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Mesmer Feb 3 preview


Infusion.7149

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16 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

While I agree, Blink has been a Mesmer staple and probably is the most used Stunbreaker for the class overall. It will still be used without the CD reduction. 

That's why it would make sense to leave the cd reduction where it is. Removing the CD reduction made sense for thief utilities, because for them the choice there was very binary; either the skill was played with the trait or it was unplayable altogether. Mesmer manipulations, tho? Playable with and without trait, it just feels a little better if you take the trait but it's not mandatory; you get slightly more QoL if you do, at the price of the chaos storm. RN you can't invest in the CD reduction anymore: your best mobility tool has a very punishing cd and you're stuck with that. Not a fan.

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50 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

That's why it would make sense to leave the cd reduction where it is. Removing the CD reduction made sense for thief utilities, because for them the choice there was very binary; either the skill was played with the trait or it was unplayable altogether. Mesmer manipulations, tho? Playable with and without trait, it just feels a little better if you take the trait but it's not mandatory; you get slightly more QoL if you do, at the price of the chaos storm. RN you can't invest in the CD reduction anymore: your best mobility tool has a very punishing cd and you're stuck with that. Not a fan.

The fact that blink is playable with or without traiting just shows how vital the skill is as its about the only core mobility skill mesmer gets outside bursts or swiftness or traited super speed (traited isnt rly what I would count) People use blink because its the only way Mes has to escape many situations. That said, compared to others I wouldnt say its great or the best and the cooldown is pretty long.

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5 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Mantra changes are great. I won't elaborate further

 

If you think casting for 2 seconds just to remove a few conditions when most other classes have skills that can do the same with almost none or actually no cast time is acceptable then you shouldn't even be allowed to post.

Edited by Levetty.1279
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6 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

 

If you think casting for 2 seconds just to remove a few conditions when most other classes  can do it with almost none or actually none cast time is acceptable then you shouldn't even be allowed to post.

 

OUCH 2 second channeling? thats pretty bad actually.

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12 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

If you think casting for 2 seconds just to remove a few conditions when most other classes  can do it with almost none or actually none cast time is acceptable then you shouldn't even be allowed to post.

MANTRA OF RESOLVE
No charging mechanic = 24s cd to cleanse 3 conditions
Charging mechanic: 12s cd to cleanse 6 conditions + 13 cleansed on mantra loaded

MANTRA OF DISTRACTION
No charging mechanic: 24s cd for 1s daze
Charging mechanic: 12s cd for 1s daze, 2 charges. Also reduces cd on your F3

I'm not even getting started on the other mantras, but for the love of God don't try to pass halving the cd on mantras while also doubling the charges as a nerf. You now have to charge them, ok, you do that as you kite for 2 seconds.

Edited by Terrorhuz.4695
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Just now, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Literally mantra of recovery is 1.6k hp every 24s now, it went up to 6k in the same time frame, I have no clue how you could pass it as a nerf but whatever. Stay in silver.

"Hey guys just don't interrupt me while I spend half an hour casting my healing skill"

Yeah, you definitely don't actually play the game.

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1 minute ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

We live in a world where kiting isn't a thing and mesmer doesn't have stealth, apparently.

Guess you are fine with every other classes healing skills, stun breaks and condi cleanses being given massive casting times for no reason?

 

Oh what's that, no? That is a bad idea? Just Mesmer needs these terrible skills? How weird. I'm sure it's also a coincidence you don't normally post here.

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Just now, Levetty.1279 said:

Guess you are fine with every other classes healing skills, stun breaks and condi cleanses being given massive casting times for no reason?

You charge the mantras, then they become instacast. Loading 2s when you're kiting is absolutely doable, and has been what mesmer mains have been doing from release to a couple years ago, and post patch mantra of distraction is going to become the best interrupt tool in the game. I don't post here because this place is dead, but I've been playing nothing but mesmer in pvp for the past 6 years so yeah, do what you want for other classes but mantras being the ugly brothers of shouts was bad and I'm glad it's gone. See you in game, where I'll use the mantras because they are good.

