ANET doesn't play their own game

[Kstyle.5829]

Waiting 4 months to finally make sweeping changes is a horrible way to balance the game.  It's just a rotation of nerffing whatever is most OP and then buffing random classes that are already B tier and pretty good.  It's really obvious you guys see this game as dead and just have it on life support.  I mean you say as little as possible so maybe people will assume you guys know what you're talking about, but some things just make no sense at all.

 

For two or three patches in a row you guys saying "we want to make scrapper a cool guy bruiser class!" and then you buff defensive talents that you must give up offensive ones for.   Right now scrapper is a joke because the damage is REALLY LOW.  The people in the top 100 who play scrapper all run a full PVE DPS build going explosives tools scrapper and taking every single percent strike damage modifier to still become a D tier DPS class.  The problem is DAMAGE.  If you are a bunker with ZERO DAMAGE then people just ignore you.  It's just comical that you guys don't understand that simple concept.   But I get it, nobody cares about scrapper,  that's just me and the 5 people who still play it.

 

Untamed left untouched of course.  S tier but it's not THE class so that's fine right?  We can wait another 4 months to fix untamed.  Just let all the scepter catalyst play untamed for now.  Nerffed vindicator.  Good job.  Still shouldn't have taken 3 months.  Then it looks like you do what you always do, buff a bunch of classes that are already A tier while leaving the bad classes untouched.  Great job.  Buffing willbenders and shout reapers which are already some of the strongest dps classes.  Not going to fix hammer spellbreaker until next patch I guess?   I guess for next 3 or 4 months just avoid dueling those hammer spellbreakers if you don't want to sit in 11.5 second stun.  That's fair and balanced gameplay right there.  

 

With all the sweeping changes you made something else will inevitably become overpowered and be the new scepter catalyst.  What will it be.. hammer willbender?  Who knows, I guess only us within the next few weeks and then ANET will fix it in a few months and leave over 50% of the classes unplayable once again.  

 

I mean is it so hard to just PLAY YOUR OWN GAME.  Maybe talk to some of the top players and get feedback, watch some streams.  What the hell do you pay your staff to do on this game?  It seems like the game is so dead now because if you get into mid gold you're in top 100 so I guess we have maybe 200 or 300 people who still play PVP.  I'm personally done. I'm giving away the last of my stuff and deleting my characters because it's obvious you guys put 1% effort into balancing PVP and I can't let it be something that bothers me anymore.  Caring about this game is like being in denial about someone who's dead.  Best to just get over it and move on.   

Edited February 3, 2023 by Kstyle.5829

[Bast.7253]

I watched the stream wondering if they were going to do anything with Mirage. 

Not even a mention of it. LOL. Not that I really care anymore but wow - I'm pretty sure they addressed every other spec in the game didn't they? Maybe I fast-forwarded through it but I'm pretty sure I didn't see a single mention of the spec in those notes. 

[Kstyle.5829]

4 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

I watched the stream wondering if they were going to do anything with Mirage. 

Not even a mention of it. LOL. Not that I really care anymore but wow - I'm pretty sure they addressed every other spec in the game didn't they? Maybe I fast-forwarded through it but I'm pretty sure I didn't see a single mention of the spec in those notes. 

no ofc not.  I was mainly mad about scrapper but if I post on engineer forums only like 2 ppl will see it.  But yeah mirage has been terrible for a long time too.  It's like their goal is just to have maybe 5 specs we can play.  Just enough to run an actual game.  Who wants to be the untamed, ok you can be the spellbreaker, I'll be the core shout guardian.   That's how they balance the game, based on balancing builds that players made and use and are already established, rather than looking at data and trying to balance everything as a whole (traits, skills, etc) 

They are too dumb to interpret the data they have before them. They just say "oh there's only like 1% of people playing scrapper and mirage so we don't need to worry about those as much.  We need to balance the popular classes."  Not thinking "wait a minute... maybe people dont play those classes because they suck"

Edited February 3, 2023 by Kstyle.5829

[Marxx.5021]

Also no change for scourge to get it back into PvP. Reaper shouts nerfed by reducing range from 600 to melee. Dagger and warhorn changes which will not do anything because they are still trash in PvP.

