So what's in the Jade Sea?

[EdwinLi.1284]

3 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Honestly, "we did kill him in GW1" is no longer sufficient reason for believing someone won't return anymore, after all there are other NPCs who inexplicably returned in GW2 despite being killed in GW1, or moving on to another realm entirely. Turai Ossa, for example, moved on to the Hall of Heroes after the Prophecies PC became Ascended, but in GW2 we see him chilling out in the Temple of Ascension (Dunes of Despair mission area). Similarly, we have many ghosts of killed GW1 minor foes, like the White Mantle Demagogue from Aurora Glade, and defeated ghosts we were told were sent off to the Mists returned to their haunting spot in GW2 - Murakai and Primeval King Jahnus for prime examples. Even Urgoz is stated to be capable of returning in EoD.

ANet has brought back so many entities from GW1 that were set up as being settled matters, I can't see "we settled the matter" as being a reason to doubt anything else will return. It isn't quite as bad as WoW, since WoW brought back major figures who were dealt with through huge sacrifices, while GW2 is only bringing back side content foes, but it wouldn't surprise me at this point if "somehow, Abaddon returned" ends up playing out.

I don't think Kanaxai's origins need to be explained. He was a demon, a Nightmare Demon to be specific, and mentions being from the Nightmare Realm - another name for the Realm of Torment. We know the origins of demons, they are born from malevolent energies in the Mists, so Kanaxai is probably the same. And that's fine to leave it as such.

Nothing can be "before the Dragon Cycle was created" since no life existed on the world before Soo-Won created her children based on her dialogue in EoD.

That being said - Kanaxai was only "dug up" because the Jade Wind trapped him in the cave initially, so anything else found would have been capable of free reign before the Jade Wind as well.

 

That is mostly the assumption people assume about Kanaxai but that is just what it has been since GW1, assumptions people just learn to accept as what it is to keep Kanaxai as this Mysterious being that need no explanation. Kanaxai is basically a character that does not have any lore but have lore placed on him based on other parts of GW series lore based on what he only says and what NPCs called him.

 

Either way we will get details soon anyways about what this whole Jade underground cave horror location is about and if this may lead to something new or something old from GW1.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

24 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

 

That is mostly the assumption people assume about Kanaxai but that is just what it has been since GW1, assumptions people just learn to accept as what it is to keep Kanaxai as this Mysterious being that need no explanation. Kanaxai is basically a character that does not have any lore but have lore placed on him based on other parts of GW series lore based on what he only says and what NPCs called him.

It isn't an assumption that Kanaxai is a nightmare demon, nor is the origin of demons in general an assumption. He is explicitly called that in the Factions Prima Guide and, I think, in-game as well. And Kanaxai has plenty of lore about him, which includes but is not limited to:

• Kanaxai is a Nightmare Demon.
• Kanaxai mentions the Nightmare Realm a lot (which is used by Forgotten, Margonites, and other NPCs to refer to the Realm of Torment on occasion in Nightfall).
• Kanaxai is speculated by Luxons to be the source of the Oni.
• Kanaxai gives people literal nightmares and hallucinations, driving them insane and hostile and into his servitude, very Lovecraftian-style (which is a go-to staple for ANet devs when they want to do horror/creepiness tbh).
• While Kanaxai was trapped in the Deep, located east of Cavalon, he and his Nightmare Horde had influence in Aurios Mines far to the south.

The closest thing to an assumption in what I said would be that Kanaxai likely shares the same general origin as every other demon in Guild Wars - born from some sort of coalescence of malevolent energies / spawning pool in the Mists. But he isn't that mysterious. It's just that you gotta breadcrumb it together unlike Urgoz or other elite mission foes. Hell, Mallyx is more mysterious than Kanaxai if we're being honest.

Edited February 15 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

Gonna have to agree with Konig here, Kanaxi doesn't need much explanation to his origins. Hes some crazy/corrupted mist demon.

Also don't really want to see him like... suddenly return in the new map either. Maybe some remnant Oni from ages past, maybe some lore more explcitly connecting him to mist demons as a setup for a future mists demon plot, but not Kanaxi himself returned.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Gonna have to agree with Konig here,

I think I need to screenshot this Christmas Miracle in February.

[mandala.8507]

Just because it's not really been brought up, I'll note that the mouths in the teaser screenshot are the same model as the petrified worm-like creatures surrounding The Ruptured Heart and the Mouth of Torment in The Desolation.

