Eddie.9143 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Title, buggy af, too much cc, too many defensives, tether so you can't create distance, the whole thing just works too well together, not enough room for counter play, eventually you'll run out of stun breaks 4 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Question: Did you play it at all before writing this? If not play it since it is so dumb, everyone should be able to play it. After like 10 games return and tell me if ALL the statements are true. 1 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxsdgxX.8109 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said: Question: Did you play it at all before writing this? If not play it since it is so dumb, everyone should be able to play it. After like 10 games return and tell me if ALL the statements are true. It's already like that. Because of warrior's inherent low skill barrier of entry, many people are already playing it (besides ele). Play poorly, perform decently good. Play good, absolute domination over everything else. They are only a little behind Eles. And then theres a big gap after Ele and SB. 1. Ele (And Im not saying just Cata because Ele has multiple competitive builds right now. Amazing state of balance.) 2. SB 3. --- 4. --- 5. The rest and with barely one build being viable. Edited February 12 by XxsdgxX.8109 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 minutes ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said: It's already like that. Because of warrior's inherent low skill barrier of entry, everyone is already playing it (besides ele). Play poorly, perform decently good. Play good, absolute domination over everything else. They are only a little behind Eles. And then theres a big gap after Ele and SB. 1. Ele (And Im not saying just Cata because Ele has multiple competitive builds right now. Amazing state of balance.) 2. SB 3. --- 4. --- 5. The rest and with barely one build being viable. Haven't seen single Bandwagoner play SB on a decent level. Even the condi bunker build bandwagoners manage to feed on it. Also the statements seems from the "I haven't even tried it" type. All I'm saying if it is so Easy and Dumb, people should be carrying me in games with it, but haven't. All these "meta" lists seem to be parroted over and over without much backing it up by people don't understand why something is strong or not for where and when. Also is there a point in all these threads, there are like 20 that say the say the same thing, you can bump the previous ones, there are some with value to them where people tested it and said what is stronger. Ele OP , SB OP cause it can survive ele, we get it, but it is getting nerfs next week and some stuff is getting buffs. If this thread is some type of feedback for the balance patch is kinda garbage, cause it is based on subjective feelings and not objective reasoning. 1 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okhu.7948 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Play better. 2 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Honestly, hammer should get reworked. It's design premise of "I don't let the enemy play the game" is unhealthy and annoying for new players. Other builds got nerfed because newcomers were not able to handle them. Spellbreaker is another such case, except that it is insanely more annoying than these other nerfed builds ever were, because literally sitting in knocked down status the entire fight while you watch your health going down is probably the least fun game experience you can have. Change hammer. Give it some other strengths instead of loading all the power budget into "you will lie on the ground and you will like it". 1 4 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said: Honestly, hammer should get reworked. It's design premise of "I don't let the enemy play the game" is unhealthy and annoying for new players. Other builds got nerfed because newcomers were not able to handle them. Spellbreaker is another such case, except that it is insanely more annoying than these other nerfed builds ever were, because literally sitting in knocked down status the entire fight while you watch your health going down is probably the least fun game experience you can have. Change hammer. Give it some other strengths instead of loading all the power budget into "you will lie on the ground and you will like it". I play it out of spite for the Mech/Scrapper/rifle nerfs. Boncc with hammer is a plus. Edited February 12 by Kuma.1503 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Of course it's fun, but you gotta be the spb 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 9 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said: Honestly, hammer should get reworked. It's design premise of "I don't let the enemy play the game" is unhealthy and annoying for new players. Other builds got nerfed because newcomers were not able to handle them. Spellbreaker is another such case, except that it is insanely more annoying than these other nerfed builds ever were, because literally sitting in knocked down status the entire fight while you watch your health going down is probably the least fun game experience you can have. Change hammer. Give it some other strengths instead of loading all the power budget into "you will lie on the ground and you will like it". or you can just bring up the CDs on hammer to PVE values(funny enough PVE has higher CDs on hammer compared to the PvP counterparts), if the frequency of CC is the biggest gripe, though imo if you mess up too many times and eat too many of big CCs you should be punished for misplaying, this also is a detriment too overly reckless play/bad positioning. The thing is too there's counterplay to being CC'd. This isn't like WoW where you