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Asking the devs: Why we don't see more of these?


Khalisto.5780

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October 18, 2022
  • Reduced vigor duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in PvP and 3 seconds to 1 second in WvW when using the vindicator elite specialization.
July 19, 2022
  • Reduced vigor duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only when the Vindicator specialization is equipped.

 

Why we don't see more of these?

 

I know this could turn into a "case by case" nightmare

 

but i think we could have a lot of elite nerfs only

like core ele keeping the current scepter numbers

core thief sb 5 back to 5 initiative

just most of "nerfed in the name of elites" undone

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It could be that depending on how the game is coded, it can increase the cpu load by adding 3 possibles paths (specs) combined with 18 indirections (traits)  which make it hard for the cpu to optimize the data (since it can't pe parrallelize). Now this is probably a big assumption, but it's still a possibility.

But if you ask me, they re prob lazy as kitten.

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17 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

Why we don't see more of these?

because vindicator already has received massive nerfs... why do you want to nerf it further? 😉

 

 

Forum monke dont get joke! Forum monke press "confused" :C 🐒

Edited by Sahne.6950
Someone obviously didnt get the joke.
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1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

because vindicator already has already received massive nerfs... why do you want to nerf it further?

 

His point was to add more split balance to core traits depending on equipped elite traitline, not to nerf vindicator further.

And i highly agree to that.

Also be careful and only do that when the problem rly is the elite or the synergy between the elite and the core trait. If the core trait by itself is a problem you should nerf the core trait in general.

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5 minutes ago, melcor.1094 said:

His point was to add more split balance to core traits depending on equipped elite traitline, not to nerf vindicator further.

And i highly agree to that.

Also be careful and only do that when the problem rly is the elite or the synergy between the elite and the core trait. If the core trait by itself is a problem you should nerf the core trait in general.

oh god xDD 

Thanks Captain obvious.

Edited by Sahne.6950
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2 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

most people here know that i am nothing but kitten memes and jokes... thats all i have left to do with over a decade spent in this shitshow.

Sorry i do not check forum permanently and don't follow it that comprehensive to know specific forum member habits

Edited by melcor.1094
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2 minutes ago, melcor.1094 said:

Sorry i do not check forum permanently and don't follow it that comprehensive to know specific forum member habits

no need to apologize, this was the most joyful thing that happened in this forum today. 😄

Edited by Sahne.6950
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5 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Because it would probably become a maintenance nightmare. We have 3 versions of everything already as it (pvp, wvw, pve), double that up for these spec-specific changes, it's going to become really painful really soon 

Having more buttons to use for fine tuning is a good thing. Ofc it needs more capabilities and knowledgeable devs. I knowAnet has neither but that can't be the perma excuse for bad balance. We as paying customers should at least not accept those excuses.

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As others have mentioned it becomes a bit of a balance nightmare.
You could have 12 different versions of a single trait in extreme circumstance and that's just for 1 trait, keeping track of all this across 36 specs (elites and not selecting an elite trait line) would spiral quickly.
Additionally this also hurts players when your trait behaves differently because you are in PvP and you selected a certain elite spec, I know some people said that's why they stopped playing mirage, the difference between 2 dodges in PvE and 1 everywhere else was too jarring. Splitting traits on a larger scale than one off would probably hurt people more in the long run.

Besides, we all know most of the time the issue isn't the trait they nerf, it's usually something else that's making it too good that could be changed. You know if they ever decided to admit that some mechanics are just too strong even if they think it's really fun.

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8 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

As others have mentioned it becomes a bit of a balance nightmare.
You could have 12 different versions of a single trait in extreme circumstance and that's just for 1 trait, keeping track of all this across 36 specs (elites and not selecting an elite trait line) would spiral quickly.
Additionally this also hurts players when your trait behaves differently because you are in PvP and you selected a certain elite spec, I know some people said that's why they stopped playing mirage, the difference between 2 dodges in PvE and 1 everywhere else was too jarring. Splitting traits on a larger scale than one off would probably hurt people more in the long run.