I'm getting big Stranger Things vibes as far as the plot is concerned here, specifically season 4 vibes:

Spoiler

the main one being that there are multiple portals into the upside down

but Tyria's version of that, so thresholds to the Abyss or the Realm of Torment or the Source of the Void — whatever larger direction they plan on taking it.

I'm pretty certain Kanaxai won't be left out of this upcoming story, looking at all the themes this screenshot draws upon. He's the perfect narrative linchpin to weave together a lot of the darkness concepts in Tyria that, while seeming unrelated, are connected in some way to a grander, eternal design.

[DemonCrypto.6792]

So instead of focusing on old threat let's do a little picture reading

https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/c2e381920X1080.jpg

 

1) this picture is obviously a jade cave, but it seem to not be a jade mine or at least a abondonned one, the walls are more alike of a natural erosion cave. we can also see non-jade stone and void particules.

 

2) there is 3 unknown creature serpent/wurm like with no visible eyes , there maws are open and for 2 of them leyline energy seem to flow from or towards them, this may show were this cave is in terme of depth, no eyes and leyline seems to point toward the "abyss/ sea bed" of the jade sea. and the fact at least 2 of the creature may be alive due to the ley line magique flow.

 

3) 3 round identical (except in hight) plateforms,  they are the center Piece of the picture and the most likely place for a event/boss to be maybe a strike or  world boss (maybe a raid).

 

4) the cave seems to lead somewhere behind  the snakes but the way is covered in darkness or "blocked" by an incounter wall

My theorys:

this picture is a part of a meta event of the new map

or this is a multiple stage 10 man squad boss zone for a strike

or (wishfull thinking) this is a tease of wing 8 raid with Rama taking Glennas place.

Edited February 16 by DemonCrypto.6792

[Lord Korag.8439]

25 minutes ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

2) there is 3 unknown creature serpent/wurm like with no visible eyes , there maws are open and for 2 of them leyline energy seem to flow from or towards them, this may show were this cave is in terme of depth, no eyes and leyline seems to point toward the "abyss/ sea bed" of the jade sea. and the fact at least 2 of the creature may be alive due to the ley line magique flow.

Has anyone realized these could be tentacles ending in a mouth (similar to large Mordremoth vines seen in Silverwastes)?

[Jimbru.6014]

1 minute ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Has anyone realized these could be tentacles ending in a mouth (similar to large Mordremoth vines seen in Silverwastes)?

At least one of them appears to me to be an EoD style Leviathan, which would make sense that some of them would be frozen in the Jade Sea.

[Lord Korag.8439]

9 minutes ago, Jimbru.6014 said:

At least one of them appears to me to be an EoD style Leviathan, which would make sense that some of them would be frozen in the Jade Sea.

Basicaly, I bet it is another giant octopus shaped (lesser?/even Elder? or champ something, you know the stuff...) dragon. Frozen, hidden in the jade in recent decades and before that it was just sleeping in the depths like the others (water themed Drakkar?!) I mean, it is obviously something capable to eat/channel magic and dragons eat magic, don´t they? There are not enough Elder dragons or dragon champions in the game and those we have look very similar 😂

Edited February 16 by Lord Korag.8439

[Lord Korag.8439]

43 minutes ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

or (wishfull thinking) this is a tease of wing 8 raid with Rama taking Glennas place.

I suspect the next raid shall be Kirin Peak. Compared to already existing raids, it fits the size perfectly for "one" wing.

[Pax.3548]

48 minutes ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

So instead of focusing on old threat let's do a little picture reading

https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/c2e381920X1080.jpg

What surprises me is that you can see ley lines in the picture, I was left under the impressión we wouldn't see more of them as Aurene has absorbed all of the dragon magic, thus the magic level in Tyria should be around the same before the awakening of the elder dragons (I understood ley lines were invisible before dragons began to die).

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 minute ago, Pax.3548 said:

What surprises me is that you can see ley lines in the picture, I was left under the impressión we wouldn't see more of them as Aurene has absorbed all of the dragon magic, thus the magic level in Tyria should be around the same before the awakening of the elder dragons (I understood ley lines were invisible before dragons began to die).

As far as I am aware ley lines were never invisible before the dragons began to die, no one had found them because they tended to be underground.