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OK both of you calm it down, I've seen you both around since the old forums.
Levetty you do have a point about a 2s cast being easy to interrupt but fortunately this game is 99% idiots who can't even interrupt 1s heals and get confused by clones.
Terrorhuz is also right about it being less of an issue if you kite and LoS properly and if needed you can stealth or distort to finish a cast. Also the recharging mechanic is a straight up "buff" to mesmer mantras as they had shockingly bad count recharges and by consuming them all and having half that as the cool down to charge it's effectively reduced mantra recharge by something like 30% in some cases.

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4 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

OK both of you calm it down, I've seen you both around since the old forums.
Levetty you do have a point about a 2s cast being easy to interrupt but fortunately this game is 99% idiots who can't even interrupt 1s heals and get confused by clones.
Terrorhuz is also right about it being less of an issue if you kite and LoS properly and if needed you can stealth or distort to finish a cast. Also the recharging mechanic is a straight up "buff" to mesmer mantras as they had shockingly bad count recharges and by consuming them all and having half that as the cool down to charge it's effectively reduced mantra recharge by something like 30% in some cases.

And yet the current mantras are 100x better because they actually work with how the game plays.

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On 2/5/2023 at 4:35 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

I don't think that boon rip is thematic to Time Warp and Arenanet will remake skills just to fit naming (see the terribly named Well of Senility). The superspeed added on was sort of a stretch already , obviously chill affects cooldowns and quickness / slow make sense.

The Protected Phantasms trait swap wasn't a bad one, that was hardly used. Feedback, null field, portal, and veil are all glamours and typically run in WVW. If you run inspiration with the new Temporal Enchanter (resistance, superspeed) and domination traitline (for boon rip) then you will be able to keep the boon rip aspect but have ally healing beyond just from wells.

A full WvW "support" in the overused Minstrel gear would then probably be domination, inspiration (with either restorative illusions or the new temporal enchanter), chrono with Vicious Expression for added boon rip and Illusionary Inspiration (or Blurred Inscriptions if using signets). The current meta build runs Illusions for shatter recharge reduction and ammo on Split Second (shatter skill 1) to trigger additional boon rip via Shattered Concentration in the domination line so you trade all that for superspeed and actual healing.

Utility options would then be well of eternity / signet of the ether / maybe Mantra of Recovery if the stated ally heal is large enough, null field, mantra of concentration (600 range now), veil/feedback/portal, grav well. I know people run illusion of life but unless you plan on people dying and then actually being able to get a kill or getting hard ressed in a safer spot it doesn't help.

I suspect the change to Master of Manipulation is to make the manipulation skills (such as mirror or arcane thievery) more useful in PVE as that is where party aegis would be far stronger than superspeed. That's the only explanation I can think of. The change removes the ability to use mass invis and blink for superspeed in PVP/WvW roaming scenarios. It will be interesting to see how this would compare with the alternative aegis from the inspiration line as signets can also apply aegis indirectly. Since signets and manipulations compete for spots on the utility bar perhaps chaos builds gaining access to aegis is an enabler for condi boon builds.

Other wvw things for minstrel builds 

Mimic + null field was a better choice of boon rip utilities than senility + null field. With the addition of daze, senility surpasses mimic in raw numbers, even more so if you get an interrupt for sigil of absorption.  And it allows you to swap out eternity for recovery while keeping up alacrity uptime. 

Edited by Daniel Handler.4816
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If they really can't see that people are somewhat annoyed by NOT having to press that last charge in most scenarios, what if we could actually DECIDE when to channel?

For Example

  • Right now:
    • Mantra of Pain
      • 2 charges, 1s cd between each, 10s cd per charge
  • After:
    • Mantra of Pain
      • 2 charges, 1s cd between each, 10s per¬†charge
      • The mantra regular effect will be fired with a simple click, BUT
      • As long as you have a spare charge, you can HOLD the¬†mantra skill key to initiate a channeling.
      • If the channeling is successful, you'll grant might to your party.

I know it's a kinda weird mechanic, but I would definitely prefer it to having to revert to the old one, since it seems Anet does feel we need channeling being a mantra thing.

