Improve wvw content by curbing toxic play

[displayname.8315]

Sometimes I think it's the developers fault for not being more proactive in their game. But we really should be blaming the player base. 

 

Most of the people who come into WvW are a liability.  They rally enemies and eat up all rez abilities in your group immediately.  They barrage all their projectiles into reflects and literally kill their own teammates.

 

This is the reason people stack with other competent players in the first place.

 

Just glad it will be springtime soon so I can enjoy cycling again.

Edited February 7, 2023 by displayname.8315
Spellin

[Piney.3076]

Some counterpoints:

1. Anet won't do anything about wvw. I offer as counter evidence a recent change to wvw. The change to keep supply could arguably be said to make it slightly easier to take back a spawn camped garrison. They tried something, they are concerned. So it's worth posting constructive ideas. 

2. It's players faults. Yes players are perfectly capable of *not* spawn camping, and also continuing to fight against adversity. In fact both actually happen quite a lot, more than is given credit. But isn't it better if the game nudges this along by making camping a bit more difficult, and trying a bit more rewarding.

3. The fight can't be made even. Maybe, maybe not, if such a thing is even wanted. But that's not what I said. I'd suggest some kind of real home advantage, for *certain* areas only. We know they fk lord was tough, she got nerfed. So put some of that cc spam in home garrison... *only* for the home team. Then it's a little tougher to spawn camp, and a little easier to take back. Instead of the opposite, against a larger force.

The fight doesn't need to be even, but it does need to be fun and interesting for both sides. Or players don't play. 

So huge buffs at garrison, home team only. Big buffs at ebg home keep. Smaller buffs at home towers. The rest, as is, glorious chaos.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Piney.3076

[Kirevey.5079]

9 hours ago, Piney.3076 said:

 

1. Anet won't do anything about wvw. I offer as counter evidence a recent change to wvw. The change to keep supply could arguably be said to make it slightly easier to take back a spawn camped garrison. They tried something, they are concerned. So it's worth posting constructive ideas. 

The problem is that numbers only adjustments for WvW are not enough (leaving outside class balance). The numbers tweak is just an easy way to make it seem like they are doing/trying something, when in reality most of the people that play the game mode question the reasoning behind the changes. 

A simple example that would have been better, with some more thought, why not make supply camps work like conquests nodes ? if people are not around for a while, the camp becomes neutral and yaks stop going out to towers/keeps. You could have a grace period while the RI lasts and after that it decays. It would split people from main forces to actually watch for camps, it would negate supply from towers/keeps of dominant servers that are not paying attention, etc.

These kind of changes are what is needed on the game mode, not a "flip of a coin" number tweak.

 

9 hours ago, Piney.3076 said:

2. It's players faults. Yes players are perfectly capable of *not* spawn camping, and also continuing to fight against adversity. In fact both actually happen quite a lot, more than is given credit. But isn't it better if the game nudges this along by making camping a bit more difficult, and trying a bit more rewarding.

This part I agree, but again, It requires for ANET to think of actual solutions, which I believe they are not really interested on pouring resources right now. They don't even address most of the concerns in the forums by saying that there are problems. I still remember asking the devs on a stream if they could change the party color of players in a squad (Lets say all squad has color blue, but party has color purple or something). At the time they said "yeah sure, we can do it". It's been like 3+ years since that lmao.

 

The third point you made goes along the same lines. ANET needs to do reworks and think out of the box to solve a lot of these problems, but WvW clearly is not priority on their backlog. I really hope they prove me wrong, but alliances tell the story better than any other argument.

 

[Chaba.5410]

4 hours ago, Kirevey.5079 said:

why not make supply camps work like conquests nodes ? if people are not around for a while, the camp becomes neutral and yaks stop going out to towers/keeps.

That's an interesting suggestion.  I'm not a fan of the automatic upgrades and this kind of thing would re-introduce a human interaction element back to it.  Servers should not be rewarded for having no one online attending to upgrade.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 2/7/2023 at 9:31 PM, Chaos God.1639 said:

Blame the players for that. It's not the first time I see that gamers destroy the game themselves. If ANET sees that gamers are getting angry, negative and emotional about controversial topics, like pvp balance, then ofc they aren't going to spend money and time on these modes.

Looks like it's hard for some people to give feedback without being hostile.

IF the game allows players to destroy the game mode it's Anet fault to allow that to happen.

 

EDIT: actuially they dont destroyed the game they were forced to it, Anet always dreamed that WvW would be played by just one side ktrain or groups ktrain without fithing.

Ive listened in coms dev cursing defenders and in old forum Anet said that would love to make WvW what EOTM was at that time, 0 fights 100% ktrain.

At this time it's quite hard not leashing a bit on Anet developers the game is old and aged disgracefully (even PVE is made to make 0 iq players look good iit has become a extremelly dumbed down due how much Anet carries players in raids) and sometimes it feels it is still on beta and Anet is complerelly lost in the balance and fixes of the game, players are a bit tired as well.

Note: I actually  bash alot Anet cause their mistakes and logic tends to be so dumb i just need to point  obvious, and what creates all balance issues in the game is what they illogically keep buffing and give more access which is like a snowball effect.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Xenesis.6389]

4 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Ive listened in coms dev cursing defenders and in old forum Anet said that would love to make WvW what EOTM was at that time, 0 fights 100% ktrain.