Cmc knows how to kick necromancer when it is already down. Promote changes as buffs which are either don't change anything or are straight nerfs.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Marxx.5021

[Kstyle.5829]

23 minutes ago, Marxx.5021 said:

Also no change for scourge to get it back into PvP. Reaper shouts nerfed by reducing range from 600 to melee. Dagger and warhorn changes which will not do anything because they are still trash in PvP.

Cmc knows how to kicks necromancer when it is already down. Promote changes as buffs which are either don't change anything or are straight nerfs.

Oh I didn't see that.  Their own words was they want to buff reapers.  It looks to me like their spells werent changed to melee range but just do even more damage now in melee range.  So it's actually a buff I believe.  But I wouldn't be surprised either way. 

I was shocked to hear them still talking about making scrappers a bunker.  It's like they haven't watched one single game of top players.  Nobody plays bunker because they pose no threat.  Their problem is not survival its damage.   You could learn really obvious things and avoid making these mistakes that leave people with their jaw hanging open thinking "wtf"

And yeah I'm sure they just leave scourge to the dogs like scrapper and mirage.  Can't balance everything right?  Just gotta let some specs die, keep the EOD specs good though gotta sell those expansions!

Edited February 3, 2023 by Kstyle.5829

[Bast.7253]

18 minutes ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

no ofc not.  I was mainly mad about scrapper but if I post on engineer forums only like 2 ppl will see it.  But yeah mirage has been terrible for a long time too.  It's like their goal is just to have maybe 5 specs we can play.  Just enough to run an actual game.  Who wants to be the untamed, ok you can be the spellbreaker, I'll be the core shout guardian.   That's how they balance the game, based on balancing builds that players made and use and are already established, rather than looking at data and trying to balance everything as a whole (traits, skills, etc) 

They are too dumb to interpret the data they have before them. They just say "oh there's only like 1% of people playing scrapper and mirage so we don't need to worry about those as much.  We need to balance the popular classes."  Not thinking "wait a minute... maybe people dont play those classes because they suck"

Do they have data? I just assumed it was whatever changes someone suggested to them in discord. 

But yeah, mirage won't get much play when you nuke one of their dodges (insist you're thinking of a work around) and give vindicator back their dodge. Oh, then give Virtuoso even more aegis and distortion. I guess it's different because you don't have people confused by clones (that can easily be los'd or cleaved down anyway). 

Meh. As long as scrapper gets its biannual rework all is good. On the plus side most of these changes were % tweaks as expected but the ones that involved major changes weren't disastrous. 

I don't even play deadeye but now I'm questioning what the point of the deadeye elite even is if it doesn't remove revealed. Who would take that over the other elite skills? 

I'm not sure how I feel about the full counter changes but I THINK they're good? Because as much as people say "just don't attack" that's a lot easier said than done in a team fight or when there's a bunch of passive damage that can cause it to trigger. 
 

[Waffles.5632]

12 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the full counter changes but I THINK they're good? Because as much as people say "just don't attack" that's a lot easier said than done in a team fight or when there's a bunch of passive damage that can cause it to trigger. 
 

 

More people just need to realize that attacking/not attacking doesn't really matter so much as there is a .5 or whatever second delay between when FC absorbs an attack, and when FC then counters the attack. If you save a dodge for that, you can essentially bait the FC out by purposefully attacking and then immediately dodging as soon as your attack lands, which will let you evade the FC.

This change gives everyone counterplay against warrior which is what is sorely needed atm.

It is an extremely good change imo.

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Tnanever.3192]

48 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

I watched the stream wondering if they were going to do anything with Mirage. 

Not even a mention of it. LOL. Not that I really care anymore but wow - I'm pretty sure they addressed every other spec in the game didn't they? Maybe I fast-forwarded through it but I'm pretty sure I didn't see a single mention of the spec in those notes. 

 

They completely left out scourge, which is terrible in PvP.  I don't think I've seen a single PvP scourge player in a week. Clueless patch changes.

[Kodama.6453]

51 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

I watched the stream wondering if they were going to do anything with Mirage. 

Not even a mention of it. LOL. Not that I really care anymore but wow - I'm pretty sure they addressed every other spec in the game didn't they? Maybe I fast-forwarded through it but I'm pretty sure I didn't see a single mention of the spec in those notes. 

They didn't mention holosmith, so there's that.

But engineer in general got the least changes of all classes. Kinda disappointed by that.

[Kstyle.5829]

8 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

They didn't mention holosmith, so there's that.

