Re: Studio Update - Speculation on Future Specializations/Professions?

[SRMorgan.6124]

Having read the latest Studio Update, I like this revamp of ArenaNet's business model overall, since I think it will allow them to deliver more diverse content in smaller chunks of time. It also, I believe, means that they can more easily balance new content, since the larger part of it will be released with the initial small expansion, and then they can update/change things that don't work/are out of tune/etc. in the interim between updates. Pretty much like the jade bot updates, which allow us to now have the bot follow us as a mini, show its skins, change its effects, etc. A feature which should have been available from the start, but more than likely wasn't ready for the initial release.

The only thing that is very vague in this statement is what are their plans for future Specializations and, potentially, Professions? I know not everyone agrees, but what I look forward to the most in an expansion is the new Specializations, as well as the the corresponding new weapon/skills/ultimate abilities that each profession gets. In other words, I prefer a new subclass for my Elementalist over a new Strike mission (again, I appreciate that not everyone feels this way). I feel like they should be more upfront about this, since no matter how many profession updates they make, ultimately, new Specializations are what delivers genuine new playstyles and change the meta.

[As a side note, maybe now ArenaNet can finally make unique Shatters for Mirage, add an F5 for core Elementalist, since it pretty much lacks a special mechanic when compared to the Specializations, and update the Spellbreaker Meditation skills, which all feel so lacklustre.] 

Moreover, if they've decided not to make more Specializations for the nine core Professions, does this mean they plan on releasing new Profession(s) with expansions? I could see that working as a next step, since rather than working on 9 Specializations, they only need to make 1 new Profession, and over the lifecycle of the expansion deliver 3 Specializations for it. Thus, theoretically within a few years we should have 3 new Professions (light/medium/heavy armour), as well as 9 new specializations to go with them. Plus updates to the core 9 professions/specializations. 

Or do they plan to add new weapons to existing Professions, instead of new Specializations? I can speculate how, for instance, giving Elementalists access to torches or shields will open new gameplay options for the Specializations too, or giving Necromancers short swords, or giving Thief off-hand sword and/or greatsword... Is this what they intend to do, when mentioning 'new gameplay and combat features', or something else entirely?

While I appreciate the update and roadmap, I can't help but feel that, surely, they must have foreseen that the new Profession/Specialization question will be inevitably brought up. So I wonder why they opted to not address it directly - are they still figuring out internally what the future holds in this area of the game? Are they planning to discuss it in tomorrow's stream? In a future roadmap? 

I know no one has the answer to this, but I am curious what everyone else's thoughts/forecasts/impressions on the topic are? Have we seen the last new Specializations for GW2? Or is the lack of information an oversight on the studio's side? Personally, I'd rather it be the latter, since no matter how many times they update Mantras and Cantrips, ultimately, these are the same spells we already know, and changing a skill or two... in a build or two will not be much of a new way to play one's character(s) in the long run. 

Bottom line, thanks for bearing with my rambling thoughts. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by SRMorgan.6124

[Dadnir.5038]

If you ignore the fluff of the Studio update, it just mean that they want to now call "expansion" what they used to call "living world seasons". It's an approach they tried a few years ago, stating that a season "is worth an expansion". They point out the fact that it will be less expensive than the previous expansion which basically mean that the players will need to pay for their LWS.

Will there be new specializations in each "expansion"? Most likely not. Objectively, here is more or less the road map for the next few years:

• August 2023 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• The playerbase discover that it's not what a player would call an expansion.
• February 2024 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• At this point people start asking for a true expansion
• July 2024 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• More unrest in the player base.
• Feb 2025 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• Annoucement that they are on a big project that slow down their developpement rate to calm the playerbase.
• October 2025 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• Annoucement that they work on a big expansion and will resume with the old Living world season.
• Expansion with a new set of specializations released somewhere in 2027.

EoD era become PoF era 2.0.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Dadnir.5038

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

36 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

If you ignore the fluff of the Studio update, it just mean that they want to now call "expansion" what they used to call "living world seasons". It's an approach they tried a few years ago, stating that a season "is worth an expansion". They point out the fact that it will be less expensive than the previous expansion which basically mean that the players will need to pay for their LWS.

Will there be new specializations in each "expansion"? Most likely not. Objectively, here is more or less the road map for the next few years:

• August 2023 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• The playerbase discover that it's not what a player would call an expansion.
• February 2024 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• At this point people start asking for a true expansion
• July 2024 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• More unrest in the player base.
• Feb 2025 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• Annoucement that they are on a big project that slow down their developpement rate to calm the playerbase.
• October 2025 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• Annoucement that they work on a big expansion and will resume with the old Living world season.
• Expansion with a new set of specializations released somewhere in 2027.

EoD era become PoF era 2.0.

I'd that is the intent then large swaths of the player base would quit. New classes, and in GW2 especs, are some of the biggest draws to purchasing the expansion.