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On 2/5/2023 at 11:15 AM, Fallub.9103 said:

I really don't see why this change was necessary. These changes make Mantras really clunky to use - at least Pain should still be usable without preparing it first, or otherwise it uses its instant-dps capability completely. I am very disappointed with this change. 

At least give Mesmers (or at least Pain) the same PvE auto-recast the Firebrand gets.

regarding mantra of pain, from a pve dps standpoint it wont affect ur dps in a noticable way (2 additional casts over the duration of a fight in cs at the start of the fight isnt going to be noticable), just use one charge, and leave the second one to not have to recast the whole mantra - pretty much identical dps output.

in competetive, ull get might for prepping the mantra which u dont have now, and u can still use 2 charges quickly for bursting. currently after doing  that u have to wait 10 seconds for every additional charge, and if the fight lasts this long ur most likely loosing, given how mesmer in pvp works. after the change/revert of mantras ull be able to recast mantra (while stealthed for example) and get BOTH charges instantly, while gaining might - this is a buff, not a nerf.

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So let me get this straight: these changes are basically just reverting Mantras back to 2017, bringing back half of Temporal Enchanter, slapping extra Might and CC on Chrono's kittenest skills and giving them a kiss on the forehead with some bare minimum QoL?

I love it. Best Mesmer patch in years.

I get that channelling a Mantra for 2 seconds feels like a long time but, it's literally quicker to just burn your charges and get the channel off cooldown than it is to wait for the flip to recharge. Plus you get a little treat when you do it. There's more gameplay in having that as an option, and if 2 seconds is too long for you to not be pressing other buttons then just pretend it's any other skill and don't spend that last charge. Don't worry PvE Mantra of Pain enjoyers, your 5% DPS is safe.

Temporal Enchanter is pretty niche, but it's more generally useful than Protected Phantasms which I'm pretty sure only has any purpose if you pair it with Persistence of Memory? Which is a very funny build, don't get me wrong, but I'm like 95% sure nobody plays it. (If you do, you have my respect and I'm sorry for your loss.) We've got a bunch of dead traits which feel like they should've been buried when the Phantasm rework happened, so hopefully Persistence of Memory follows, and Phantasmal Fury gets made baseline so DPS gamers can escape Duelling jail. (Or at least try out that cool sounding Pistol trait maybe, Duelling jail isn't so bad.) Temporal Enchanter seems like a cute part of the WvW toolkit for the most part, dropping a Feedback or Null Field and bravely running away would go alright.

I'm unironically excited for Might and Fury on Well of Action, as it was the most obvious thing missing from any sort of Alacrity Chrono and after the last Well 'rework' my expectations are rock bottom. Not that it solves all of Alac Chrono's problems, but it's a step in the right direction -- pretty sure as things stand re. Chrono's ability to Might stack, best we can do is like 10 stacks, maaaybe 15 if we're in full Harriers and CS just right. ToT going up to 8 stacks would push that to 16-24, and with any luck Well of Action will get us over the 'minimum requirement for dedicated boon support' line. Of course, it's on the final pulse of the well, so Chrono will remain the most masochistic way to try and support your party, but it works in theory! Well of Senility's still uh, not great, but at least it has a plan now; slow them down for a few seconds then CC them. Nice!

No notes on the QoL for Shield, it rocks. Being able to click a button and get a phantasm sounds awesome, can't wait.

Feels weird to be genuinely pleased by what is more like a balance un-date than update, but that's where we're at. I'd love to see the team support from Well of Action and All's Well That Ends Well shifted from the payoff of the skill to the pulsing effect for reliability's sake, but I don't actually have any complaints about what we're getting, it's a massive improvement.

Edited by Delta.1526
realized i wasn't salty for once, edited accordingly
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Here is the problem with Mantras on mesmer, the fact that mesmers dont have any real form of sustainable stability makes it extremely punishing to cast mantras. For those who say mesmer has stealth/distortion there are classes out there that can insta-cast or slotted traits to give similar if not better effects then what mesmer mantras can provide. 

Back then when Mantra's cast time were removed people were pissed due to traits not functioning properly because it required the mantras to cast, as well as bonus effects were gone. This does not mean people were happy with Mantras to begin with. Mesmer is a class that is easily punished especially at this state. Back then before the Mantra "rework" mesmers were in a better state then they are now.