They wanted to turn wvw into a pve ktrain with the worst rewards in the game? I mean that's the whole reason to do a ktrain is for the rewards. 🤭 Makes no sense trying to turn a pvp mode into something that already exist in the game in the vast pve area of trains. Although I guess it would be another explanation of why they abandoned the game mode for so long. 😑

[prototypedragon.1406]

Honestly if they just removed  all boons, increased damage and number of targets of aoe but tie them more into being spreadable Conditions  that would become more intense the more players that are huddled together within a certain range say max 400 ( literally like a greater version of epidemic) , Then small group versus zerg combat could improve and require more tactical thinking and increase spread out squad gameplay. rather then one side just casually walking into any carpet with kitten covered toes they choose with no repercussions or reasons to move out of cannon or siege fire. Not that any type of siege is" Deadly"  and does  nothing  to players currently anyways. Boon propping is part of the issue let alone duration/ spam ability. In the old days boons such as stability we're rare and limited because they had to be chosen at the right moment requiring timing and knowledge of when to activate a skill. K training should be left to the eotm wasteland anet made. Idk after 10 years it wouldn't surprise me if they reshelf the entire alliance project without a word like last time. They at one time made a living world if I remember right?  What's so hard with making a living world versus world that requires real time strategy rather then who can keep a bar up the longest?

[Johje Holan.4607]

Unfortunately, players have been discussing this issue since launch and Anet hasn't really addressed it.  One can only think that there are a couple of reasons:

1. Anet doesn't think its an issue/doesn't care. 
   1. The problem with thinking this is that Anet themselves have stated that the purpose of 3 teams is so the weaker two can gang up on the stronger.  So why wouldn't they put in mechanics to incentivize that behavior.
2. Anet can't figure out how to address the issue/doesn't have the resources to do so. 
   1. I personally think this is the answer, but I'm not sure because there are easy things they could do but haven't.

A lot of good suggestions have been made over the years such as incentivize attacking the stronger team in various ways, making the stronger team weaker/the weaker team stronger, anti-snowball mechanics, etc.  All of these unfortunately require dev time.  I honestly wish they would have spent dev time on this rather than alliances and rewards because I doubt that alliances are going to fix the population imbalance issues.

One easy thing they could do is to allow siege to be built in spawn.  Even better would be to put fixed super-trebs at spawn that could hit Gari/Home EB Keep and they would only become active if it is taken (but again this requires dev time).  I mean, if you're being spawn camped you need all the help you can get.  Siege at spawn would at least give people a sense that they have some kind of fighting chance to break out.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Johje Holan.4607

[Aeolus.3615]

9 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

They wanted to turn wvw into a pve ktrain with the worst rewards in the game? I mean that's the whole reason to do a ktrain is for the rewards. 🤭 Makes no sense trying to turn a pvp mode into something that already exist in the game in the vast pve area of trains. Although I guess it would be another explanation of why they abandoned the game mode for so long. 😑

The only things that tends to matter to games is players numbers and  dev's tend not to care if they believe such ktrain system keeps game mode alive and self regenerative in terms of players and keeps the structures redundancy alive, time proven they were wrong.. well  in a way since theres groups of 2-4 players that are alowed by the ktrain groups to recap some structures so they can ktrain them back wich is literally what wvw has become.  

The best way to describe this game is like theres a large pond but it's depth is so  superficial that dries out at minimal contact, every new content becomes old and dull very fast.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[KeyOrion.9506]

Never overfish a pond, otherwise there will be nothing left to fish.  Don't spawn camp.  Pull back, once you dominated, and let the fish resupply the waters that were decimated.  Otherwise, you got nothing to play against.  And if you have nothing to play against, why even play?

[Mabi black.1824]

12 hours ago, Johje Holan.4607 said:

Anet doesn't think its an issue/doesn't care.

 

12 hours ago, Johje Holan.4607 said:

• 1.  
• Anet can't figure out how to address the issue/doesn't have the resources to do so

My thought today in our beloved forum is meant to make you even more confused than before. Anet doesn't think, Anet doesn't know, Anet doesn't listen........... We read these things very often here. But I ask you, are you sure what you support? because I think it is the exact opposite.

The guys at Anet, this game, designed it and then made it, and it was a great success just like the previous GW, and continues to be so now after so many years. So I think Anet knows everything, controls everything and evaluates everything very carefully.

It probably also has under control all the flows that concern our preferred mode. Day after day. And if the data they read does not highlight any particular problems, they will act accordingly. Absurdly what for us is a problem (just for example, lopsided matches or servers that do not get a link in the EU) for Anet could be situations that work very well as long as the data they read falls within the standard that is in their heads.

Somehow conceding that players can abuse or circumvent a game mechanic, with the consequence that another group of players get a strong spin of rabbits (or kittens) could be exactly what I want.

All this to say that in reality what does not pernsa or what does not know or what does not know is only and exclusively the user, the player. And if you think about it, Anet is careful to maintain your condition and avoid as much as possible coming here and participating in all our considerations.

Because that's exactly what he wants. The player who does not know, the player confused and lacking a general vision of things is much more useful and interesting for Anet.

I hope I have been helpful in making you even more confused than before.

Joking aside I wish you a good weekend and lots of fun in this game.😉

[Johje Holan.4607]

4 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

 

I hope I have been helpful in making you even more confused than before.

Joking aside I wish you a good weekend and lots of fun in this game.😉

Yes, you have thoroughly confused me 😀.  Good fun to you too!