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Mini Expansion 4 feature idea: New Core Weapons


Knighthonor.4061

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Feature Idea for Mini Expansion 4, is new Core Weapons. This is different from the Elite Specs and their weapons. Core Weapons can be used by all specs. Each Class has to unlock them through a story mission.          
             
I have some general ideas for the weapons.         
                

*Revenant: Dagger Off Hand
Skill 4 is a mid ranged Soul Drain like channel spell. Creates a mid range weapon that pair with a future ranged main hand elite spec weapon.             
                   

*Warrior: Main Hand Spear            
This would be a new weapon type. Other classes may get this weapon through an elite spec. But not to be confused with the Polearm, this weapon type is a one handed weapon, like a lance spear.  The Auto Attack is a thowing attack. Skill Two is a pull chain. Skill 3 is a AoE sweep.           
                   

*Guardian: Warhorn            
New Support Weapon Alternative.             
                  

*Thief: Focus             
        
Functions as a Melee Fist Weapon like experience.            
             

*Engineer: Off Hand Mace          
This would be a Melee weapon. Skill 4 smashes a fire-field that increase armor of allies with protection, skill 5 blast the field counting as an explosive blow.             
                   

*Ranger: Pistol Off Hand              
Skill 4 is a trick shot that jumps between targets hit.              
               

*Necromancer: Shield              
Skill 4  is Death Charge, an attack that charges at enemy. Skill 5 is Bone Shield which summons magical bones to block attacks over 3 charges, and can be consumed early by throwing the bones at enemies or allies.            
            

*Elementalist: Long Bow                
Another 1200 ranged alternative to Staff.             
                 

*Mesmer: Shortbow         
Shortbow is Support Weapon with ally targeting.  Skill 1 is a channel ability played like a string instrument. Think Scanlan from Vox Machina.

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Some more core weapons added would be awesome.

Engineer especially is hurt by it's severe lack of core weapons. One problem rising from that is that holosmith doesn't have a proper offhand weapon to pair their sword with. You just have the choice to either pair it with a condition weapon (pistol) or with a pure utility weapon (shield). Engineer lacks a power offhand weapon in core.

The lack of mainhand weapons also basically forbids engineer to get offhand weapons added through elite specs. These offhand weapons could currently just get paired with pistol as the mainhand, which is extremely restricting when it comes to build crafting and it also dictates that if engineer gets an offhand weapon, then it must be a condition weapon, which is limiting anet's design space for this class.

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10 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

*Revenant: Dagger Off Hand
Skill 4 is a mid ranged Soul Drain like channel spell. Creates a mid range weapon that pair with a future ranged main hand elite spec weapon.             

Please no god please no. 

1. We don't need any more offhands
2. We need a solid mid/long ranged skirmishing power option. We really need that, and have needed it since forever. 

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5 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Please no god please no. 

1. We don't need any more offhands
2. We need a solid mid/long ranged skirmishing power option. We really need that, and have needed it since forever. 

Revenant need a ranged off hand that can pair with a future ranged main hand weapon like a scepter.  Right now we have nothing to pair with a ranged scepter. OH Sword is melee, and Axe 🪓 OH is a Melee CC with a distance closer. Useless for ranged. At least with this, the off hand dagger would be a cool ranged weapon.

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5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Some more core weapons added would be awesome.

Engineer especially is hurt by it's severe lack of core weapons. One problem rising from that is that holosmith doesn't have a proper offhand weapon to pair their sword with. You just have the choice to either pair it with a condition weapon (pistol) or with a pure utility weapon (shield). Engineer lacks a power offhand weapon in core.

The lack of mainhand weapons also basically forbids engineer to get offhand weapons added through elite specs. These offhand weapons could currently just get paired with pistol as the mainhand, which is extremely restricting when it comes to build crafting and it also dictates that if engineer gets an offhand weapon, then it must be a condition weapon, which is limiting anet's design space for this class.