[Lord Korag.8439]

8 minutes ago, Pax.3548 said:

What surprises me is that you can see ley lines in the picture, I was left under the impressión we wouldn't see more of them as Aurene has absorbed all of the dragon magic, thus the magic level in Tyria should be around the same before the awakening of the elder dragons (I understood ley lines were invisible before dragons began to die).

Aurene does not hoar all the magic in herself; basically the dragon magic IS magic, the blood of Tyria. She is more like an overseer, connected to all types of magic as other Elders were connected to one, monitoring the magic situation. Should she keep all for herself, how could we cast anything then? I mean, we are her champions, therefore able to channel her powers (I call it still a dragon corruption. We are corrupted by an Elder Dragon 🙃), however asura cities are powered by the magic too, so they would turn off etc. bloodstones etc.

Edited February 16 by Lord Korag.8439

[Sime.3681]

To me, the creatures in the preview look like petrified Jade Wurms aka Leviathans from GW1.

Edited February 16 by Sime.3681

[Pax.3548]

15 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

As far as I am aware ley lines were never invisible before the dragons began to die, no one had found them because they tended to be underground.

Around LWS 1 it was said that normally one can't see Ley lines, but as magic concentration in the world began to swell since Zhaitan's death, they became visible, and as more dragons began to die, these lines became more and more visible and colorful

[anninke.7469]

I'm actually more curious about why should we (as in the Commander) care.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

9 hours ago, anninke.7469 said:

I'm actually more curious about why should we (as in the Commander) care.

Why wouldn't the Commander care? We've spent the last decade of our lives, in in-game time, going around the world stopping threats to peace. Why would the commander stop now?

If we're in Cantha, and demons start pouring out of the Mists, why would we not go to stop them? If Purists try to sabotage the reuniting of the human nations why would we not stop them? If the Deep Sea Monster moved to attack why would we not help?

[anninke.7469]

27 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Why wouldn't the Commander care? We've spent the last decade of our lives, in in-game time, going around the world stopping threats to peace. Why would the commander stop now?

If we're in Cantha, and demons start pouring out of the Mists, why would we not go to stop them? If Purists try to sabotage the reuniting of the human nations why would we not stop them? If the Deep Sea Monster moved to attack why would we not help?

Exactly because of that. For me, the more relatable thing to do would be going home for a while after such a long time. So I wonder what'll be the incentive to stay in/go to a faraway land and solve someone else's mess. I'm not saying the Commander should refuse to help, I'd just like them to do it for a reason other than "that's what heroes do" or "Taimi needs it". 

It is also unclear whether we're in Cantha, considering the EoD epilogue took us to Divinity's Reach.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:43 AM, mandala.8507 said:

Just because it's not really been brought up, I'll note that the mouths in the teaser screenshot are the same model as the petrified worm-like creatures surrounding The Ruptured Heart and the Mouth of Torment in The Desolation.

Not sure if it's the same model, but very similar. Both Ring of Fire and Mouth of Torment have these rocks twisted into creatures and skulls. And both are connected to the Realm of Torment - it's even in the lore that the portals i nthe area are why the rock twists into these formations, being influenced by the malevolent energies of the Mists / Abaddon (which is never truly specified).

With Kanaxai talking about the Nightmare Realm - another name for Realm of Torment - it wouldn't surprise me if there's a third portal to the Realm of Torment somewhere in the Jade Sea.

It certainly could answer the aged question of how the Demonic Fortune Teller got to Cantha from the Realm of Torment before twisting Shiro Tagachi's mind to suit Abaddon's needs.

On 2/16/2023 at 9:43 AM, mandala.8507 said:

I'm pretty certain Kanaxai won't be left out of this upcoming story, looking at all the themes this screenshot draws upon. He's the perfect narrative linchpin to weave together a lot of the darkness concepts in Tyria that, while seeming unrelated, are connected in some way to a grander, eternal design.

The various darkness concepts of Tyria don't really need to be weaved together though. There can be multiple sources of evil without them being tied together.

 

Especially the Void, which is distinctly not evil according to lore - it only became malevolent due to influence from the Elder Dragons, which we neutralized in EoD. At this point it'd just be a mindless force of nature, and under Aurene's control. So hopefully they won't be tying every tiny little thing to the Void retroactively.

Though I recognize there's what seems to be Void particles on the bottom of the image, doesn't necessarily mean it's related to the rest given the area was saturated in Void. Two unrelated issues giving rise to the other, for example.

