So, can we finally get rid of transmutation charges?

[kharmin.7683]

9 minutes ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

That about tracks with what I wrote. You got ~300 gems per day at just over 3 and half hours of playtime, and I wrote 600 gems would take you 7.5 hours, so I was off by about 20 minutes assuming 27 gold per hour.

Or you could just buy gems.  I'm sure Anet would appreciate the money.

[Gilotina.7930]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

Or you could just buy gems.  I'm sure Anet would appreciate the money.

Honestly, I don't mind doing so for nice things. 

Not a fan of having my arm twisted into doing so by intentionally making a fundamental resource kitten to grind otherwise.

[Gibson.4036]

23 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Or you could just buy gems.  I'm sure Anet would appreciate the money.

After talking about Transmutation Charges here for a bit, I am starting to think it comes down to the money. I've always been skeptical of that, because it doesn't seem like direct sales of charges would generate that much income for ArenaNet. There seems to be a general "why would anyone buy those" reaction, with a person here or there who responds, "I do".

But I wonder if it's actually the outfits that ArenaNet wants to protect. Transmutation charges are impractical if you want to be a player who has a jungle explorer look, and arctic survivalist look, a look for when you're crafting Sous-Vide Steak and Whitefish Sushi. But! You can buy an outfit in all of those themes and flip between them indefinitely without worrying about burning through a resource ever after.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

6 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Or you could just buy gems.  I'm sure Anet would appreciate the money.

Y'know all gems bought with gold are paid for by someone else, right?

[kharmin.7683]

29 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

Y'know all gems bought with gold are paid for by someone else, right?

Yes, and more gems purchased with cash is more beneficial to Anet.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Yes, and more gems purchased with cash is more beneficial to Anet.

People buying gems with gold incentivizes people to buy gems with real money and convert to gold.

EDIT:

Since you appear to be confused.

Person A buys gems and converts gems to gold
Gem to Gold conversion favors trading gold for gems due to a surplus of gems.
Person B farms gold and converts gold to gems
Gem to Gold conversion now favors trading gems for gold due to a surplus of gold.
Person C sees that the amount of gold they can get per gem has gone up and buys gems to convert to gold.

This is how the gem market has worked since launch.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Andifulated.3482

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I think what the “I’m sitting on 1000 charges” crowd is missing is that it’s not because they are so easy to acquire, but because they don’t use them often.

I PvP regularly, and currently have 320. That’s plenty for when I occasionally decide it’s time for a new look on one of my characters, or to set up a new character.

But, if I want to put on warm looking skins because I’m headed to the Shiverpeaks for a session, then change to a Canthan look for Lunar New Year, and wind up in something light for a day of battling Karla, I’m going to burn through them really fast.

What, seven to eleven charges depending for a full look change? That means me, a frequent pvper, has 30-40 changes in the tank.

Again, plenty for the occasional rework of a character’s core look, but not enough to change based on whim and context. Which doesn’t seem to fit a game affectionately nicknamed “fashion wars”.

Yeah right, I'm sure everyone here crafts a new look every time they change map 😄  But IF you want to do that, at that point just make multiple sets and swap them depending on the map you're playing, no point in constantly burning charges for that either.

4 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I wonder if we’d see more variety of skins worn in game if people could change their clothes like, you know, people change clothes. 😄

Oh, great news for you then! As mentioned above, they literally can.

 

 

5 hours ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

So, why should I be forced to engage with it? Imagine if you had to play open world, or rerun a living world chapter every few PvP matches, or pay 100 gems. Would you find that fun? Because that's basically the situation with transmutation charges.

This whole sentiment is wrong on the basis of you ignoring the fact transmutation charges are also farmable in pve content.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Gilotina.7930]

12 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

This whole sentiment is wrong on the basis of you ignoring the fact transmutation charges are also farmable in pve content.

At rate of ~1 actual work day for 3 outfit changes. I don't find that reasonable.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Gilotina.7930

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

At rate of ~1 actual work day for 3 outfit changes. I don't find that reasonable.

You can think about -made up by you- rate whatever you want, you're not forced into anything, you can farm transmutation charges in pve, so stop repeating false claims. If you're missing charges, try putting more thought into your outfit before pressing "apply" (or whatever that button says).

Edited February 27, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

6 minutes ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

At rate of ~1 actual work day for 3 outfit changes. I don't find that reasonable.

bruh.  What outfit you got that has 12 pieces?  There's only 11 slots for transmutation (Ignoring aquatic gear because there's not many skins for those) 6 armor, 4 weapon, 1 backpack. What build you running that has all 11 slots filled entirely all the time?