Besides, we all know most of the time the issue isn't the trait they nerf, it's usually something else that's making it too good that could be changed. You know if they ever decided to admit that some mechanics are just too strong even if they think it's really fun.

yeah, we have plenty example of that, like lightning rod having its dmg modifiers reduced 3 times in a row when the only elite overperforming with it was weaver due to how many procs it could get because of the dual skills

 

same with burning guardian that was heavily nerfed cuz DH with trapper runes, after they nerfed burning DH move to a power build and kept being kitten for another 2 years

 

engi and mesmer had rounds and rounds of nerfs in the name of holo and mirage.
 

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On 2/8/2023 at 8:14 PM, Khalisto.5780 said:

I know this could turn into a "case by case" nightmare

 

It already did. The list of skills that do entirely different things(or nothing) in other gamemodes grows longer in each patch. 
For example, why is it good/needed for firebrands healskill to do basicly nothing in PvP? Why is the same happening next patch to the elite of deadeye? These skills aren't getting balanced, they are getting removed. 
So my point is: A-net cannot balance their game, and letting them do things "case by case" will just result in problematic skills/traits being absolutely neutered in specific gamemodes. If there are no splits, they cannot do that. If there are, who cares if you cannot use this one 1 skill in this 1 gamemode?

I'm against all splits whatsoever. I'd like to see PvE and PvP have the same coefficients etc.

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10 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

As others have mentioned it becomes a bit of a balance nightmare.
You could have 12 different versions of a single trait in extreme circumstance and that's just for 1 trait, keeping track of all this across 36 specs (elites and not selecting an elite trait line) would spiral quickly.
Additionally this also hurts players when your trait behaves differently because you are in PvP and you selected a certain elite spec, I know some people said that's why they stopped playing mirage, the difference between 2 dodges in PvE and 1 everywhere else was too jarring. Splitting traits on a larger scale than one off would probably hurt people more in the long run.

Besides, we all know most of the time the issue isn't the trait they nerf, it's usually something else that's making it too good that could be changed. You know if they ever decided to admit that some mechanics are just too strong even if they think it's really fun.

I think that is a bit of an overdramatic expectation. First of, you only make number splits not functional splits in most cases and no one cares when a trait does 4 might stacks in pve, 3 in pvp on core and 2 in pvp on a specific elite.

Also i cannot think of a single case, where the number of traits need split balance for one elite is more than 3. Often less. That is totally doable and worth the effort.

When the core trait by itself is a problem they need to nerf the core trait in general anyway. "By itself" doesn't mean core is viable. Core builds can overall  be very weak even with that trait equipped but that core trait can still be too strong and still needs nerf. Since that opens up for buffs on traits which are too weak by itself without overbuffing core as a whole.

Edited by melcor.1094
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6 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

It already did. The list of skills that do entirely different things(or nothing) in other gamemodes grows longer in each patch. 
For example, why is it good/needed for firebrands healskill to do basicly nothing in PvP? Why is the same happening next patch to the elite of deadeye? These skills aren't getting balanced, they are getting removed. 
So my point is: A-net cannot balance their game, and letting them do things "case by case" will just result in problematic skills/traits being absolutely neutered in specific gamemodes. If there are no splits, they cannot do that. If there are, who cares if you cannot use this one 1 skill in this 1 gamemode?

I'm against all splits whatsoever. I'd like to see PvE and PvP have the same coefficients etc.

Bad balance, done by clueless devs as we currently have, is bad balance tho. Doesn't matter if they do case by case split balance or not.

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5 minutes ago, melcor.1094 said:

Bad balance, done by clueless devs as we currently have, is bad balance tho. Doesn't matter if they do case by case split balance or not.

In a funny way, they overcomplicate balance for themselves already. Why do PvE builds need to make 25-40K DPS? Why cant we just cut down the health of endgame NPC-s to 20% and have PvP numbers everywhere? Splits are dumb.

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17 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

In a funny way, they overcomplicate balance for themselves already. Why do PvE builds need to make 25-40K DPS? Why cant we just cut down the health of endgame NPC-s to 20% and have PvP numbers everywhere? Splits are dumb.

Well yes, as long as they make pvp focused balance and then adjust pve content to that balance i agree. But i prefer split balance over pve focused balance in pvp.

Edited by melcor.1094
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