Bunny.9834 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) Thanks to destruction of Soothing Disruption, cantrips no longer have global reduction. It just gives you some weak regen and 6s of vigor. What was the reasoning behind this? Was water magic that OP??? Is there a game breaking build that uses this trait??? The only thing that this CD-reduction-traits removal is doing is really limiting build diversity because the "overused" skills from a particular line will still be used in whatever meta build. The unused skills will remain trash (cleansing fire). Not to mention that it makes that trait uncompetitive. ☠️ Edited February 19, 2023 by Bunny.9834 9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I'm not sure why they couldn't have added something back to the trait to compensate for the loss of the primary function. But I'm not surprised. CMC did the same thing with the 300s cooldown traits, making them effectively worthless and giving nothing back. Then he took a couple of years to get around to fixing it. So, I guess if history is any guide we'll see these traits become relevant again in 2024 or 2025. 8 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny.9834 Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 16 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said: I'm not sure why they couldn't have added something back to the trait to compensate for the loss of the primary function. But I'm not surprised. CMC did the same thing with the 300s cooldown traits, making them effectively worthless and giving nothing back. Then he took a couple of years to get around to fixing it. So, I guess if history is any guide we'll see these traits become relevant again in 2024 or 2025. This is what I'm afraid of. The CD traits are the new 300s CD. RIP. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chyro.1462 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 If cantrips are so underplayed and they want to remove the cd reduction traits, may as well just give the cd reduction directly to the skills - if that was the only way people played them at all. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeyeti.8347 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) They want to remove all those -20% cd from traits , but didnt touch the trait at all after getting rid of that , those passiv feels terrible now , just look at the "conjurer" trait now in pair with soothing disruption , could at least make all skill related to it -20% cd based , and give something to the passiv to compensate the loss of 20% cd reduc . Winning a fire aura when you grab a conjure weapon ... and some vigor and regen when you use a cantrip ... talk about useless ... Ele is not the only one having to deal with that , necro warhorn got the same treatment , but at least they gave the skills -20% cd , why not our cantrips ? Edited February 18, 2023 by zeyeti.8347 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny.9834 Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 7 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said: They want to remove all those -20% cd from traits , but didnt touch the trait at all after getting rid of that , those passiv feels terrible now , just look at the "conjurer" trait now in pair with soothing disruption , could at least make all skill related to it -20% cd based , and give something to the passiv to compensate the loss of 20% cd reduc . Winning a fire aura when you grab a conjure weapon ... and some vigor and regen when you use a cantrip ... talk about useless ... Ele is not the only one having to deal with that , necro warhorn got the same treatment , but at least they gave the skills -20% cd , why not our cantrips ? They also destroyed Tricksters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBear.3961 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) Wait they didnt make cantrips cd reduction baseline with the removal of the trait ? Edited February 19, 2023 by PolarBear.3961 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarox.9601 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 They nerfed cantrips cause they were used in 90% times in wvw/pvp. Instead of buffing everything else they decided to ruin it without buffs. And charge changes....sometimes I think they are killing this already "wiping floor" class. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ragnarox.9601 said: They nerfed cantrips cause they were used in 90% times in wvw/pvp. Instead of buffing everything else they decided to ruin it without buffs. And charge changes....sometimes I think they are killing this already "wiping floor" class. Literally no one is running cantrips except for lightning flash and maybe mistform (wvw only) Also, the cantrips DID get the reduced cd. Ether renewal is 15s baseline now, armor of earth and cleansing fire were reworked and lightning flash only got the decrease in pve. If anything the biggest loser in this change is mist form which is now 75s baseline and cannot be reduced. Just checked and it's 60 seconds (traited cd). What the hell is OP talking about? Edited February 19, 2023 by Razor.6392 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddite.8620 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) mist form cd in wvw