If you follow my maths and extrapolate it out to 28 days, that's 339 transmutation charges a month in pve.  Also, IDK why you'd not just transmute over different gear that's the same stats and keep it in your inventory if you're that obsessed with changing your outfit every map.  You can still transmute exotic/ascended armor pieces and keep them.  I do that.  One of my characters has 20 different outfits.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Andifulated.3482

[Woof.8246]

They could be offered as participation for  various  meta events like Lake Doric and Dry Tops that lost their revenue , rather than upping the gold rewards

[Gilotina.7930]

21 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

bruh.  What outfit you got that has 12 pieces?  There's only 11 slots for transmutation (Ignoring aquatic gear because there's not many skins for those) 6 armor, 4 weapon, 1 backpack. What build you running that has all 11 slots filled entirely all the time?

I didn't say anything about 12 pieces outfits. 600 gem charge pack contains 25 charges, which is 3 outfit changes if you're only changing 8 slots. Which you can get, according to your own math, after roughly 7 hours of chores gameplay

 

21 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

Also, IDK why you'd not just transmute over different gear that's the same stats and keep it in your inventory if you're that obsessed with changing your outfit every map.  You can still transmute exotic/ascended armor pieces and keep them.  I do that.

 

Because I don't have enough gear templates, whole gear sets, or anything to actually do that?

Like I don't know what you expect. I guess if this is your primary game, that's not an unreasonable expectation to have but like...I barely have two full exotic sets, much less enough for several saved sets of the same stats, lol.

 

In the end, I'm left wondering - what is the actual added value of transmutation charges? Is it money for Arenanet? Is it carrot on a stick for PvP? What is it? Because it definitely does not add any value to the transmutation system itself.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Gilotina.7930

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

Because I don't have enough gear templates, whole gear sets, or anything to actually do that?

Then play the game and make more sets. Done.

[Gilotina.7930]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Then play the game and make more sets. Done.

Okay, that does not answer the question of - what would be lost if transmutation charges were gone tomorrow and replaced with say - 5 silvers cost per transmute.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

Okay,

"Okay" as in you understand and agree or "okay" as in you dismiss anything that goes against your stance anyways?

1 minute ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

that does not answer the question of - what would be lost if transmutation charges were gone tomorrow and replaced with say - 5 silvers cost per transmute.

There can be more than one reason and more than one reason has been given. Literally make your pick, since you're not getting answer unless anet lets you in on their game -and purchase- stats and I doubt it is in any way possible.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

People buying gems with gold incentivizes people to buy gems with real money and convert to gold.

EDIT:

Since you appear to be confused.

Person A buys gems and converts gems to gold
Gem to Gold conversion favors trading gold for gems due to a surplus of gems.
Person B farms gold and converts gold to gems
Gem to Gold conversion now favors trading gems for gold due to a surplus of gold.
Person C sees that the amount of gold they can get per gem has gone up and buys gems to convert to gold.

This is how the gem market has worked since launch.

Yes, yes we all know how the gem market works.  This doesn't increase Anet's profits, though.

[Gilotina.7930]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

"Okay" as in you understand and agree or "okay" as in you dismiss anything that goes against your stance anyways?

There can be more than one reason and more than one reason has been given. Literally make your pick, since you're not getting answer unless anet lets you in on their game -and purchase- stats and I doubt it is in any way possible.

So they are either a waste of time or money making scheme. Got it.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Gilotina.7930 said:

So they are either a waste of time or money making scheme. Got it.

No and no. And you still dodged everything written above, which is interesting seeing how in your last post you were so insistent on getting your question answered.

[Gilotina.7930]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No and no. And you still dodged everything written above, which is interesting seeing how in your last post you were so insistent on getting your question answered.

I mean, most of the replies as I see them, have been answers to the question of 'how should I interact with this system'.

 

The only things that approached the reason for them to exist in the first place have been PvP carrot on the stick, and way for NCSoft/ANet to make money. And I guess attention retention scheme because it makes you farm for ages? But attention retention schemes tend to be a domain of things with subscriptions...

 

Like, I obviously don't see different answers, so either I am completely stupid and I would love to have it explained to me like I am five...or...there aren't any? The existence of the system still doesn't make sense to me as it is, when it could be so much simpler to interact with, but it isn't for...some reason.

 

Edit: I don't know about you, but I'm finding this conversation frustrating, because either I'm not getting something, we are talking past each other, or we have irreconcilable differences in approach to this game. So in order to keep my own sanity, this is probably going to be my last interaction here.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Gilotina.7930

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

I mean, most of the replies as I see them, have been answers to the question of 'how should I interact with this system'.

This does tend to be the bulk of these forum's response to any questioning of how things are designed, especially rewards systems.