I agree. I like the idea of engineers with off hand mace 🔨 for forging tech to pair with main hand mace in mech and Sword in Holo. Gives me Warhammer Dwarf vibes. Seem cool 😎 👌 

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33 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Revenant need a ranged off hand that can pair with a future ranged main hand weapon like a scepter.  Right now we have nothing to pair with a ranged scepter. OH Sword is melee, and Axe 🪓 OH is a Melee CC with a distance closer. Useless for ranged. At least with this, the off hand dagger would be a cool ranged weapon.

Revenant needs a second autoattack-capable condition weapon, preferably ranged, so that a non-renegade condition rev can actually have a second condition weapon to swap to rather than going mace/x and mace/y or mace/x and defensive power weapon. That's far more important than an offhand dagger that might someday pair with a future MH weapon.

Oh, and the axe CC is 900 range. Hardly melee.

29 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

I agree. I like the idea of engineers with off hand mace 🔨 for forging tech to pair with main hand mace in mech and Sword in Holo. Gives me Warhammer Dwarf vibes. Seem cool 😎 👌 

Engineer needs a core MH melee weapon so 1) future elite specs don't need to always have a melee weapon just so that the spec has a melee option that isn't a kit and 2) so pistol isn't the only option to pair offhands with unless taking an elite spec that brings a new mainhand.

Edited by draxynnic.3719
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31 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Revenant need a ranged off hand that can pair with a future ranged main hand weapon like a scepter.  Right now we have nothing to pair with a ranged scepter. OH Sword is melee, and Axe 🪓 OH is a Melee CC with a distance closer. Useless for ranged. At least with this, the off hand dagger would be a cool ranged weapon.

No we don't need an offhand, we need a mainhand so we have a ranged auto too. And we need it now, and if the earliest we are gonna get it is with a mini expansion core addition, that's the best place to add it. 

Why on earth are you hyper fixated on a future-future release of a qugganfart scepter mainhand? There is a very real problem with Revenant lacking Power Ranged options on core NOW. That needs to be addressed first, instead of "DUR FUTURE SCEPTER MAINHAND" 

 

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I was going to post this sam thread. If they feel more especs will be to difficult to balance then more core weapons are the way to go. Specifically to shore up any short comings of the core classes.

For example: Core warrior really needs a support MH to pair with Warhorn, but it also needs a MH ranger weapon. If a new core weapon is added, and MH spear isn't possible, then a MH pistol would work

AA could grant aoe might, at a high fire rate, but low damage.

Pistol 2 could be an explosive round that weakens and slows targets in the area of impact. Also grants protection in an area around the warrior. Something like a 66% upkeep on the effects in PvE, and a 33% upkeep in PvP/WvW.

Pistol 3 could be a ground target aoe that blinds and dazes foes. Allies near the impact location gain regeneration and resolution. Same upkeep ratios as above.

F1 could grant a scaling aoe healing near the warrior, and cleanse scaling amount of conditions with an attack on the target that deals moderate damage, bonus damage per boon on the warrior.

The idea is basically have an effect on the target on each pistol attack and an aoe 'morale' like effect around the warrior or aoe for supporting allies.

Primal pistol burst would lessen the healing but increase the damage dealt.

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4 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

I agree. I like the idea of engineers with off hand mace 🔨 for forging tech to pair with main hand mace in mech and Sword in Holo. Gives me Warhammer Dwarf vibes. Seem cool 😎 👌 

For some reason, I would like to get torch added to the engineer arsenal.

There are pretty cool torch skins for engineer, like this one: Sinister Welding Torch
Also it would be interesting to have a power damage focused torch for once, instead of it being once again a condition damage weapon.

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I've been waiting for a proper spear since the game released. It would fit so many classes.

Warrior: The classic pikeman.

Guardian: Lancer, AKA classic spear and shield knight.

Revenant: Should have been released with the dragoon vindicator. Seriously.

Engineer: I have so many ideas for a mechanical lance.

Ranger: Do I even have to explain this one?

Elementalist: Fire spears, glacial spikes, lightning rods, stalagmites, oh my!