get 1 stunbreak through a gear slot. There are baked in stunbreaks on plenty of utility skills on top of things like Stability to outright counter act the effect, and proactive counterplay with blocks, dodges, blinds, instant cast teleports. If we're going to go the line of "Think of the new players" you should understand new players should try to improve their gameplay, and find solutions to combat what griefs them. The ones that don't have much bigger issues than getting stunlocked, because if it's not one thing, it's going to be another, be it stealth, eating a burst combo, not making a dent into a person using their defenses correctly, etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie.9143 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 36 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said: or you can just bring up the CDs on hammer to PVE values(funny enough PVE has higher CDs on hammer compared to the PvP counterparts), if the frequency of CC is the biggest gripe, though imo if you mess up too many times and eat too many of big CCs you should be punished for misplaying, this also is a detriment too overly reckless play/bad positioning. The thing is too there's counterplay to being CC'd. This isn't like WoW where you get 1 stunbreak through a gear slot. There are baked in stunbreaks on plenty of utility skills on top of things like Stability to outright counter act the effect, and proactive counterplay with blocks, dodges, blinds, instant cast teleports. If we're going to go the line of "Think of the new players" you should understand new players should try to improve their gameplay, and find solutions to combat what griefs them. The ones that don't have much bigger issues than getting stunlocked, because if it's not one thing, it's going to be another, be it stealth, eating a burst combo, not making a dent into a person using their defenses correctly, etc. Unfortunately the stun breaks and teles have cool downs that are much longer than the opponents CC. Their cc is back up and you're out of all your cds, and when you tried to burst you did no damage, got full countered, or line of sighted lol 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 12 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said: Honestly, hammer should get reworked. It's design premise of "I don't let the enemy play the game" is unhealthy and annoying for new players. As long as you also rework warriors so they're allowed to play the game instead of endlessly chasing your superspeed/teleport/leap/stealth build only to get blinded/spammed with weakness/blockstrings when they finally manage to get to you. People think not being allowed to play the game for 10 seconds is annoying (after they pressed their stunbreaks) but have been actively playing builds that wouldn't let war interact with them for years. Full counter fixes are fine, but the hammerbonking stays. Quote Unfortunately the stun breaks and teles have cool downs that are much longer than the opponents CC. Their cc is back up and you're out of all your cds, and when you tried to burst you did no damage, got full countered, or line of sighted lol Skill issue Im joking but I'm not. You got outplayed and want to revenge nerf. You got to press every button on your bar in this situation and still want extra chances. What should the warrior do instead, if not justified to stunlock you after you pressed every button you could? Edited February 13 by Azure The Heartless.3261 5 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie.9143 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 12 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: As long as you also rework warriors so they're allowed to play the game instead of endlessly chasing your superspeed/teleport/leap/stealth build only to get blinded/spammed with weakness/blockstrings when they finally manage to get to you. PPeope think not being allowed to play the game for 10 seconds is annoying (after they pressed their stunbreaks) but have been actively playing builds that wouldn't let war interact with them for years. Full counter fixes are fine, but the hammerbonking stays. Skill issue Im joking but I'm not. You got outplayed and want to revenge nerf. You got to press every button on your bar in this situation and still want extra chances. What should the warrior do instead, if not justified to stunlock you after you pressed every button you could? Warriors should be countered by extremely mobile builds, extremely mobile ranged builds are typically countered by thieves and rangers, currently extremely mobile builds with lots of stun breaks still lose to hammer spb, which is not how it should be 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Eddie.9143 said: Warriors should be countered by extremely mobile builds, extremely mobile ranged builds are typically countered by thieves and rangers- Thieves and rangers are extremely mobile ranged builds (because people got all the melee thief builds nerfed), so they also counter warrior. Do you see the problem? That oversight is why the warriors are hammerbonking you now. Edited February 13 by Azure The Heartless.3261 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie.9143 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: Thieves and rangers are extremely mobile ranged builds, so they also counter warrior. Do you see the problem? That oversight is why the warriors are hammerbonking you now. I haven't been seeing my rangers beat warriors tbh, I see tempests and catas having the most success by far, also really well played holosmiths are having success, and that's okay with me because holo is hard to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Lets play a game. Out of the 9 professions pick 2 that they get to hard counter, while 2 others