But engineer in general got the least changes of all classes. Kinda disappointed by that.

it's cuz engineer is the least played.  That's how they actually seem to balance the game... they balance the PVP classes people ply the most.  They even refer to it like "we are going to buff grenade holosmith" like bro... some players made these builds up but this is YOUR game ANET you can make your own builds or buff your own talents.  Don't have to just buff whatever people play in the meta

[Kstyle.5829]

34 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

Meh. As long as scrapper gets its biannual rework all is good. On the plus side most of these changes were % tweaks as expected but the ones that involved major changes weren't disastrous. 

 
 

The only rework it got last year was the one that removed quickness from grandmaster trait in PVP only and replaced it with fury.   Hilarious when every class in the game is broken they just nerf some damage scaling, but when scrapper has 1 stupid flamethrower build people are abusing, they just completely gut scrapper as a whole by removing quickness.  The entire class is balanced around having 100% quickness uptime in PVE but they think just removing it from PVP entirely is a good change 

[Nihil.9817]

dagger 3 was the best thing about dagger main hand on necro and they kitten the interaction into fc which was why you wanted to take dagger mainhand, epic anet w i will appreciate the 2 seconds off of the skill that heals for kitten and deals negative damage at least give it utility, dagger main hand (pve only)

[Kodama.6453]

1 minute ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

The only rework it got last year was the one that removed quickness from grandmaster trait in PVP only and replaced it with fury.   Hilarious when every class in the game is broken they just nerf some damage scaling, but when scrapper has 1 stupid flamethrower build people are abusing, they just completely gut scrapper as a whole by removing quickness.  The entire class is balanced around having 100% quickness uptime in PVE but they think just removing it from PVP entirely is a good change 

Honestly, we should probably just be glad that they didn't rework gyros yet. As far as I know, they still want to make gyros stationary wells, but they will first come up with a minor gameplay addition for them before making that change.

But what I am really mad at is that turrets are never even remotely mentioned anywhere. They are in an absolute terrible state for years, yet no dev ever mentions that they are aware of their problems.

[Kstyle.5829]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Honestly, we should probably just be glad that they didn't rework gyros yet. As far as I know, they still want to make gyros stationary wells, but they will first come up with a minor gameplay addition for them before making that change.

But what I am really mad at is that turrets are never even remotely mentioned anywhere. They are in an absolute terrible state for years, yet no dev ever mentions that they are aware of their problems.

Yeah that's the life of a scrapper in this game.  Just be comfortable as your position as worst class in the game, because we can always nerf you more and make you worse.  Just turn gyros into kittening turrets why not.  

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

Untamed left untouched of course.

No, Unnatural Traversal is gaining an animation cast time. It is no longer instant. This means you cannot enter Maul animation and then instant teleport at someone for it to connect. This single change will destroy tele-burst play on the Untamed completely.

2 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

Just let all the scepter catalyst play untamed for now.

Guarantee you aint no Ele players gonna swap to Untamed after this.

2 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

With all the sweeping changes you made something else will inevitably become overpowered and be the new scepter catalyst.

Scepter Catalyst will still be the Scepter Catalyst. It only received enough nerfs to knock it from Tier 4 OP down to like Tier 1 or Tier 2 OP. It will still be played and it will still be at the top of the meta. Mark my words.

2 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

What the hell do you pay your staff to do on this game?

It was determined long ago that the balance team must be throwing darts at a dartboard, and basing their balance changes off of which number/color gets hit.

[Kstyle.5829]

17 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

No, Unnatural Traversal is gaining an animation cast time. It is no longer instant. This means you cannot enter Maul animation and then instant teleport at someone for it to connect. This single change will destroy tele-burst play on the Untamed completely.

 

Lmao just because you can't shadowstep during maul doesn't mean it will destroy untamed.  You can still shadowstep then pretty much immediately use your greatsword 5 stun, which is the better use of it anyway IMO.  Untamed has alot more going for it than that one thing

[Obtena.7952]

Can anyone imagine a universe where insulting the devs was actually an effective way to compel them to change the game the way you wanted? I can't. 

[gxrx.4518]

5 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

Lmao just because you can't shadowstep during maul doesn't mean it will destroy untamed.  You can still shadowstep then pretty much immediately use your greatsword 5 stun, which is the better use of it anyway IMO.  Untamed has alot more going for it than that one thing

Even Boyce said Untamed is completely dead and he won't play it anymore because of it.

