

I have trouble placing these changes, i don't get why a stationary AoE glamours should give superspeed while the more instant cast skills of manipulation now give aegis. When i want to escape with blink or mass-invis superspeed is nice, when bunkering down with some stationary glamour skill i probably want aegis. 😕

Not sure we're talking PvE or PvP/WvW here, but for the latter I think it's ok. Superspeed wasn't that usefull anyway and glamour will not see much use even after the changes. So I'd rather have my aegis on skills I actually use.

[Mell.4873]

6 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

No, "we" got reversions of nerfs that happened for no good reason and the same removal of CDR traits that are happening to everyone.

These are the actual buffs:
Time Warp - now superspeed allies and chill enemies, PVP/WVW cooldown dropped to 75s
Egotism - 10% damage bonus in PVP/WVW

Echo of Memory/Deja Vu - immediate summon of phantasm ; spawns even if no block

Tides of Time - catching wave will recharge skill after exiting continuum shift , (PVE) increased might stack to 8

Well of Action - might and fury on final pulse and not just superspeed   <-- still backloaded...

Well of Senility - now dazes

Oh and Blink got shadow nerfed and I'm very concerned mantra of distraction and time warp are going to be used as justification for nerfs later to diversion and probably glamours in general.

Okay...... but they are still buffs.

I'm mean any change inevitably changes how something is being used. Mantra of Pain is probably a nerf to power builds but it's not like everyone was using that outside the Golem. I used Phantasmal Defender on my Chronomancer instead of Manta of Pain simply due to being able to apply the unique Condition effect Taunt in PvE (75 breakbar a second)

[Ellon.4316]

5 minutes ago, ascii.1369 said:

Not sure we're talking PvE or PvP/WvW here, but for the latter I think it's ok. Superspeed wasn't that usefull anyway and glamour will not see much use even after the changes. So I'd rather have my aegis on skills I actually use.

PvE, and agree that aegis is always nice to have.  For me the change just doesn't make sense thematically.

[Varis.5467]

12 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

 

Buffs are a shitshow and bad? 

Mell, you really gotta look at things holistically. Think about how each of these 'buffs' functions in the CURRENT STATE of the game. 

 

Let's say there are issues with A, B and C, buffing X, Y and Z doesnt fix anything. 

 

These buffs are bad because they DO NOT address the underlying issues of mesmer. 

[Mell.4873]

9 minutes ago, ascii.1369 said:

First things first, where the kitten is our second dodge. Given the power creep that happened since mirage was released I doubt giving the scond dodge back would make mirage op by any means. It might be on the stronger side, but so what? Catalyst would still crush it with ease.

Yeah, honestly Virtuoso has replaced Mirage in most instanced (maybe not WvW). Simply due the fact it has so much Distortion.

The only argument i can see is the fact that Dodging means Ambushes in PvP but they could put a cooldown on it and call it a day.

[Junkpile.7439]

Mantra of pain better give some serious might to replace my lost 5% of damage. It makes class even more boring because you don't need to use mantra in burst combo. 🤦‍♂️

[Narrenwinter.2637]

Very pleased with these changes overall. However, some suggestions:

 

Well of Senility & Well of Calamity:

Maybe you could change these so that they apply their boons on the first pulse and the dmg/conditions on all pulses? This would remove the big limitations these skills are having.

 

Mirage: Just give us back our second dodge already 🙂 if it turns out to be completely bonkers, just remove it again. Another solution would be to implement a unique Mirage F5-Shatter skill, that enters Mirage Cloak and/or generates a Sand Mirror. Then the "second dodge" for mirage will have an easily adjustable cooldown, while still giving the Mirage more access to ambush skills.

 

Core Mesmer: Persistence of Memory (Illusion Novice Trait): Now that you got rid of [Protected Phantasms], this trait is even more obsolete than before. Please consider reworking this trait.

 

 

[Mell.4873]

3 minutes ago, Varis.5467 said:

Mell, you really gotta look at things holistically. Think about how each of these 'buffs' functions in the CURRENT STATE of the game. 

 

Let's say there are issues with A, B and C, buffing X, Y and Z doesnt fix anything. 

 

These buffs are bad because they DO NOT address the underlying issues of mesmer. 

Okay good luck not playing a class that is being played especially in WvW a lot. I mean it is Chronomancer but currently it is dominating with its many Zerg engagement skills.

