(WvW) Staff + Relentless Fire & Shattering Ice

[MarzAttakz.9608]

Sooo... As a Staff Catalyst on a primarily cloud-based no voice server there are practically no regroups to buff (25 might + fury in this context) during engagements and no targetted spikes (boon strip, removal of barrier + aegis, cc) so the onus is on me to do what I can when I can which suits me fine.

As a result of that I've changed my utility layout to be: Arcane Brilliance (gives me a blast on demand, can be used offensively too), Flex Spot (what I'd like to discuss), Fortified Earth or Invigorating Air (no stun break if running Earth hurts but I accept that if I die I kittened up), Lightning Flash (can it please be a stun break already, ten years on my bar getting dusty), Elemental Celerity or FGS (depends on the group we're fighting's ability to react quickly or not) - fairly standard stuff here with a few personal changes.

What I'd like to discuss is how to most efficiently use Relentless Fire (for the damage boost and unblockable) or Shattering Ice (for chilled as soft CC to keep targets in the danger zone longer).

Before discussing Fire Attunement my favourite ways to use Relentless Fire are in Earth together with Unsteady Ground (earth 4) and Shockwave (earth 5). Question: does unblockable negate a reflect of Shockwave though?

In Fire Attunement things get interesting and it's where I have the most questions. Let's start with Lava Font (fire 2): Relentless Fire interaction is obvious here, who doesn't want unblockable 15% damage increase? But what happens if I use Shattering Ice instead? Is having chilled applied going to keep targets inside the field for longer and should they move out of the field, will the chilled ticks keep them inside of Meteor Shower longer?

Which brings me to Meteor Shower (fire 5) and the real reason why I even considered using Shattering Ice in the first place. As with Lace Font using Relentless Fire is the obvious choice, however I have questions around maximising the damage boosts. Lava Font will always be placed to proc traits, do you: Jade Sphere + Relentless Fire > Lava Font > channel MS or Lava Font > channel MS > Jade Sphere + Relentless Fire - simply put do damage boosts apply while channeling or do they apply to individual ticks? Furthermore should I use Shattering Ice will the chill apply at each tick of Lava Font and each individual impact of Meteor Shower? (chilling and keeping them inside the area longer without needing additional cc)

Apologies if this sounds convoluted. Have any of you tested out similar things? I haven't personally tested on a target dummy, where the kitten do I go to do so (asking for friend)?

 

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Shattering ice has a max of 1 proc per 1/4 second, so you want to increase your frequency of hits. Best way would be to lay down lava font/firestorm/Meteor shower to get as close to the 1/4 sec per hit as possible.

 

For relentless fire im pretty sure they proc on ticks. Still you should be able to precast sphere+relentless fire before your lava font MS since its 8 sec dura anyways. It would probably be more effective to cast them in between your Meteor showers if you decide to pop your elite. 

 

I normally just tend to pop relentless fire and shattering ice on my MS cd for some extra spike potential. 

 

That being said, i haven't got that much experience on my staff cata. I kinda prefer the Weaver since it tends to give a more reliable dmge output. 

 

P.s. since you're mostly running in zergs/clouds w/o structured boonsupport i'd highly recommend trying out fried golden dumplings as food. Its dirt cheap (costs like 20 copper) and actually offers a crapload of might for staff ele in zergfights (100 concentration+33% chance on crit to give might for 5 seconds with no icd). With a lillbit extra might duration and crit cap you can get like 15+ stacks might quite easily. 

[MarzAttakz.9608]

7 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Shattering ice has a max of 1 proc per 1/4 second, so you want to increase your frequency of hits. Best way would be to lay down lava font/firestorm/Meteor shower to get as close to the 1/4 sec per hit as possible.

Got it - read your reply during a short break last night before things went ham on home border. I think I may drop Shattering Ice outside of fighting small-scale havoc or other pug groups, too much cleansing for it make a significant difference.

7 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

For relentless fire im pretty sure they proc on ticks. Still you should be able to precast sphere+relentless fire before your lava font MS since its 8 sec dura anyways. It would probably be more effective to cast them in between your Meteor showers if you decide to pop your elite. 

That's a good point and an approach I tested with good results especially considering the movement after initially bombing. Thank you. It was incredibly frustrating watching an entire stacked boonball eating double Lava Font + Meteor Shower with Relentless Fire thrown in repeatedly. And they weren't even particularly good. Target caps need to be revisited if they're not going to do anything about this obscene abundance of boons.

 

7 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

P.s. since you're mostly running in zergs/clouds w/o structured boonsupport i'd highly recommend trying out fried golden dumplings as food. Its dirt cheap (costs like 20 copper) and actually offers a crapload of might for staff ele in zergfights (100 concentration+33% chance on crit to give might for 5 seconds with no icd). With a lillbit extra might duration and crit cap you can get like 15+ stacks might quite easily. 

This was surprisingly effective and despite losing the -10% damage taken and stats from ascended food made a significant difference.

Thank you again. Solid feedback all round.