It was actually the only s tier spec that needed a lot of skill to play especially to survive, it needed just a damage nerf, not a teleport nerf. 
Against good players the spec is unplayable now and impossible to land the burst combo.

 

If you are silver, which seems you are (even if you reached plat with cata or spb you are still silver skill level) you are still going to die to untamed combo. 
Soulbeast will be better in every aspect and even core ranger at this point.

[Tnanever.3192]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Can anyone imagine a universe where insulting the devs was actually an effective way to compel them to change the game the way you wanted? I can't. 

Can anyone imagine a universe where "being extra extra nice" is going to make devs start making good decisions instead of more bad patches?  I can't.  Go keep kneeling if that's your style, but most of us are gonna hard pass at doing that.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

Lmao just because you can't shadowstep during maul doesn't mean it will destroy untamed.  You can still shadowstep then pretty much immediately use your greatsword 5 stun, which is the better use of it anyway IMO.  Untamed has alot more going for it than that one thing

 

If you don't get CC'd out of UT first.  Having a cast time means it has an animation, and if it has an animation its easy to CC someone out of it if they don't have stability or some other defensive mechanism going.

I wouldn't tele in and GS 5 right away though as you lose your maul refresh this way---it's a beginner mistake.  Not that there aren't times where this could be viable, it's just bad general-purpose advice.

Untamed is still too difficult for most people to play correctly.  They didn't touch FF for this reason, as the rest of the kit is as about as brutal as condi druid to use (efficiently).  If you miss your setup CC's its very hard to recover as you do not have the kiting power of a soulbeast.  

None of this means the changes were great for Ranger.  Most impactful one is probably SoH, but rest of it is either a nerf (UT, and indirectly sharpening stone), a mixed bag of nonsense (stances and dagger) or blanket 'because we did it for everyone else' changes (WS CD changes).  

[Myror.7521]

I love how peops cry about the balance patch. "Oh no scourge don't see buffs" or "Oh no no second dodge for mirage". Yea maybe the reason they Dont buff those things is cause it was too spamy facerole play back then, plus pretty hard to balance it out cause of the way it works. Also they do not had 4 month to work on the balance patch. There where many things like New year christmas n stuff. I mean they are peops too? I think for the time they had this balance patch is still good. Daredevil got swipe deleted (happy cause more ranged steal plus one free unblockable skill deleted xd). Warrhorn 4 of necro is unblockable again will for sure make this weapon good again. Warr can now enter zerk Mode and left it if wanted. Bladesworn is now melee and mid range (this is huge since its defence in melee is not that good plus you can now kite more around enemys).

 

Idk but to me all those changes are pretty fair and good soo good work on this patch guys.

[semak.7481]

5 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

I love how peops cry about the balance patch. "Oh no scourge don't see buffs" or "Oh no no second dodge for mirage". Yea maybe the reason they Dont buff those things is cause it was too spamy facerole play back then

Other classes has never been braindead faceroll back then or now ... sure /s

you are not the sharpest tool in the shed

Edited February 4, 2023 by semak.7481

[Firebeard.1746]

in fairness a buff/nerf merry go round is pretty normal for competitive games as it keeps the meta fresh. Though some classes have been nerfed far too long as you state. I don't think it's bad that the meta changes periodically, in fact it should to keep the game mode fresh for old timers and put them closer to people learning the game mode. CHanges in meta in terms of mechanics used/prioritized is just as important as changes in terms of which professions are on top. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Firebeard.1746

[Myror.7521]

@semak.7481 well I do not say there are not spamy builds rn in the meta. But still every Single one of them is more heakthy to the game than a 24/7 invuln/block/blind/dodge mirage or a scourge with field spam that goes though the whole point you need to capture.

[semak.7481]

31 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@semak.7481 well I do not say there are not spamy builds rn in the meta. But still every Single one of them is more heakthy to the game than a 24/7 invuln/block/blind/dodge mirage or a scourge with field spam that goes though the whole point you need to capture.

So sad, forum posters like you, are so bad, that can only hyperbolise "perma dodgeblockblindinvul" as if they have all traitlines, especs and weapons equipped at once. Mirage had its moments of BS but it was more or less on par with the whole roster, I'm not really surprised, a lot of people here have selective memory and believe in whatever they want to believe

Edited February 4, 2023 by semak.7481