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So, you nerfed untangle and sharpening stone in PVE for no reason.


Peter.3901

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If someone isn't aware, they removed the CD reduction from Wildeness Knowledge, brought it to survival skills EXCEPT Sharpening Stone and Entangle.

 

So may i ask Anet, why? Rangers are already subpar to the point of needing to rely on old skills to do damage, and still, you nerf them instead of buffing the underwhelming ones, i can understand that in WvW things are weird and can't argue on that, but in PVE? really?

Edited by Peter.3901
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  • Peter.3901 changed the title to So, you nerfed untangle and sharpening stone in PVE for no reason.
19 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

The change has no impact on any good PvE build, because poison master is the better trait anyway and the cd reduction wasn't taken.

I have more issue with them basically making CD reduction traits useless. Do they plan to rework it eventually if they remove the CD portion of the trait? If they don't, they just created a dead trait slot, which I really dislike. 

Alot of these CD reduction traits are picked mainly for CD and making the CD baseline is awesome, but it also makes it entirely pointless for the trait to be picked. This goes for all other classes too who had their CD reduction traits "simplified" 

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1 hour ago, Peter.3901 said:

Not always, and also, if doesn't have any impact so why they nerf it?

Poison master is always superior in PvE and they didn't made the cd reduction baseline for entangle/sharpening stone to not buff builds that don't need buffs.

1 hour ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I have more issue with them basically making CD reduction traits useless. Do they plan to rework it eventually if they remove the CD portion of the trait? If they don't, they just created a dead trait slot, which I really dislike. 

Alot of these CD reduction traits are picked mainly for CD and making the CD baseline is awesome, but it also makes it entirely pointless for the trait to be picked. This goes for all other classes too who had their CD reduction traits "simplified" 

I'm more concerned about the resulting powercreep (especially on the defensive side of things) and increased "spammyness" in PvP/WvW. But at this point it is just the logical continuation of the direction they have been heading for a while.

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14 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

I'm more concerned about the resulting powercreep (especially on the defensive side of things) and increased "spammyness" in PvP/WvW. But at this point it is just the logical continuation of the direction they have been heading for a while.

Anet being consistent. Imagine that. 

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40 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Poison master is always superior in PvE and they didn't made the cd reduction baseline for entangle/sharpening stone to not buff builds that don't need buffs.

No, it isn't, its a good choice but not the best, also, not buffing builds that doesn't need buff don't mean that they should mess everything else, this was lazy.

Edited by Peter.3901
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18 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

The change has no impact on any good PvE build, because poison master is the better trait anyway and the cd reduction wasn't taken.

 

There is zero chance poison master is a better skill than reduced CD sharpening stone alone, let alone with entangle.  That's a massive amount of bleed loss compared to a trait that essentially does nothing, because poison damage is bad to begin with. 

I mean, poison shouldn't even do damage in a balanced world as its purpose is heal denial.  So, I'd rather we not rally around random nerfs to bleed skills in the name of poison of all condis, which is a literal utility like chill. 

I assure you these bleed nerfs were targted at bleed/immob druid, because bleed has best synergy there.  They want druid to be pigeonholed into healing, so they are stealth nerfing the one viable offensive build.  Which makes me wonder which dev I or the remaining 3 bleed/immob druids in the game killed to warrant this 🤨....

Edited by Gotejjeken.1267
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4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

There is zero chance poison master is a better skill than reduced CD sharpening stone alone, let alone with entangle.  That's a massive amount of bleed loss compared to a trait that essentially does nothing, because poison damage is bad to begin with.

Poison deals just as much dmg as bleeds and condi soulbeast has quite a lot of poison. Every single PvE meta build that runs WS goes for posison master. Period. Shorter cd on 10 stacks of bleed does nothing in comparison.

And i doubt they are targeting a specific build with those changes, because like you said, almost nobody plays condi druid (and if it's played it is in WvW small scale, which they don't care about at all). They didn't want to reduce the cd on those skills in PvE, because they are already run by good builds - without cd reduction. And not reducing the cd of Sharpening Stone in PvP/WvW (Entangle gets reduced cd there btw) is most likely just an oversight.