Sometimes, it can be helpful. "Did you know there's another way to get that?" does answer individual complaints from time to time. Other times, it's just a way to deflect critique of said systems.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

16 minutes ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

I didn't say anything about 12 pieces outfits. 600 gem charge pack contains 25 charges, which is 3 outfit changes if you're only changing 8 slots. Which you can get, according to your own math, after roughly 7 hours of chores gameplay

So, you don't enjoy playing the content?  You don't have to be uber efficient to get all the gold listed there, friend, just play the content, hit the bosses, keep up with the tag during a meta event.  Go for some achievements on the side.  Most of the endgame is about the same value.
 

18 minutes ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

Because I don't have enough gear templates, whole gear sets, or anything to actually do that?

Like I don't know what you expect. I guess if this is your primary game, that's not an unreasonable expectation to have but like...I barely have two full exotic sets, much less enough for several saved sets of the same stats, lol.

 

In the end, I'm left wondering - what is the actual added value of transmutation charges? Is it money for Arenanet? Is it carrot on a stick for PvP? What is it? Because it definitely does not add any value to the transmutation system itself.

You have bags, don't you?  That's where I store my outfits.  Also exotic is cheap and easy to get, much, much cheaper than farming gold for gems for transmutation charges.  You can even get some meta attribute combinations via farming gold at the same time.
 

 

6 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Yes, yes we all know how the gem market works.  This doesn't increase Anet's profits, though.

With how many people misconstrue and misunderstand how it works, it's honestly difficult to tell sometimes.  I wish I could find this post, but John Smith (The economy guy from ages ago; they deleted their reddit account post layoffs) has said on reddit that the higher the gold value is per gem, the more people convert gems to gold.  Essentially, people buy gems when they get a lot of gold for them.  It's one of their bigger revenue streams, like keys.

 

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

Essentially, people buy gems when they get a lot of gold for them.  It's one of their bigger revenue streams, like keys.

1 minute ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

It's one of their bigger revenue streams, like keys.

2 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

like keys.

I know this. And yet, seeing it written out hurts my heart a little.

[Sobx.1758]

40 minutes ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

I mean, most of the replies as I see them, have been answers to the question of 'how should I interact with this system'.

Does it matter what "most" replies were? You were asking what the purpose of those is and there were clearly direct responses in this thread about what purpose they can serve. Pretty sure you saw them, you even listed them in your, well, retorical question about it. It's just that you won't like the answer no matter what, because in reality you don't care what their role is, do you?

40 minutes ago, Gilotina.7930 said:

The only things that approached the reason for them to exist in the first place have been PvP carrot on the stick, and way for NCSoft/ANet to make money. And I guess attention retention scheme because it makes you farm for ages? But attention retention schemes tend to be a domain of things with subscriptions...

 

Like, I obviously don't see different answers, so either I am completely stupid and I would love to have it explained to me like I am five...or...there aren't any? The existence of the system still doesn't make sense to me as it is, when it could be so much simpler to interact with, but it isn't for...some reason.

Why do you need more/other reasons now? What reason would possibly satisfy you here?

 

36 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

This does tend to be the bulk of these forum's response to any questioning of how things are designed, especially rewards systems.

Sometimes, it can be helpful. "Did you know there's another way to get that?" does answer individual complaints from time to time. Other times, it's just a way to deflect critique of said systems.

There were clearly responses with possible/probable reasons for their existence, if you didn't see them, maybe you could focus more on how selective some of this forum users' vision apparently is 😄 Basically nothing more than "this answer didn't allign with my end-goal, so it doesn't exist".

Edited February 27, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fuchslein.8639]

3 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Or you could just buy gems.  I'm sure Anet would appreciate the money.

I Hope you do youre fair Share and buy a Lot of gems every month, the way you platantly advise other people to buy gems. You know how it goes, you can also buy gems when you don't need anything, i'm Sure Anet appreciate youre Money.

[Gilotina.7930]

19 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

So, you don't enjoy playing the content?  You don't have to be uber efficient to get all the gold listed there, friend, just play the content, hit the bosses, keep up with the tag during a meta event.  Go for some achievements on the side.  Most of the endgame is about the same value.

Honestly, I enjoy some of it. But the way I interact with it, I don't make much. On my average day I make like...a gold or two a day? I tend to bounce from an activity to activity as whimsy takes me, sometimes I will complete a map meta, sometimes I won't. But after this thread, I just don't think this game is built for the sort of way I interact with it?

 

I honestly don't know. I want to like it, but so many things just don't make intuitive sense to me. And that's frustrating to me, and maybe that just means GW2 isn't a game for me.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Gilotina.7930