Again ANET this isn't a new game, this isn't beta testing where you decide to remove one thing at whim then decide to put it back couple years later. At this point you are just treating the game like a GW3 startup to see what works and what doesn't. 

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22 hours ago, Delta.1526 said:

So let me get this straight: these changes are basically just reverting Mantras back to 2017, bringing back half of Temporal Enchanter, slapping extra Might and CC on Chrono's kittenest skills and giving them a kiss on the forehead with some bare minimum QoL?

I love it. Best Mesmer patch in years.

I get that channelling a Mantra for 2 seconds feels like a long time but, it's literally quicker to just burn your charges and get the channel off cooldown

No.

----Point

2 second cast time just to be able to use a Mantra... not actually use it hut be able to use it.....  absolutely nothing quick about it. What if you want to use more than 1 Mantra? Eeeks.

 

----Point

Easy to test in WvW... play an asura. Duel someone. During combat Summon a golem... 2 second cast time. Takes fricking forever and is easy "af" to interrupt. I tried it once to see what it was like.  Never again.

 

----Point

If I can interrupt a thief casting a 1 second hide in shadows, then 2 seconds is sinfully easy.. 

 

----Question

Can you move or are you stuck in one spot? Stuck in One spot is a death sentence just to not be able to actually use the mantras. 

 

I use two mantras for two reasons.

Pain, Distraction. 

(A) To use up the enemy aegis and/or apply vulnerability. 

(B) To use up the enemy aegis and/or daze.

 

Popping aegis is my main priority though.

 

Having to use a 2 second channel for each of 2 mantras when I should be dodging..... yikes. Do you want to sign the death certificate and my toe tag now or later? 

 

Much of the time I am fighting multiple opponents.  Being forced to channel mantras is ridiculously stupid. 

 

When people say "kite"... Rofl. 

How? Like literally... how? You cannot.

Melee will stay in range with you. They have insta cast closing abilities.  Many have increased speed.....

 or pets/mechs.

You cannot cast a 2 second Mantra and expect to kite that....

Ranged can just stand in one spot and pick you off with ease.

 

So to tell someone to "kite" is plain naive. 

 

So I do not like nor appreciate this change.  

 

 

Edit" Am I going to have to play a clunky bunker build mesmer instead of a fun build mesmer? "

Edited by Jitters.9401
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8 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Edit" Am I going to have to play a clunky bunker build mesmer instead of a fun build mesmer? "

I prefer my past fun mesmers builds with 2 sec cast mantras who did something than my current mesmer build mantra who look like every other skills on CD who didn't bring new gameplays.

Mean the core concept of mantras is cast drawback for strong effects. (They destroyed it with FB...) Which is litteraly the way to play hit & run like every burst builds does.

We lived with it even when DD were evrywhere.

About multiple ways to secure cast : out range, LoS, stealth, distortion, CC, aegis now.

Just to reminder that I did exclusively WvW since beginning to 2015 then exclusively PvP.

 

I understand that many people are afraid about it but the more gameplay the game provides, the better IMO.

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21 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Here is the problem with Mantras on mesmer, the fact that mesmers dont have any real form of sustainable stability makes it extremely punishing to cast mantras. For those who say mesmer has stealth/distortion there are classes out there that can insta-cast or slotted traits to give similar if not better effects then what mesmer mantras can provide. 

Back then when Mantra's cast time were removed people were pissed due to traits not functioning properly because it required the mantras to cast, as well as bonus effects were gone. This does not mean people were happy with Mantras to begin with. Mesmer is a class that is easily punished especially at this state. Back then before the Mantra "rework" mesmers were in a better state then they are now.

Again ANET this isn't a new game, this isn't beta testing where you decide to remove one thing at whim then decide to put it back couple years later. At this point you are just treating the game like a GW3 startup to see what works and what doesn't. 

I mean no offence but what is this then?

Bountiful Disillusionment -> Gain stability when you use a Shatter skill. Gain an additional boon based on which Shatter is used.

 

I use this on all my support builds, except Alacrity Mirage.

Edited by Mell.4873
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