Necromancer: Nothing like putting their skulls on a spike!

Mesmer: Again, so many ideas for illusionary spears / lances flying everywhere, AKA virtuoso on steroids.

 

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I'll just repeat what I posted elsewhere:

41 minutes ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

The whole idea with Elite Specs was to make balancing a bit easier by cordoning off the new skills added, limiting potential interactions. What you're suggesting might seem like less work initially, but will just create more work for the balancing team in the future.

Only thing I can imagine is giving one or two to fill up gaps in Core Professions that have a very limited selection right now. For example, an extra condi weapon for Revenant to alternate with Mace/Axe (disadvantaged because their initial design did not have weapon swap) or another main hand weapon for Engineer (So that they can add off-hand weapons in Elite Specs without requiring main-hand Pistol).

In other words, better to spend this dev effort on balancing current skills or working on future Especs, even if they don't come out every expansion.

Edited by Blazing Rathalos.1904
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23 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

They just need to let the core classes get the wepon of the elite spec you have unlocked.

I’ve been saying. This for years… the only real argument against it is that Warrior is almost out of weapons to unlock, and some people think they will just reuse other elite spec weapons with different abilities when that happens… my response to that is, Warrior is going to run out of weapons either way and they are not going to reuse weapons with different abilities. We are more likely to see all new weapons added when warrior runs out than to have ever see a weapon reused with different abilities… heck we are more likely to see the weapon reused with the same abilities even… and if its reused and the same, its really no different than just unlocking it for the whole class.

Regarding balance concerns, its far easier to balance weapon skills than entire elite spec mechanics, traits, and utilities.

Edited by Panda.1967
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23 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

I’ve been saying. This for years… the only real argument against it is that Warrior is almost out of weapons to unlock, and some people think they will just reuse other elite spec weapons with different abilities when that happens… my response to that is, Warrior is going to run out of weapons either way and they are not going to reuse weapons with different abilities. We are more likely to see all new weapons added when warrior runs out than to have ever see a weapon reused with different abilities… heck we are more likely to see the weapon reused with the same abilities even… and if its reused and the same, its really no different than just unlocking it for the whole class.

Regarding balance concerns, its far easier to balance weapon skills than entire elite spec mechanics, traits, and utilities.

I have been too it would add so much to the utility of buying an expansion and let these smaller expansion (if they have an elite spec) fill this person ideal of giving core classes more weapons all in one go.

The only issues would be balancing but the elite spec of that class wepon will always use there weapons far better then the core class could ever.

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32 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

I’ve been saying. This for years… the only real argument against it is that Warrior is almost out of weapons to unlock, and some people think they will just reuse other elite spec weapons with different abilities when that happens… my response to that is, Warrior is going to run out of weapons either way and they are not going to reuse weapons with different abilities. We are more likely to see all new weapons added when warrior runs out than to have ever see a weapon reused with different abilities… heck we are more likely to see the weapon reused with the same abilities even… and if its reused and the same, its really no different than just unlocking it for the whole class.

First of all, I have no idea why you consider it more likely that Anet will release new weapons than them reusing the same weapon for different elite specs.

Anet is cutting workload when it comes to weapons wherever they can. In all these years, Anet never even remotely has shown any interest in building up on the weapon system. We still have the exact same weapon arsenal as we had since launch. They also refused to create new legendary weapons for the underwater weaponry and made new legendary weapons all just carbon copies now with some texture changes.

There is absolutely no indication that Anet will ever add something. And using already used weapon types with a different skill set would require way less work for them than creating an entirely new weapon category (for which they also would have to build up a skin catalogue then).

_______________________________________________

Also I think there are more arguments against making elite spec weapons available for core classes. Elite spec weapons are not designed uniformly.

Some of them work with the class mechanic, while others don't at all.

Necromancer as a class would get the full benefit of such a change, because none of their elite spec weapons is inherently tied to their elite spec class mechanic. Guardian is another class that can make full use of all their elite spec weapons without losing anything.

