earthen rush and burning speed changes

[Khalisto.5780]

if you could make this change pve only it would be the best, but still, I don't know, this is too much of a instanced content update

 

I mean, those were super fun to play in pve

 

In pvp going to the back of your enemy is super nice or just use it as a kiting skill

 

It feels really bad overall

[Magizen.7842]

This is more of a QoL update for PvE but for PvP I imagine we simply detarget if we don't want to stop so this is not something to worry about.

[Zuko.7132]

It will be easier to land burning speed against people who are right on you. Earthen rush, you’ll probably want to detarget.

[Infusion.7149]

It's so you don't zoom into a Sabetha flame wall , Adina sand wall, or some other raid mechanic. In most scenarios it won't be an issue since you can detarget for competitive modes. You don't want autotarget for PVP anyway since any movement skills would not allow you to dash away. Detargeting allows you to use the original form of the skill per the stream.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

i doubt that it was meant to be QoL for pve since the trail on burning speed has higher value against brainless pve enemies (condi component, adds almost 50% more dmg to the skill with persisting flames and procs/stacks the trait) which may or may not spawn at the end point of dash. regardless of whether it does, the target will be at the tip of the trail rather than the middle (easier to move out of). the change can still be useful by starting the dash inside the targets hitbox so that it doesnt force movement and spawns 1 trail segment directly on the target, but this struggles to hold true when either using as a gap closer, against smaller hitboxes that are harder to stand in or more mobile targets that have less trail to dance around

earthen rush is hard to judge because the immob only applies to the targets the skill puts a spike through, which atm requires passing through them along the length of the dash. same as burning speed, im sure this is no issue when standing inside the targets hitbox, but if the skill stops before the hitbox (like every other gap closer) however…

if its a pve QoL then it seems like its only for static bosses anyway. in other situations it seems rather unnecessary, especially when players have the option to position themselves properly or not press the button in the first place, and now have to detarget on top of that

[Markus.6415]

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It's so you don't zoom into a Sabetha flame wall , Adina sand wall, or some other raid mechanic. In most scenarios it won't be an issue since you can detarget for competitive modes. You don't want autotarget for PVP anyway since any movement skills would not allow you to dash away. Detargeting allows you to use the original form of the skill per the stream.

Meeeh, Adina sand wall has the problem that you lose target the moment she goes invulnerable. Killed me often enough with other movement abilities.

[Vanz.8753]

its actually a good change even in competivive modes. the amount of times ive gon off a ledge or something cause i faced a slightly wrong angle...
itll just take a pinch to get used to by deselecting target if you dont want to stop on him.
i think it wont be fun at the start though XD

[Khalisto.5780]

On 2/4/2023 at 7:30 PM, Magizen.7842 said:

This is more of a QoL update for PvE but for PvP I imagine we simply detarget if we don't want to stop so this is not something to worry about.

Did they say you could detarget to not stop? I just read the notes

[Sahne.6950]

skill will stop at targets location.

No target -> no stop.

Same as ranger Greatsword.

[Jski.6180]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

skill will stop at targets location.

No target -> no stop.

Same as ranger Greatsword.

We hope there where a few things that where not that well described out lets hope we get more info soon.

[solemn.9670]

As long as we can detarget and still go through ppl in WvW I don't mind. Otherwise, it would be neither a nerf or buff just annoying in some cases and useful in others.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You'll just have to detarget before using them. The next question will be if you retarget will they redirect to the new target?

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You'll just have to detarget before using them. The next question will be if you retarget will they redirect to the new target?

It could depend on if you have autotarget set in settings

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

We'll see.

But de-targeting > re-targetting, it's two more useless actions in pvp and WvW only to satisfy  some weaver/tempest Pve Raiders. Not a fan.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

We'll see.

But de-targeting > re-targetting, it's two more useless actions in pvp and WvW only to satisfy  some weaver/tempest Pve Raiders. Not a fan.

Nah, if you have autotarget in the settings you could juke/fake people out with that. I do it frequently with Bulls Charge and Rush. You can also use it to get flanking for Thief Runes.