Edited February 12, 2023 by MarzAttakz.9608

[Ace.1784]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:15 AM, MarzAttakz.9608 said:

Got it - read your reply during a short break last night before things went ham on home border. I think I may drop Shattering Ice outside of fighting small-scale havoc or other pug groups, too much cleansing for it make a significant difference.

That's a good point and an approach I tested with good results especially considering the movement after initially bombing. Thank you. It was incredibly frustrating watching an entire stacked boonball eating double Lava Font + Meteor Shower with Relentless Fire thrown in repeatedly. And they weren't even particularly good. Target caps need to be revisited if they're not going to do anything about this obscene abundance of boons.

 

This was surprisingly effective and despite losing the -10% damage taken and stats from ascended food made a significant difference.

Thank you again. Solid feedback all round.

Spiced peppercorn cheesecake is the ascended food that gives this stat combo

[solemn.9670]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion but I've found this to be the best possible choice for clouding in small to semi-large groups on mag. Ditch cata, it does less damage than staff weaver and is less supportive than staff heal tempest. The real best in-between for when you need to babysit your group/pugs but also pull hard damage to compensate for no one knowing wth they're doing, run full glass staff tempest.

Fire 122 (aoe cleanses on aura, aoe might generation on exiting fire, decreased MS CD and more dmg)

Water 232 (more dmg at high hp, aura share)

Tempest traits Im fuzzy on bc typing this at work, I think it's 332. The alacrity, Regen+vigor and aura on overload traits. Don't really need the stab trait bc the only overload you really need to use off cd is earth, the rest are just nice if you can get it, nbd if you can't.

This may sound strange just trying to visualize it. I can already see why someone who hasn't tinkered with it for awhile would think it's stupid lol but it works extremely well.

I.e. magnetic aura spam combo:

Earth 3

Rebound for magnetic aura in earth attune

Earth overload

Aftershock

Repeat

Doesn't need to be that exact order of course. And meteor showers, ice spike eruption and air 2 all hit very hard still. Would recommend giving it a try but it's not for everyone/every situation

Edited February 14, 2023 by solemn.9670

[MarzAttakz.9608]

36 minutes ago, solemn.9670 said:

This is going to be an unpopular opinion but I've found this to be the best possible choice for clouding in small to semi-large groups on mag. Ditch cata, it does less damage than staff weaver and is less supportive than staff heal tempest. The real best in-between for when you need to babysit your group/pugs but also pull hard damage to compensate for no one knowing wth they're doing, run full glass staff tempest.

Fire 122 (aoe cleanses on aura, aoe might generation on exiting fire, decreased MS CD and more dmg)

Water 233 (more dmg at high hp, aura share)

Tempest traits Im fuzzy on bc typing this at work, I think it's 332. The alacrity, Regen+vigor and aura on overload traits. Don't really need the stab trait bc the only overload you really need to use off cd is earth, the rest are just nice if you can get it, nbd if you can't.

This may sound strange just trying to visualize it. I can already see why someone who hasn't tinkered with it for awhile would think it's stupid lol but it works extremely well.

I.e. magnetic aura spam combo:

Earth 3

Rebound for magnetic aura in earth attune

Earth overload

Aftershock

Repeat

Doesn't need to be that exact order of course. And meteor showers, ice spike eruption and air 2 all hit very hard still. Would recommend giving it a try but it's not for everyone/every situation

To be honest with you, it is sorta what I was hoping to achieve running Catalyst (I take boons on sphere and boon duration traits, stab at times like wall defense or if I know I'm going to push deep) but reading your remarks I think you're right though, even switching water in while Catalyst would be suboptimal to running Tempest, plus the staff changes should be going live tonight.

I'm going to dip into this if I get a chance to play later, Tempest to me has always been about Aura share, even core I tended to run x/water/arcane as a d/d front liner and it's a philosophy I've never been able to shake. May as well play it to it's fullest staff potential.

Appreciate your input.

Edited February 14, 2023 by MarzAttakz.9608
Typos

[MarzAttakz.9608]

On 2/14/2023 at 4:32 PM, solemn.9670 said:

This is going to be an unpopular opinion but I've found this to be the best possible choice for clouding in small to semi-large groups on mag. Ditch cata, it does less damage than staff weaver and is less supportive than staff heal tempest. The real best in-between for when you need to babysit your group/pugs but also pull hard damage to compensate for no one knowing wth they're doing, run full glass staff tempest.

Took some getting used to because I was very rusty on Tempest but you're absolutely right. Still dip into Cata and Weaver here and there but mostly been playing your spec with small variations depending on the situation and it's SOLID.

Thank you Solemn ✌🏼🤜🏼

[solemn.9670]

15 hours ago, MarzAttakz.9608 said:

Took some getting used to because I was very rusty on Tempest but you're absolutely right. Still dip into Cata and Weaver here and there but mostly been playing your spec with small variations depending on the situation and it's SOLID.

Thank you Solemn ✌🏼🤜🏼

Yw dude ! 🤘