Holosmith's sword can't get used by core engineer efficiently, because a huge load of it's power is gated behind the heat mechanic. Without heat, that weapon is terrible.

Untamed's hammer basically has half it's kit locked away if you don't use it together with untamed, because you lack the vow to switch between the sets.

Such a system change would be inherently unfair among the classes, that is the main reason I am against this concept.

 

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6 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It does strike me that having access to otherwise unavailable weapon combinations could be an interesting means of giving core professions a unique feature.

Well, except engineer I guess. No elite spec weapon of this class could get combined with any other weapon it couldn't before, they are all mutually exclusive....

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5 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Holosmith's sword can't get used by core engineer efficiently, because a huge load of it's power is gated behind the heat mechanic. Without heat, that weapon is terrible.

Untamed's hammer basically has half it's kit locked away if you don't use it together with untamed, because you lack the vow to switch between the sets.

Such a system change would be inherently unfair among the classes, that is the main reason I am against this concept.

I’ve said it before regarding Holosmith and I’ll say it again in regards to both Holosmith & Untaimed now. These were terrible design choices. Holosmith always should have had its heat mechanic applied across all weapons not just Sword. The same goes for Untamed with their Vows. Both of these weapons at their base need to be retuned to have viable functionality without their elite mechanic and then enhance all of the classes weapons by the elite mechanic. Look at Weaver, how much do you think people would have complained if its Dual Attune skill only worked with Sword mainhand? This is the same situation, and there have been countless complaints about these mechanics for these two elite specs since they were added.

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24 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, except engineer I guess. No elite spec weapon of this class could get combined with any other weapon it couldn't before, they are all mutually exclusive....

If you look at just elite spec weapons…

Revenant has 2 two-handed weapons and an offhand

Engineer, Ranger, & Thief have 2 two-handed weapons and a mainhand

Necromancer has a two-handed weapon and 2 offhands

Thats 5 professions that all only have mutually exclusive elite spec weapons…

Elementalist would gain Sword/Warhorn combo

Mesmer would gain Axe/Shield and Dagger/Shield

Warrior would gain Dagger/Torch & Dagger/Pistol

Guardian would gain Axe/Sword


not a whole lot of new options there…

Edited by Panda.1967
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4 hours ago, Panda.1967 said:

If you look at just elite spec weapons…

Revenant has 2 two-handed weapons and an offhand

Engineer, Ranger, & Thief have 2 two-handed weapons and a mainhand

Necromancer has a two-handed weapon and 2 offhands

Thats 5 professions that all only have mutually exclusive elite spec weapons…

Elementalist would gain Sword/Warhorn combo

Mesmer would gain Axe/Shield and Dagger/Shield

Warrior would gain Dagger/Torch & Dagger/Pistol

Guardian would gain Axe/Sword


not a whole lot of new options there…

You forget that the big majority of other classes have access to weapon swap. So you can still combine stuff like staff and rifle for a new thief build if you want with this change.

Elementalist doesn't have weapon swap, but at least gets access to one new combination by being able to combine sword and warhorn with each other.

Engineer is the only class which can't do any of these things. 2 2-handed weapons and a mainhand weapon combined with no weapon swap means that it is impossible to get any new weapon combinations for builds.

Edited by Kodama.6453
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On 2/21/2023 at 1:36 AM, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Feature Idea for Mini Expansion 4, is new Core Weapons. This is different from the Elite Specs and their weapons. Core Weapons can be used by all specs. Each Class has to unlock them through a story mission.          
             
I have some general ideas for the weapons.         

Possibilites

Warrior: Focus x2 (main & off hand)

Guardian: Pistol, rifle

Revenent: Pistol, rifle, Torch, Long Bow, Mace off hand, Axe Main hand

 

ranger: rifle, staff, Mace

Engineer:Greatsword, Mace off hand, Axe*2

Thief:Greatsword, focus

 

Necromancer: (idk)

Mesmer: (no clue)

Elementalist: (greatsword?)

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