Edited by UmbraNoctis.1907
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Poison: (0.06 * Condition Damage) + 33.5 damage per stack per second at level 80.
bleeding: (0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 damage per stack per second at level 80.
Poison do more damage (without traits.)

PvE builds:
untamed: meta condi build don't use WS, and cd reduction is not needed 😉 
druid: condition druid is NOT for dps slot. druid will do more damage with condi then power, but it is still low.
option 1: it is a support+damage, then most likely you will use a different elite  (or maybe you have to time it), sharpening stone will do a difference 
option 2: you are a dps druid. Please wake up and switch to another elite specialisation. (or even core, it still do more damage)
Druid usually use WS when tanking, not for condi, for defense. Basicaly it is not for meta builds
Core: full bleeding build use sharpening stone, entangle, wilderness knowledge. this build will be get nerfed. but it is not a good build. switch the rune: from krait to afflicted, use your Viper's Nest and/or poison volley with poison master. 

Soulbeast: So we are finally speaking about a normal condition base dps builds here (no, untamed is not normal...)
hybrid build: don't use WS, no change
condi build: Literally a poison build, using rune of thorns. Getting poison to Primal Cry it will use poison master more likely.
full bleeding build: Seriously, why don't you use Vulture Stance, Viper's Nest, dagger or shortbow #2 skill or if you use this skills, poison master +25% damage is more, than 20% cd reduction on sharpening stone and entangle (and in some boss, entangle not works really well)

All in all, at PvE not reducing the 2 most used survive skills is not a big deal.
But I am not against buffing this skill in PvE too.  It will increase dps for some build, but it is not that significant.
(in the upper list, most build won't be still meta, or just 'effective' )

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Dunno about the rest of you, but I ran Wilderness Survival in sPvP mostly for being able to have more cleanses without running druid or the janky cleanse signet. While having baseline reduced cd on survival skills is nice, if they don't offer more cleansing options, then I'm still stuck with WS for cleanse. I was hoping we'd get something that finally frees us from that aspect of WS, but I guess that's not going to happen.

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11 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

There is zero chance poison master is a better skill than reduced CD sharpening stone alone, let alone with entangle.  That's a massive amount of bleed loss compared to a trait that essentially does nothing, because poison damage is bad to begin with. 

I mean, poison shouldn't even do damage in a balanced world as its purpose is heal denial.  So, I'd rather we not rally around random nerfs to bleed skills in the name of poison of all condis, which is a literal utility like chill. 

I assure you these bleed nerfs were targted at bleed/immob druid, because bleed has best synergy there.  They want druid to be pigeonholed into healing, so they are stealth nerfing the one viable offensive build.  Which makes me wonder which dev I or the remaining 3 bleed/immob druids in the game killed to warrant this 🤨....

I don't think you have played or looked into class builds enough. The primary source of damage for Ranger builds is first stats, then damage modifiers. 

Most go for condition/power/ferocity/precision first then damage modifiers like Poison Master next.

This exactly why Soulbeast is still top DPS since its Merge stats increase the class damage output by alot. It is also why hybrid Soulbeast is so powerful since you stack both Axe (strike) + Dagger/Torch (Condi) traits for maximum effect. 

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3 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

"it doesn't matter that they nerfed a skill for no reason because It doesn't effect me in my tiny part of the game"

Great reasoning guys. Start kitten to Warrior and Ele and they will give you a job on the balance team.

Where's the nerf of sharpening stone and entangle in PvE? 

People generally don't use wilderness knowledge, they use poison master in PvE. 

Please stop.

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4 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Where's the nerf of sharpening stone and entangle in PvE? 

People generally don't use wilderness knowledge, they use poison master in PvE. 

Please stop.

"it doesn't matter that they nerfed a skill for no reason because It doesn't effect me in my tiny part of the game"

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23 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

"it doesn't matter that they nerfed a skill for no reason because It doesn't effect me in my tiny part of the game"

I'm surprised that literally no one gave a reason for the nerf, literally they just said:  "i don't use in my little world so that's fine"

This community is hilarious at best, now i can see why devs don't take nothing here seriously.