[SRMorgan.6124]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

• August 2023 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• The playerbase discover that it's not what a player would call an expansion.
• February 2024 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• At this point people start asking for a true expansion
• July 2024 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• More unrest in the player base.
• Feb 2025 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• Annoucement that they are on a big project that slow down their developpement rate to calm the playerbase.
• October 2025 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• Annoucement that they work on a big expansion and will resume with the old Living world season.
• Expansion with a new set of specializations released somewhere in 2027.

 

So... Icebrood Saga 2.0? I am trying to remember how well that went, but am struggling since the saga is no more, and instead we have Living World Season 5. 😅

[Serephen.3420]

Yeah...not holding much confidence in how this is looking so far. I did like that they mentioned new strikes and fractals, but that was pretty much it. Without new specs or skills or weapons(they don't necessarily all need to come as one I guess) it'll be...how do I put it... short lived. Replayability would go done, there would be nothing new about your character to learn. While I am probably one of the few people who is interested in the story/lore I know it's not enough to carry their expacs.

[Beddo.1907]

I doubt Anet would want to add more professions and especs any time soon, even with a full expansion. They already have their hands full with balancing 9 classes and 27 especs and there is about 4 balance patches a year (based on this and last year with CMC lead). 

Also we know nothing about the size and quality of the "mini-expansion", so maybe they will add especs after they clean up the balance. (I'm 99% sure there will be no new classes, since rev was added just to get a 3rd heavy armor.)

[draxynnic.3719]

I think they're being deliberately circumspect. I think it would be a bad move to just stop elite specialisations, but on the other hand, if they want the small expansions to come more often than every couple of years, they probably don't want to commit to a new set of elite specialisations with every single mini-expansion. 

[sajah varel.9261]

From how i read it, unless there is an explicit statement saying they'll continue adding elites spec (or at least adding a way to get more skills and weapons on classes), I understand that they won't add anything else to classes and will only add masteries (which sucks, especially for pvp).

 

Which imo, is a bad move considering character gameplay additions are the number 1 expansion seller.

 

I don't know about others, but if there is no gameplay addition in future expansions, that can make me stop playing the game.

Edited February 14, 2023 by sajah varel.9261

[Dadnir.5038]

17 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'd that is the intent then large swaths of the player base would quit. New classes, and in GW2 especs, are some of the biggest draws to purchasing the expansion.

You've seen how long they needed just for showcasing and get feedback of the playerbase on their EoD e-specs, they can't realistically be intent to launch new e-specs every 6 months like they say they will launch "mini-expansions". If we look more closely, it's less "just a living world season" per x-pac and more "a living world season + either a fractal or a strike" per x-pac that they are selling.

They are telling us: "We hear you! You want more end game content! We will bundle it with new Living world Season pack and maybe even have a deluxe edition for each with exclusive skins." And yes, there are plenty players that beg for new end game content.

If you think carefully about it, it will make them appear a lot busier to their investissors as they do communicate a lot more for expansions than for living world season and it will keep on their toes the more casual players (the ones that use money instead of converting gold). Furthermore, it's a model that work for many other games (even if the hardcore player base hate it)

[Fueki.4753]

Given that the content will be sparse in comparison to proper expansions, if they don't add specializations, I don't think I would buy the expansion without a significantly reduced price.

Less than half as much content, no specializations and Masteries that equal grasping at rotten straw (based on IBS and EoD) mean the price should be no more than one third of a regular expansion.

[Chips.7968]

18 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

• August 2023 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• The playerbase discover that it's not what a player would call an expansion.
• February 2024 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• At this point people start asking for a true expansion
• July 2024 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• More unrest in the player base.
• Feb 2025 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• Annoucement that they are on a big project that slow down their developpement rate to calm the playerbase.
• October 2025 new little expansion (basically a Living world season)
• Annoucement that they work on a big expansion and will resume with the old Living world season.
• Expansion with a new set of specializations released somewhere in 2027.

You forgot to include Nov 2026, Alliances Beta 12 event.

[Infinity.2876]

They may add new weapons and trait lines to core.

 

They may add selectable mechanics (Instead of mechanics being tied to a trait line you could have 3 core trait lines, elite spec skills, and elite spec mechanics but not have elite spec trait line)

 

They could make all professions able to wield all weapons.

 

Essentially what they said was that they are changing how they are doing things going forward.

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

If they didn't mention it it's because it's part of their strategy or plan. They will tell us, eventually. 

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

I do think from now on elite specs will work differently. Maybe even through masteries, with different masteries affecting skills and traits in a particular way? Curious to see how they go about it 🙂 But at the same time would like to get at least 1 more "traditional" elite spec.

[Aravind.9610]

I think they mean, they are adding all the expansion level content and selling upfront (including elite specs), but this time the following LS will be sold as part of the expansion and not something you need to buy separately if you didn't log in at the time of its release. This has been a player complaint for a long time now with LS2/3/4. Even if players bought the whole bundle of expansions at once, they found out they still needed to pay more to get the LS through gemstore. Only now this won't be the case going forward.

I could be wrong, and they could add Icebrood Saga level content, which is trash. But I guess we have to wait and see.