[Varis.5467]

Just now, Mell.4873 said:

Okay good luck not playing a class that is being played especially in WvW a lot. I mean it is Chronomancer but currently it is dominating with its many Zerg engagement skills.

Many people have explained this dead horse of a topic in other threads before and I am sure you are no stranger to them. Feel free to refer to them. 

[ascii.1369]

Just now, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah, honestly Virtuoso has replaced Mirage in most instanced (maybe not WvW). Simply due the fact it has so much Distortion.

The only argument i can see is the fact that Dodging means Ambushes in PvP but they could put a cooldown on it and call it a day.

Yeah, or just nerf ambushes. I don't get why that wasn't the fix from the beginning. Mirage had too much power in its dodge, but instead of nerfing that, they nerfed everything else in the kit. And then eventually decided to remove a dodge, without reverting the nerfs.

[Ellon.4316]

Just for reference, watched back the stream to get some more info about mantra's. The cooldowns outside of recharge rate are quite interesting. Didn't check if the heal/damage numbers changed

• Mantra of recovery (heal), 10s cooldown. 20s count recharge
• Mantra of resolve (condi cleanse), 20s cooldown. 24s count recharge
• Mantra of concentration (stab), 15s cooldown. 45s count recharge. Channel gives 4stack of stability for 5s and 5s of aegis
• Mantra of distraction (cc), 12s cooldown. 24s count recharge
• Mantra of pain (dps), 1s !!! cooldown. 10s count recharge. Channel gives 8 stacks of might for 5 seconds

This actually makes mantra of pain and concentration pretty big for boon supports.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Ellon.4316

[Mungo Zen.9364]

15 minutes ago, Ellon.4316 said:

Just for reference, watched back the stream to get some more info about mantra's. The cooldowns outside of recharge rate are quite interesting. Didn't check if the heal/damage numbers changed

• Mantra of recovery (heal), 10s cooldown. 20s count recharge
• Mantra of resolve (condi cleanse), 20s cooldown. 24s count recharge
• Mantra of concentration (stab), 15s cooldown. 45s count recharge. Channel gives 4stack of stability for 5s and 5s of aegis
• Mantra of distraction (cc), 12s cooldown. 24s count recharge
• Mantra of pain (dps), 1s !!! cooldown. 10s count recharge. Channel gives 8 stacks of might for 5 seconds

This actually makes mantra of pain and concentration pretty big for boon supports.

According to the Wiki those are basically the same.  Scroll down and below Trivia it shows the original iterations.

[Blackelk.3784]

Mantra change is bad... Whoever thought of once again reverting skill changes that are good and made combat more fluid should feel bad.....

[akipappi.3917]

(pve wise) Im actually looking forward to these changes. I really wanted old Mantras back and Glamour traits. I dont see why people think it slows down the gameplay personally because what I expect from Mesmer is the certain ebb and flow which is dictated by being reactive like in GW1 with some jank and weird effects. Being unique was always the strong part of Guild Wars. I would have preferred to have regen and aegis on Glamours I dont really understand superspeed but Im overall happy to see some old stuff coming back. 

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah, honestly Virtuoso has replaced Mirage in most instanced (maybe not WvW). Simply due the fact it has so much Distortion.

The only argument i can see is the fact that Dodging means Ambushes in PvP but they could put a cooldown on it and call it a day.

They just have a personal bias against some people who play/like Mirage and I guess are too unprofessional to get past it IMO.

[Hot Boy.7138]

Mirage is it for me. If there is nothing worthwhile to report about mirages, i'll just play other games until then. I was hoping today would be the day I get excited to return to the game... but nope. 

[ascii.1369]

35 minutes ago, akipappi.3917 said:

(pve wise) Im actually looking forward to these changes. I really wanted old Mantras back and Glamour traits. I dont see why people think it slows down the gameplay

Well, the "pve wise" is probably the crucial piece here. I am one of the people who strongly dislike the mantra change and my guess would be that most people, like me, complain because of what it does to PvP/WvW.

[moutzaheadin.4029]

Bad changes if you play a mirage. 
 

your already slow as there is no 25% speed trait anywhere.

 

so you must take a speed rune. Unless you enjoy dragging your face through broken glass.

 

now you lost superspeed on mirror,arcane thievery, blink and mass invis. Replaced with ageis. 

 

Plus you lost the cooldown reduction for all them skills. Which any and all of them are extremely useful for a mirage.

 

If they wanted to do this without gutting mirage it would have made more sence to add glamour skills get the ageis buff, Leaving master of manipulation alone. 