Edited by Peter.3901
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On 2/6/2023 at 10:41 AM, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Where's the nerf of sharpening stone and entangle in PvE? 

People generally don't use wilderness knowledge, they use poison master in PvE. 

Please stop.

Yeah I feel like people just don't play Ranger at all. The only cooldown reduction trait that are worth it is command skills since it can help you push out more boon duration on yourself. 

Barely anyone uses Wilderness Survival even on Untamed. Literally the only reason to pick this traitline is for Poison Master and something like with dagger, torch or shortbow.

Edited by Mell.4873
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1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah I feel like people just don't play Ranger at all. The only cooldown reduction trait that are worth it is command skills since it can help you push out more boons duration on yourself. 

Barely anyone uses Wilderness Survival even on Untamed. Literly the only reason to pick it is for Poison Master and something like with dagger, torch or shortbow.

Fine, now again, give me a actual reason for the nerf as "no one" use the skill and stop acting like a bot.

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18 minutes ago, Peter.3901 said:

Fine, now again, give me a actual reason for the nerf as "no one" use the skill and stop acting like a bot.

It is a nerf for the people who were running this trait in PvE, but actual meta builds are not affected by it.

Sorry, but the actual reason is exactly that: no meta build in PvE uses the trait with these skills in combination and Anet simply doesn't balance around what people run for their personal for fun builds in open world.

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2 hours ago, Peter.3901 said:

Fine, now again, give me a actual reason for the nerf as "no one" use the skill and stop acting like a bot.

I mean we are not even to sure if they just didn't forget to add Sharpening Stone to the patch notes. Even Entangle has its cooldowns lowered to 48 seconds in PVP only. How sure are that PvE isn't the same? 

The reality is they all of these changes are just Quality of Life improvments with only slight nerfs to certain builds if the patch notes are correct. 

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2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

"it doesn't matter that they nerfed a skill for no reason because It doesn't effect me in my tiny part of the game"

OK. Hopefully you and the one other person that slots in wilderness knowledge for open world PvE can get a cooldown reduction for sharpening stone and entangle.

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4 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I mean we are not even to sure if they just didn't forget to add Sharpening Stone to the patch notes. Even Entangle has its cooldowns lowered to 48 seconds in PVP only. How sure are that PvE isn't the same? 

The reality is they all of these changes are just Quality of Life improvments with only slight nerfs to certain builds if the patch notes are correct. 

 

3 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

OK. Hopefully you and the one other person that slots in wilderness knowledge for open world PvE can get a cooldown reduction for sharpening stone and entangle.

Anyway, i'm so sorry, i'm being rude during this time thanks to pvp, i'll try to get better.

 

About the nerf i hope that they just forgot about it and that will get fixed soon, there are more OP stuff that they just ignored the next miniseason will be fun vs 2 Catalyst.

Edited by Peter.3901
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13 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I don't think you have played or looked into class builds enough. The primary source of damage for Ranger builds is first stats, then damage modifiers. 

Most go for condition/power/ferocity/precision first then damage modifiers like Poison Master next.

This exactly why Soulbeast is still top DPS since its Merge stats increase the class damage output by alot. It is also why hybrid Soulbeast is so powerful since you stack both Axe (strike) + Dagger/Torch (Condi) traits for maximum effect. 

For PvE I don't look too much into builds as you can sleep through even T4 fractals and still get top DPS.  For WvW / PvP I'd wager I'm among the top 5-10 Druids remaining, nearly Solo Q'ing into plat, so yeah, I've looked into a few builds.

20 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

And i doubt they are targeting a specific build with those changes, because like you said, almost nobody plays condi druid (and if it's played it is in WvW small scale, which they don't care about at all). They didn't want to reduce the cd on those skills in PvE, because they are already run by good builds - without cd reduction. And not reducing the cd of Sharpening Stone in PvP/WvW (Entangle gets reduced cd there btw) is most likely just an oversight.

They mentioned immob druid on two streams in a row now, and specifically on the last as a reason why Muddy Terrain isn't getting CD reduction in WvW.  They know about it.

Edited by Gotejjeken.1267
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