[SRMorgan.6124]

I was listening to WoodenPatotoes yesterday, and am thinking he might be correct in suggesting they won't release full Specialisation sets. Though I disagree with his assessment of only doing two per mini expansion - realistically, I think if they went that route they'll do three, one for each armour class. Which, I guess, works, considering that most of us play multiple, if not all, classes. Though it will also mean that if you're a, say, diehard Necro and dislike everything else, you may end up waiting, whether you're in the first round or the last. 

My growing suspicion is that since this is a new era, so to speak of the story, we'll start getting a new profession per expansion, with specs added in follow up patches, kind of like with Revenant. This way they can keep tinkering with traits in classic 9, while promoting new expansions with the likes of Ritualist coming back, or something similar. One new profession/spec at launch and two specs over the quarterly patches should be doable, if they really want to go in on this model. 

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

Assuming they're going for 1 expansion a year, I think the amount of playable content will be enough, and might actually be better than the average Gw2 year. But...

They're going to have to add new combat options in place of the skills and abilities we have now, or these expansions are not going to sell. In a game like this you need new options to keep things from getting stale, and to actually entice players into buying these packs.

Now, they could add individual weapons and slot skills. However, we already know from gw1 that this is even more of a balancing headache than elite specs. This is the whole reason they gave for creating elite specs in the first place: at least when adding Mechanist they didn't have to worry about broken interactions with Hammer or Gyros. Considering this, I think in the long run Elite Specs are still the least costly way for them to implement new combat options.

Now, 9 elite specs per year is obviously not feasible, so they might go for a few each expansion, or develop them over 3-4 years and release them all in one expansion (leaving the others more empty, with other new features to compensate). In the latter case, they need to announce this plan around the release of the first expansion.  If they can't manage either of these (or some other option nobody has thought of) than this business model is going to crash and burn within 2-3 years.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Blazing Rathalos.1904

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I don't see releasing a few especs at a time as feasible, and certainly not at all fair.

A new profession may work, but it would have to also come with 3 especs for it. This is certainly feasible.

Maybe via new masteries we can gain access to new weapon types as bundles.

[draxynnic.3719]

42 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I don't see releasing a few especs at a time as feasible, and certainly not at all fair.

It's feasible, but there certainly are issues of fairness if some professions end up with an extra elite specialisation while others are left waiting for months.

That said, this might be okay if they target the professions that need it the most. Considering the heavy professions, for instance, I'd probably consider it fair for revenant and guardian to wait a little longer if that means warrior can get a proper support-oriented specialisation ASAP. As long as DH and WB get the buffs they need and FB doesn't get completely destroyed, guardian in particular can probably afford to be last in the cycle.

Not sure how I'd distribute the others, but I'd probably be inclined to go necromancer first out of the scholars, and engineer last out of the adventurers (again, assuming that scrapper and mech don't end up getting completely destroyed).

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Honestly I think they could have a couple expansions worth of profession work they could do. I'm talking about totally re-hauling some aspect of professions like animations, removing and making new skills that make more sense or are better aimed at whatever goal the weapon/spec is going for, etc. For how many great ideas there are, there are some that just fall flat. Vindicator is one that was changed so much that they might as well overhaul the whole thing. The jump now reminds me of when they sped up the spirit summoning in gw1 and it looked really bad.

[SRMorgan.6124]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That said, this might be okay if they target the professions that need it the most. Considering the heavy professions, for instance, I'd probably consider it fair for revenant and guardian to wait a little longer if that means warrior can get a proper support-oriented specialisation ASAP.

I think you might be onto something here, support-oriented warrior will be something different and exciting, depending on balancing. I'd say if they go down that route, first expansion will likely be support warrior, greatsword thief (power dps?), and necromancer... so it sells. My gut says main-hand sword vampire necro, and I am sticking with it! Not exactly fair, perhaps, but with an overhaul of skills for older specialisations, they can definitely make it work! 

[SRMorgan.6124]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

A new profession may work, but it would have to also come with 3 especs for it. This is certainly feasible.

Maybe via new masteries we can gain access to new weapon types as bundles.

3 specs over 3 patches makes sense to me, at least, and I like the new masteries idea! A mastery that allows you to get a new weapon and skills, maybe with a variant or two, sounds pretty cool. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, SRMorgan.6124 said:

3 specs over 3 patches makes sense to me, at least, and I like the new masteries idea! A mastery that allows you to get a new weapon and skills, maybe with a variant or two, sounds pretty cool. 

Weapons via masteries would be some extreme homogenization though.

If the expacs don't have especs, or new weapons to use, then large swaths of the player base won't buy the expacs.

[SRMorgan.6124]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Weapons via masteries would be some extreme homogenization though.

If the expacs don't have especs, or new weapons to use, then large swaths of the player base won't buy the expacs.

Totally agree there. It will be Icebrood Saga all over again. Initial hype, quick fall from grace, extreme indifference. [And I actually liked IBS for the most part!]

[SoftPup.3048]

My guess is that new elite specs aren't off the table entirely, but it's not something they're working on any time soon, or only some expansions will come with new ones so they don't want to announce it as a core feature of all future expansions. Some of the EoD elite specs were pretty incoherent in terms of their whole theme and goals so I'd rather they work on the existing specs we have now rather than keep throwing more onto the pile.