The mantra “change” is a revert from a year ago. Wtf.

 

they don’t care about mirage or the people that play it. 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by moutzaheadin.4029

[Xenesis.6389]

No one uses wells because it's backloaded, even the well trait to heal, only the alacrity trait triggers at the first pulse. It's ok for pve, but not for wvw when you're constantly moving in fights. Not difficult to understand this.

Same goes for Time warp, why would you put pulsing superspeed on a static ground aoe, do you want players to run out of it? Maybe change it to be a one time pulse with full affects, and not be a pulsing 5sec aoe?

Mantra's will forever be clunky.

Manipulations is whatever, just another aegis spam to hand out to zergs. But hey thanks for killing superspeed off this entire line so you could stick it on an elite any one barely uses in specific situations. Meanwhile give willbenders even more mobility. GG Anet, don't even play mesmers.

Shield gets another rework in 6 months.

Ele staff gets work.

Ele dagger gets work.

Weaver sword gets work.

Engineer pistol gets work.

Guard hammer gets work.

Necro dagger gets work.

Necro warhorn gets work.

Renegade shortbow gets work.

Deadeye rifle gets work.

Warrior sword gets work.

Warrior mace gets work.

Bladesworn gets work.

Mesmers...... yeah lets mess with the shield again! smh.

So yeah, meh.

 

P.S Where's the cooldown reduction for Arcane Thievery and Blink? 🥴

Edited February 5, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[Varis.5467]

 @Cal Cohen.2358 it's time to look at mesmer - not just mirage - properly and address the actual issues. 

 

There are plenty of good suggestions and relevant concerns in this thread alone; plenty more if your team would look at the rest of the forum. 

 

There are many players here who are  inactive or not very vocal on the forum until this preview, and the majority of them agrees little to none of the upcoming balance are meaningful to the actual problems of the class.

 

This is a wake up call for the balance and skill team to address the class properly and stop sweeping what needs to be done under the rug. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Varis.5467

[Mell.4873]

24 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

No one uses wells because it's backloaded, even the well trait to heal, only the alacrity trait triggers at the first pulse. It's ok for pve, but not for wvw when you're constantly moving in fights. Not difficult to understand this.

Same goes for Time warp, why would you put pulsing superspeed on a static ground aoe, do you want players to run out of it? Maybe change it to be a one time pulse with full affects, and not be a pulsing 5sec aoe?.

Have you ever operated siege equipment in WvW, Chronomancer is about the only Elite that reliably provide Alacrity to them to speed up their cooldowns. 

Also have you never stacked before Engagement? Sure the final pulse is hard to land but the Alacrity is fine. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

14 minutes ago, Varis.5467 said:

There many players here, many who are not active on the forum until this preview. The majority of them agrees little to none of the upcoming balance are meaningful to the actual problems of the class.

 

This is a wake up call for the balance and skill team to address the class properly and stop sweeping what needs to be done under the rug. 

I think it's more players who don't play the game comming to look at the patch notes. Most people in game well... are playing Gw2.

I mean I only came to look at the patch notes becouse I was In the Mesmer forum already. Otherwise I would be playing WvW. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Varis.5467]

5 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I think it's more players who don't play the game comming to look at the patch notes. Most people in game well... are playing Gw2.

I mean I only came to look at the patch notes becouse I was In the Mesmer forum already. Otherwise I would be playing WvW. 

Hey if you have a better way or know a more direct avenue to get the message across to the relevant party please do share. 

 

Until then this is one of the only place to offer feedback other than reddit. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Varis.5467

[ascii.1369]

5 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Have you ever operated siege equipment in WvW, Chronomancer is about the only Elite that reliably provide Alacrity to them to speed up there cooldowns. 

Also have you never stacked before Engagement? Sure the final pulse is hard to land but the Alacrity is fine. 

To be fair, I don't think being the alac bot for siege equipment is what most players consider engaging gameplay.

 

And in terms of zerg play, chrono doesn't really shine there compared to other classes. The only reason to bring a chrono is for mesmer shenanigans like portal.

[Mell.4873]

1 minute ago, ascii.1369 said:

To be fair, I don't think being the alac bot for siege equipment is what most players consider engaging gameplay.

 

And in terms of zerg play, chrono doesn't really shine there compared to other classes. The only reason to bring a chrono is for mesmer shenanigans like portal.

That is very popular though, I have seen many Chronomancer players port small organised Zergs into unsuspecting victims (normally myself).