is not fair. but overall i like the change, because u dont need to take water. Edited February 19, 2023 by Jeddite.8620 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny.9834 Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 9 hours ago, Razor.6392 said: Literally no one is running cantrips except for lightning flash and maybe mistform (wvw only) Also, the cantrips DID get the reduced cd. Ether renewal is 15s baseline now, armor of earth and cleansing fire were reworked and lightning flash only got the decrease in pve. If anything the biggest loser in this change is mist form which is now 75s baseline and cannot be reduced. Just checked and it's 60 seconds (traited cd). What the hell is OP talking about? You just answered your own question. Nobody uses them besides those two skills because they're bad so WHY nerf the global CD reduction. Key word that you forgot, Global reduction. There are builds (mostly Core) that uses a full cantrip tool kit, they are just not META. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosknight.3041 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 cantrips are imo are easily near the top of the list of things ele needs to have reworked. i would make them have more group utility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus.6415 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Still don't know why cleansing fire isn't a group cleanse. It'd get useful even in pve 😮 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeyeti.8347 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Markus.6415 said: Still don't know why cleansing fire isn't a group cleanse. It'd get useful even in pve 😮 In pve it would be a great add indeed , but think about that in pvp or wvw. (the added might is purely for pvp/wvw , you don't care about self might in pve) One main problem with balancing things is thinking about the impact it has in both pve , pvp and wvw . They can change it on differents levels for each part of the game , but they avoid making it too complicated , like completely having another effect on a skill (like firebrand heal : giving aegis in wvw/pvp , and prot. and resolution in pve). They just need to get over with , separate completely each game modes , make all skills that need to be tuned down weaker in specific game modes , while making them powerfull enough in another mode , like in gw 1 ... get the skill completely different or act differently. look , elementalist ... you barely see one in pve ... and in pvp last tournament it was 5 ele versus 5 ele ... complete unbalance ... how can you balance a class like that to be competitive in each game modes , it is obvioulsy a monster in pvp , but is only played by high apm kinda elite players in pve (a very low % of the playerbase) So they really need to get ridoff their mind "If we get this skill x more y in pve , it is gonna be op in pvp ..." no just make the skill less powerfull in pvp , add more cd , remove half of the boons it get if you think it is too much. Edited February 20, 2023 by zeyeti.8347 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus.6415 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 24 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said: In pve it would be a great add indeed , but think about that in pvp or wvw. Yeah that is my problem most of the times. People screaming how op ele is and how it needs nerfing and i sit here in PvE and ask myself what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edu.6984 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Considering a wvw only perspective on this comment. I understand the reason behind removing -20% cd from traits. It makes easier to balance, and people don't feel forced to run a traitline in order to use some class of utility/heal/elite. That said, I think the traits that are getting nerfed need some sort of compensation to avoid becoming useless like the 300s traits. I run water and 2 cantrips (armor of earth and lighting flash) on my wvw roaming catalyst. That trait was good because it reduced the cd of all cantrips. Anet got rid of the reduction on the trait, but adjusted most cantrips. Now that trait is super weak. Ether Renewal: got the cd reduction baseline and a faster cast time. It is better than before. Armor of Earth was base 60s, traited 48s. Now it is base 40s and gives barrier. It is better than before Cleansing fire: got the cd reduction baseline and now has 2 charges and gives might. It is better than before. Lightning flash: was 35s base, 28s traited. Now it is 35s always. It is worse than before. Mist Form: was 60s base, 48s traited. Now it is 60s always. It is worse than before. Tornado: was 60s base, 48 traited. Now it is 60s always. It is worse than before. Overall 3 got better and 3 got worse. The problem is that the ones that got worse were probably the most used ones (mist for and lightning flash). Lightning flash already is way weaker than similar skills. Lightning Flash: doesn't break stun, 900 range, 35s cd, does some joke dmg. Blink: breaks stun, 1200 range. Shadowstep: breaks stun twice, 1200 range (and back), removes 3 condis, 50s cd. Shift signet: breaks stun, 1200 range, removes 2 condis, pasive 25% speed, 40s cd. I think Lightning Flash should either get a buff in the form of becoming a stun break and/or 1200 range, remove the dmg if needed, it is useless for the vast majority. As for the trait, maybe give us something like cantrips heal when cast, or remove a condi, or some boon like alac which most eles don't have access. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 They realy need to buff lighting flash if they are going to remove the cdr trait. Mist form is ok at 60 sec though it would be nice if they brought back the chill/reg effect it use to have. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 On 2/18/2023 at 7:47 PM, Bunny.9834 said: They also destroyed Tricksters. They destroyed many traits across the various professions and e-specs. They announced in a hyped tone that they had the ambitious objective to remove the traits providing CD reduction and, in the end, they delivered an half done work (I'm generous with the "half" it's closer to a "quarter") as there are still many traits that have CD reduction and they failed to even consider improving the traits to make them a tiny bit attractive. This thread is about the cantrips' trait but the conjure's trait took an even worse hit. I mean, who in it's right mind will want to ever take the trait conjurer now? A fire aura when picking up a conjure that you take forever to summon, have a 60s CD and that provide cluncky weapon skillsets. Worse, if your goal was producing "auras", allies can even impede you by taking the conjure on the floor. They should have extended the range of those trait they destroyed. they should have freed them from being tied to a specific kind of utility skills. If conjurer were to give me a fire aura upon using an utility skill, I'd be fine with that. Same goes for Soothing disruption. But those traits tied to a skill type, that just make them jokes. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarox.9601 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 On 2/19/2023 at 3:38 PM, Razor.6392 said: Literally no one is running cantrips except for lightning flash and maybe mistform (wvw only) What the hell is OP talking about? You dont run lightning flash for ele?Guess you dont wvw too much. You are my kind of meat, I love eles without escape, I kill them faster. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarzAttakz.9608 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Ragnarox.9601 said: You dont run lightning flash for ele?Guess you dont wvw too much. You are my kind of meat, I love eles without escape, I kill them faster. You forget we have Mist Form when downed. In that sense every single Ele runs a cantrip whether they like it or not. Probably took as long to read this as that Most Form prevented a stomp i.e. not long at all... Continue the slaughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 5 hours ago, Ragnarox.9601 said: You dont run lightning flash for ele?Guess you dont wvw too much. You are my kind of meat, I love eles without escape, I kill them faster. Did you really read what you quoted? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) On 2/17/2023 at 2:14 AM, Bunny.9834 said: The only thing that this CD-reduction-traits removal is doing is really limiting build diversity you got all of this on the wrong foot mate.... they made the CD reduction baseline for the skills. Which means, you can now use these WITHOUT HAVING TO RUN THE WATERTRAITLINE! This increases Builddiversity. As you are now able to run for example Armor of Earth on a FireWeaver. You can now also run it Catalyst... you can run it on Bunkertempest.... when previously it was only viable on Supporttempest as this was running the Watertrailine. The only thing they did was make "soothing disrupt" obsolete..... Edited February 21, 2023 by Sahne.6950 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhaid Zhem.6508 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Cantrips are okai. It's just the trait that is useless now + still need a combination with cleansing water after 10 years to be "valuable". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeyeti.8347 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) On 2/21/2023 at 9:47 AM, Sahne.6950 said: they made the CD reduction baseline for the skills. Which means, you can now use these WITHOUT HAVING TO RUN THE WATERTRAITLINE! No , cleansing fire , armor of earth , mist form and tornado have not the cd reduction (some have in pvp , but pve none) , proof : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Form https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado thats 75% of your cantrips , ... but whatever ... Edited February 23, 2023 by zeyeti.8347 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said: No , cleansing fire , armor of earth , mist form and tornado have not the cd reduction (some have in pvp , but pve none) , proof : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Form https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado thats 75% of your cantrips , ... but whatever ... Ya i keep forgetting tornado got hit as well it would be nice if they at least let you switch from blow out and suck in. Its ok if the cd are longer but they need to provide more utility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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