Edited February 17 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 2/16/2023 at 11:22 AM, Pax.3548 said:

Around LWS 1 it was said that normally one can't see Ley lines, but as magic concentration in the world began to swell since Zhaitan's death, they became visible, and as more dragons began to die, these lines became more and more visible and colorful

Nah, it was just that ley-lines weren't proven. At least among Central Tyria people. Ley-lines were only theorized by the asuran community until 1326 AE's research into the Thaumanova Reactor explosion proved their existence. Scarlet, of course, knew of the confirmation since the explosion in 1324-ish, while Rata Novus had been experimenting with ley-lines directly, with visibility iirc from the records in HoT, over 150 years before Zhaitan's death.

[mandala.8507]

23 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Especially the Void, which is distinctly not evil according to lore - it only became malevolent due to influence from the Elder Dragons, which we neutralized in EoD. At this point it'd just be a mindless force of nature, and under Aurene's control. So hopefully they won't be tying every tiny little thing to the Void retroactively.

The hierarchy here is actually reversed. The elder dragons only went mad because of the Void's influence on and corruption of Tyria's magic. The Elder Dragons are the neutral forces of nature and the Void is the malevolent force. The Void is also bigger than Aurene and she does not control it. She definitely is uniquely resistant to its influence compared to the previous elder dragons on Tyria, though.

And of course, good and evil are relative. The Void is just doing its thing, but when your thing is the unraveling of reality, that makes you evil to beings dependent on that not happening.

[SunRoamer.5103]

51 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

The hierarchy here is actually reversed. The elder dragons only went mad because of the Void's influence on and corruption of Tyria's magic. The Elder Dragons are the neutral forces of nature and the Void is the malevolent force. The Void is also bigger than Aurene and she does not control it. She definitely is uniquely resistant to its influence compared to the previous elder dragons on Tyria, though.

And of course, good and evil are relative. The Void is just doing its thing, but when your thing is the unraveling of reality, that makes you evil to beings dependent on that not happening.

The way it's presented in EoD, they specifically made a distinction between the Void and the Dragonvoid.

The Void, while destructive from a perspective of sentient life, doesn't seem to carry any will or sentience. It's more akin to a natural law. What Konig references is how the Dragonvoid was formed - which formed a sort of entity from the Void, imprinted to some degree with the Elder Dragons.

To be clear, the madness of the Elder Dragons had a lot to do with Void and how magic works in Tyria, but the Void itself is, as Konig said, decidedly not evil.

 

Edited February 17 by SunRoamer.5103

[mandala.8507]

20 minutes ago, SunRoamer.5103 said:

The way it's presented in EoD, they specifically made a distinction between the Void and the Dragonvoid.

The Void, while destructive from a perspective of sentient life, doesn't seem to carry any will or sentience. It's more akin to a natural law. What Konig references is how the Dragonvoid was formed - which formed a sort of entity from the Void, imprinted to some degree with the Elder Dragons.

To be clear, the madness of the Elder Dragons had a lot to do with Void and how magic works in Tyria, but the Void itself is, as Konig said, decidedly not evil.

 

The distinction isn't made to denote the degree of malevolence, but to specify that what we defeated at the end of the expansion was only the manifestation of Void in Tyria that arose from the ending of the dragon cycle and not the greater Void, which remains a looming threat.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, anninke.7469 said:

Exactly because of that. For me, the more relatable thing to do would be going home for a while after such a long time. So I wonder what'll be the incentive to stay in/go to a faraway land and solve someone else's mess. I'm not saying the Commander should refuse to help, I'd just like them to do it for a reason other than "that's what heroes do" or "Taimi needs it". 

It is also unclear whether we're in Cantha, considering the EoD epilogue took us to Divinity's Reach.

We did get time off. Its been nearly a year since EoD, so its been nearly a year in-game since EoD, by the time this new map drops.

[anninke.7469]

51 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

We did get time off. Its been nearly a year since EoD, so its been nearly a year in-game since EoD, by the time this new map drops.

Even if it is so, it doesn't give a reason to go and meddle in stuff in a country on the other side of the world like we are the only available capable person on the whole planet. So is it out of boredom? Fear of suddenly losing relevance? I guess I'll see soon enough to find out myself. What I mean by this rant of mine is that I'd be more interested in the Commander's motivation for another adventure than in the nature of that adventure (so the Commander feels a tiny bit more alive and a tiny bit less like just a player-vessel).