TheVaultHunter.6835 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 why is anet fixing things that dont need to be fixed? they are trying to nerf catalyst fresh air build and instead are hitting all the other fresh air builds harder than cata? why is superspeed duration cut in half? its not the problem with fresh air cata why are blinding flash ammunition changes reverted? taking away defensives the weaver needs more than the cata? i feel like they are having solutions for problems that dont exist FA weaver has never been broken in any way. The amout of defenses you give up for a bit of burst is just unfair compared to say a mesmer or thief Why is it being nerfed? 4 5 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaveOnYou.2819 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 absolutely agree with you, recently while anet are trying balance, they are changing core aspects of classes which changes every build of that class and results more fundemental problems. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 One with air: Reduced Superspeed duration to 1,5 seconds when equipping the Catalyst specialisation. Thats all they had to do. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) The devs solving an issue at it's core seldom happen. They usually take a roundabout approach in solving issues that involve nerfing vaguely related things in order to weaken the factors that end up making something problematic. And this is what happen right there. The competitive community's feedback was more or less: "Since scepter rework FA cata have too much survivability and damage output". So they proceeded to nerf some coefficients and reduce the survivability tools within scepter and air magic. The feedback's quality in the competitive subforums is what it is and the fact is that they mostly look there for "feedback". Thus it's not strange that the quality of the "balance tweaks" is disappointing. Edited February 21, 2023 by Dadnir.5038 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarzAttakz.9608 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 38 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said: The devs solving an issue at it's core seldom happen. They usually take a roundabout approach in solving issues that involve nerfing vaguely related things in order to weaken the factors that end up making something problematic. And this is what happen right there. The competitive community's feedback was more or less: "Since scepter rework FA cata have too much survivability and damage output". So they proceeded to nerf some coefficients and reduce the survivability tools within scepter and air magic. The feedback's quality in the competitive subforums is what it is and the fact is that they mostly look there for "feedback". Thus it's not strange that the quality of the "balance tweaks" is disappointing. Have they given up on sPvP being an eSport yet? Slightly rhetorically asked because it seems to be as neglected as WvW was. If the answer is yes, then why insist on using it as the competitive benchmark? There really needs to absolute seperation between all three modes with a balance team dedicated and invested in each. This whack-a-mole approach to balancing is growing stale across all classes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 hours ago, MarzAttakz.9608 said: Have they given up on sPvP being an eSport yet? Years ago (in 2013 or 2014). They gave up before releasing HoT. 2 hours ago, MarzAttakz.9608 said: If the answer is yes, then why insist on using it as the competitive benchmark? There really needs to absolute seperation between all three modes with a balance team dedicated and invested in each. This whack-a-mole approach to balancing is growing stale across all classes. They finally agreed for some balance split only since 2020. Even then they are reluctant to have difference between gamemodes that go further than mere coefficients. You have professions that have been designed to rely on tools that are completely useless in PvE (necromancer for example) and other that are designed to rely on tools that are useless in competitive modes (ranger for example). And for over 10 years they tweaked things again and again in such a way that those profession can be somewhat useful in gamemodes they aren't designed to perform well. The amount of damage that have been done to achieve this much is simply stagering. After all, they've been trying to fit square pieces into round holes for years and to achieve that their main methode was to change the size the pieces. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarzAttakz.9608 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said: Years ago (in 2013 or 2014). They gave up before releasing HoT. They finally agreed for some balance split only since 2020. Even then they are reluctant to have difference between gamemodes that go further than mere coefficients. You have professions that have been designed to rely on tools that are completely useless in PvE (necromancer for example) and other that are designed to rely on tools that are useless in competitive modes (ranger for example). And for over 10 years they tweaked things again and again in such a way that those profession can be somewhat useful in gamemodes they aren't designed to perform well. The amount of damage that have been done to achieve this much is simply stagering. After all, they've been trying to fit square pieces into round holes for years and to achieve that their main methode was to change the size the pieces. Yeah man, I've been around on and off since Beta and as much as I love the game, I have very little trust in any of the balance teams they've had over the years. This mix and match between modes has become problematic and even though they don't want drastic differences between each, we've already reached a point where that is the case. Simplest solution is to bite the bullet and decouple them all. Anyone playing their preferred game mode for a decent period of time has the muscle memory of that mode, if it's different in another mode that's understandable. They can then make changes, even if just to coefficients, within context of a single mode. Simple example of Lightning Flash seldomly being used in PvE, fair usage in PvP, and a survival tool in WvW (personally it never leaves my bar) yet the cooldown wasn't adjusted for WvW after the trait changes. I'm sure there are many more such examples. TLDR; I don't have any faith in their ability to cohesively balance anything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 The risk would be also harming non-fresh air cata builds and ones who don't use scepter. I think it's unfortunately a difficult thing sometimes to balance core weapons between specs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downstate.4697 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Yes because the weavers and tempests running fa scepter was a huge problem. The superspeed adjustment was needed. That much superspeed isn’t healthy with the damage scepter offers. It’s chase and disengage potential shut out almost every other dps. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 2/21/2023 at 12:49 AM, TheVaultHunter.6835 said: why is anet fixing things that dont need to be fixed? they are trying to nerf catalyst fresh air build and instead are hitting all the other fresh air builds harder than cata? why is superspeed duration cut in half? its not the problem with fresh air cata why are blinding flash ammunition changes reverted? taking away defensives the weaver needs more than the cata? i feel like they are having solutions for problems that dont exist FA weaver has never been broken in any way. The amout of defenses you give up for a bit of burst is just unfair compared to say a mesmer or thief Why is it being nerfed? Just play other classes like ranger, warrior and guardian....or the rest if you don't mind wasting an additional week trying builds. If you have been playing ele for years before catalyst....you accumulated enough common sense and awareness that playing another class will look like a walk in the park...just jump on a gs/staff druid or condi lb spellbreaker, vindibunkard or some distortion farting virtufoso....by..somebody who mains other professions and only back on ele when it becomes decent between a nerfing cycle and another, every few years Don't waste time with pointless threads, we have been there before since 2015, good for few months then nerfed out of existence for years till they decided to buff it again for few months....only to nerf it again..lol..gw2 ele in a nutshell, catalyst is soon to become weaver 2.0...useless tryhard trash...meanwhile the rest plays specs....a trained chicken would reach top 10 with 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 The amount of confused emotes you get just shows ppl want cata dead doesnt matter what I wish the superspeed nerf was cata only, they have done specific nerfs before, it could even have been elites only This scepter buffs made core ele B+ tier, the nerfs made it B tier, the superspeed nerf made it C tier. But it's the lazy way to do it, i think all core classes have suffered that. When an elite is super broken you can see how dead the nerfs leave core, just look at engi, it's even worse than ele, all nerfs in the name of holo. 1 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVaultHunter.6835 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 13 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said: Just play other classes like ranger, warrior and guardian....or the rest if you don't mind wasting an additional week trying builds. If you have been playing ele for years before catalyst....you accumulated enough common sense and awareness that playing another class will look like a walk in the park...just jump on a gs/staff druid or condi lb spellbreaker, vindibunkard or some distortion farting virtufoso....by..somebody who mains other professions and only back on ele when it becomes decent between a nerfing cycle and another, every few years Don't waste time with pointless threads, we have been there before since 2015, good for few months then nerfed out of existence for years till they decided to buff it again for few months....only to nerf it again..lol..gw2 ele in a nutshell, catalyst is soon to become weaver 2.0...useless tryhard trash...meanwhile the rest plays specs....a trained chicken would reach top 10 with Its not like fresh air was in a particular good spot at any time there have always been specs that could perform the same amout of dmg while still having more survive ability than fresh air and it didnt bother me since release of HoT But the nerfs just seemed completly random and absolutly out of context And i could pick up some kitten r*kitten spec but i refuse 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVaultHunter.6835 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 13 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said: The amount of confused emotes you get just shows ppl want cata dead doesnt matter what I wish the superspeed nerf was cata only, they have done specific nerfs before, it could even have been elites only This scepter buffs made core ele B+ tier, the nerfs made it B tier, the superspeed nerf made it C tier. But it's the lazy way to do it, i think all core classes have suffered that. When an elite is super broken you can see how dead the nerfs leave core, just look at engi, it's even worse than ele, all nerfs in the name of holo. i think most people dont have the class knowledge necessary to understand what i m saying they see that they get clapped by catalysts so they want ele nerfs thats why theres so many confused emotes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Meta.3158 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Fresh air weaver currently is very good though I only see the same couple of eles using it well before and after the scepter reworks and this latest patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 11 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said: Fresh air weaver currently is very good though I only see the same couple of eles using it well before and after the scepter reworks and this latest patch. Weaver is the new burst. Catalyst might have better sustain but if a scepter weaver and catalyst fought each other, my money is on the weaver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVaultHunter.6835 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 11 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said: Fresh air weaver currently is very good though I only see the same couple of eles using it well before and after the scepter reworks and this latest patch. I am not really sure as to what you consider very good but i can tell you that fresh air weaver is not very good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVaultHunter.6835 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 36 minutes ago, Stallic.2397 said: Weaver is the new burst. Catalyst might have better sustain but if a scepter weaver and catalyst fought each other, my money is on the weaver Weaver is not the new burst. It has always had burst And pretty sure you would lose that money if you had two equaly skilled ele versing each other one with fa weaver the other with fa cata 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheVaultHunter.6835 said: Weaver is not the new burst. It has always had burst And pretty sure you would lose that money if you had two equaly skilled ele versing each other one with fa weaver the other with fa cata Lol, okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solemn.9670 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 On 2/23/2023 at 6:09 PM, Stallic.2397 said: Lol, okay I mean ... Is he wrong? Do you guys live in an alternate reality where scepter weaver > scepter cata? I'll have what you're having 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the krytan assassin.9235 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, solemn.9670 said: I mean ... Is he wrong? Do you guys live in an alternate reality where scepter weaver > scepter cata? I'll have what you're having I mean its not like Weaver doesn't have access to all those powerful buffed scepter skills like Phoenix, water Trident and dust devil.... Oh wait.... Edited March 3, 2023 by the krytan assassin.9235 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcH.7109 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 4 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said: I mean its not like Weaver doesn't have access to all those powerful buffed scepter skills like Phoenix, water Trident and dust devil.... Oh wait.... FA Weaver 100% does not beat FA Cata unless the cata is bad. A good cata will know how to use jade sphere to outsustain the weaver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the krytan assassin.9235 Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, jcH.7109 said: FA Weaver 100% does not beat FA Cata unless the cata is bad. A good cata will know how to use jade sphere to outsustain the weaver. Ye i 100% agree, i was just mentioning that 3 very strong scepter skills are basically locked behind double attuning (which should almost never happen in an actual fight except for air/air when playing FA Weaver). On top of that you're still locked behind a 4 sec cd after attuning to air & scepter has by far the worst dual skills out of all weapons. Im pretty sure even core FA scepter beats Weaver atm. Edited March 4, 2023 by the krytan assassin.9235 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 (edited) 22 hours ago, jcH.7109 said: FA Weaver 100% does not beat FA Cata unless the cata is bad. A good cata will know how to use jade sphere to outsustain the weaver. Not every Scepter build is FA and weaver has more stuns than Catalyst. Scepter is a hybrid weapon. And weaver is built as hybrid as well. Look at the traits buffing both condi and power simultaneously. FA catalyst barely even has cleanses. Any condi build would force them to play defensively What sustain does Catalyst specifically have besides the 3 sec block and water field? Auras are irrelevant, especially against a scepter weaver that barely uses projectiles and doesn't care about lightning aura since its a range build. I just beat Naru while he was duod in stream with another catalyst (2 catalysts on one team) and I was playing scepter weaver. Understand that there are meta builds, and then there's anti meta. Anti meta doesn't have to be prefect at everything. It just has to beat Meta It's more a question of who gets the upper hand, rather than who's better. Weaver would win cause more evades, more stuns, and constant barrier. Scepter catalyst, especially FA, is just burst. The right dodge and half of their overall threat is negated Hammer catalyst would be more of a threat given their constant melee pressure. This is specifically pvp perspective. Edited March 4, 2023 by Stallic.2397 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On 2/21/2023 at 5:35 AM, Dadnir.5038 said: The devs solving an issue at it's core seldom happen. They usually take a roundabout approach in solving issues that involve nerfing vaguely related things in order to weaken the factors that end up making something problematic. And this is what happen right there. The competitive community's feedback was more or less: "Since scepter rework FA cata have too much survivability and damage output". So they proceeded to nerf some coefficients and reduce the survivability tools within scepter and air magic. The feedback's quality in the competitive subforums is what it is and the fact is that they mostly look there for "feedback". Thus it's not strange that the quality of the "balance tweaks" is disappointing. They know exactly what to do, they just dont want to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVaultHunter.6835 Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/4/2023 at 9:08 PM, Stallic.2397 said: Not every Scepter build is FA and weaver has more stuns than Catalyst. Scepter is a hybrid weapon. And weaver is built as hybrid as well. Look at the traits buffing both condi and power simultaneously. FA catalyst barely even has cleanses. Any condi build would force them to play defensively What sustain does Catalyst specifically have besides the 3 sec block and water field? Auras are irrelevant, especially against a scepter weaver that barely uses projectiles and doesn't care about lightning aura since its a range build. I just beat Naru while he was duod in stream with another catalyst (2 catalysts on one team) and I was playing scepter weaver. Understand that there are meta builds, and then there's anti meta. Anti meta doesn't have to be prefect at everything. It just has to beat Meta It's more a question of who gets the upper hand, rather than who's better. Weaver would win cause more evades, more stuns, and constant barrier. Scepter catalyst, especially FA, is just burst. The right dodge and half of their overall threat is negated Hammer catalyst would be more of a threat given their constant melee pressure. This is specifically pvp perspective. That still makes the changes absolutly useless which is the point of the post. They tried to nerf Fresh Air catalyst and nerfed Fresh Air weaver way harder with it. And you beat someone with an ele build after counter building? Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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