get to hard counter them instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie.9143 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Lets play a game. Out of the 9 professions pick 2 that they get to hard counter, while 2 others get to hard counter them instead. It's hard when the game isn't balanced around 1v1 situations, but mechanics that are obviously over performing or game breaking should be hot fixed, cata should have been nerfed 55 days ago. Arena net could definitely get to a comfortable balance if they made more frequent changes and actually listened to the community. The problem is after this patch we won't get another decent sized patch for a fiscal quarter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrownyClown.8402 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 It has counters. Those counters are all getting wrecked by catalyst probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said: Unfortunately the stun breaks and teles have cool downs that are much longer than the opponents CC. Their cc is back up and you're out of all your cds, and when you tried to burst you did no damage, got full countered, or line of sighted lol I don't think stunbreaks are supposed to outpace CCs if you're just eating them like snacks, it's there to give you opportunity/recovery. It's part of the skill game to try and exhaust defenses that would otherwise deny a kill, and keeping tabs on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie.9143 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 10 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said: I don't think stunbreaks are supposed to outpace CCs if you're just eating them like snacks, it's there to give you opportunity/recovery. It's part of the skill game to try and exhaust defenses that would otherwise deny a kill, and keeping tabs on them. the amount of time you have not cc'd is not enough to land a kill is what i'm saying. you wont get past all the warrior defensives, line of sighting, use of terrain etc. their cc will be back up after they cycle thru them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotride.2187 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) From the whole kit only hammer 3 bothers me since its 600 range and its kinda fast. The rest are melee or the burst leap you can dodge even if blindfolded. If you have swiftness you can litterally walk away from almost every weapon skill including dagger. If I can fight it on the old str gs/dagger build, no idea what you are playing if you cant. Even less idea why you expect to beat a meta build with it. Its the defense gs/dagger build that is broken. It and the longbow/OH sword condi bunker. Hammer is too easy to avoid even by war weapons standard. Edited February 13 by Hotride.2187 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damocles.4908 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Hammer sp is thee most predictable build out there that you literally know what attacks are coming....so you know dodge... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Damocles.4908 said: Hammer sp is thee most predictable build out there that you literally know what attacks are coming....so you know dodge... Your not getting the point at all m8.... /s The people complaining about CC have literally 0 clue about the opposing builds, with 0 interest in learning about them.... and even less interest in learning counterplay. They dont know the animations of the CC skills.... They dont know what to dodge... They dont know what skills they can just eat and move on... They stunbreak every poopy 1 second Daze..... and most of them have not found the dodgekey yet. but they know that they died...... and they dont like dying. Edited February 13 by Sahne.6950 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyrat.2378 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Quote buggy af please elaborate further Quote too much cc Yes, that's warrior ir nutshells since he has to literally stand next to you to actually do something (blame ANet for pushing warrior into this very one dimensional playstyle) Quote too many defensives that is arguable, compared to something like catalyst or certain mesmer specs Quote tether so you can't create distance, tether is not always best option, makes you more vulnerable to conditions, but yes, it is supposed to help warrior to keep target close to them instead of relying heavily on hard CC (as explained above) Hammer is very predictable and very telegraphed. Is it fun to be on receiving end? No. Yet you lose lot of mobility and basically all of the damage is loaded into hammer 2 combined with hammer 5 for reset. I am surprised that you are not complaining about catalyst that is pooping out auras and AoEs 24/7 white still being able to pressure you regardless of whether you are melee or ranged. kitten I find even mesmer, regardless of spec, more annoying to deal with than Spellbreaker, due to how difficult it is for me to read it's abilities and figure out how that class actually works (not complaining btw., this is just l2p issue, but lot of times I have no idea when he used his defensives due to lack of visual cues). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, Greyrat.2378 said: I am surprised that you are not complaining about catalyst OHHH he is complaining about catalyst.... This guy spawned 8 QQ-threads within the last 48 seconds. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie.9143 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said: OHHH he is complaining about catalyst.... This guy spawned 8 QQ-threads within the last 48 seconds. I'm calling it all out so maybe we can enjoy a decent game together boyos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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