[Zuko.7132]

On 2/6/2023 at 12:55 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Nah, if you have autotarget in the settings you could juke/fake people out with that. I do it frequently with Bulls Charge and Rush. You can also use it to get flanking for Thief Runes.

I love doing this on war. 180 bulls and rush is super fun, especially if you force a dodge and still land it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, Zuko.7132 said:

I love doing this on war. 180 bulls and rush is super fun, especially if you force a dodge and still land it.

You can do it with Eviscerate to land it on their back as well.

[Dadnir.5038]

On 2/4/2023 at 11:30 PM, Magizen.7842 said:

This is more of a QoL update for PvE but for PvP I imagine we simply detarget if we don't want to stop so this is not something to worry about.

PvE wise it's more of a nerf than QoL.

I'd say it might be QoL for careless players in WvW, preventing them from jumping off the cliffs, but that's about it.

[andrewlcl.8176]

I think both were fine (ie. great) prior to the suggested change, especially within melee range. Burning Speed does its damage consistently. Earthen Rush spikes more enemies also in its current state. The evades will likely not work as well after the change.

 

Post change, I can only see both skills working better if they were used as a gap closer to the target. 

[Sasha.1730]

After having played post-patch, it is such a downgrade of how it used to work. I know the studio doesnt often revert changes, but these are just strictly worse from my perspective and im a cliff leaping enjoyer myself, wish they would go back to the way they were :(

[Vilin.8056]

Now that the flame trail of Burning Speed no longer reaches target with small hitbox, we are now required to turn off targeting before cast, likewise for moving targets of any hit box.

This probably renders the skill to underperform in most situaltions, and the overleap issue still persist since you are now required to turn off target before casting in order to reach the intended effect.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Vilin.8056

[Viriki.3045]

This change was implemented really poorly. You still have to finish the full dash animation for the damage to land on burning speed, and there's almost no situation in which you would ever want to stop magnetic which makes it just a nerf to both skills. It also prevents the fire field on burning speed from landing any damage or burning on the target. It messes with a lot of tech combos too like burning speed - about face - magnetic leap forcing you to detarget in most situations. Feels terrible to play and ruins the flow of dagger.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

instead of reverting the change, an extra skill effect should be added, to either

1) extend the range of the field past the target if the target is closer than the fully deployed field, ie: separate the movement from the field: burning speed creates a fire field of x size in front you (toward the target) and secondly moves you to the target.

OR:

2) if you reach the target before the field reaches it's maximum length, do extra damage to the enemy (either burning or strike, or both depending on the percentage of the field that is lost due to how close the target is when you cast the skill)

I imagine something could be added for the earth skill, too, if the travel distance is cut short

Edited February 14, 2023 by Forgotten Legend.9281

[dascott.6078]

1 hour ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

instead of reverting the change, an extra skill effect should be added, to either

1) extend the range of the field past the target if the target is closer than the fully deployed field, ie: separate the movement from the field: burning speed creates a fire field of x size in front you (toward the target) and secondly moves you to the target.

OR:

2) if you reach the target before the field reaches it's maximum length, do extra damage to the enemy (either burning or strike, or both depending on the percentage of the field that is lost due to how close the target is when you cast the skill)

I imagine something could be added for the earth skill, too, if the travel distance is cut short

 

I feel like I'm probably the minority opinion, but I really don't mind the changes too bad.  It does affect the "flow", especially in dagger builds with evasive arcana.  Fire 3 through the target, roll back for fire burst.  Same with Earth 3 and roll back for Shock wave.  Having to de-target and then re-target, takes some getting used to.  As someone mentioned earlier, you should never have your Autotarget box checked in PvP/WvW modes, that's a recipe for disaster.   However...., if this ^ could be done, I think it would make the changes much more palatable.   Then again, I'm no developer, so I have no idea how difficult this would be to implement.

[Grahckheuhl.7549]

perhaps this behavior should be determined by the "melee attack assist" option, as it is in line with what that option attempts to do.

 

whatever the case, the current implementation has significant anti-synergy with many builds that commonly use burning speed, as it is now unable to hit your target with the generated fire field for persisting flames procs and additional burning. yes you could untarget and retarget, but that can be clunky in a fast paced rotation like many raid builds, and is not possible at all if you have autotarget enabled.