GenerationX.9178 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 agree with boons, but problem be easier to remove cele or nerf it then mess with all classes. the necro trait does need looking into, it gives way to much toughness passively lol 2 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 minute ago, GenerationX.9178 said: agree with boons, but problem be easier to remove cele or nerf it then mess with all classes. the necro trait does need looking into, it gives way to much toughness passively lol Easiest perhaps, but not a real solution. It won't stop there. People will start complaining about 4 stat sets...oh wait that already happens. Perhaps it's better to address the real underlying problems. The problem of not having actual stat trade-offs and boons being way too powerful. 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said: so lets think we delete, or haed nerf cele? what will happen to light armor builds use cele, i will say u will less likely see in the arena. if u look at metabattle roaming builds, most cele user classes are mesmers, necros, eles. and there is no build beside cele top tier for them. however there are lots of non cele alternatives for other classes. if anet nerf cele then they should give to light armor classes some core advantges to overcome it ie. more mobility, more stealth, more boons etc. its kittening unbelievle that one of the most mobile class willbender is high armor, high boon, high invul class. give my free +300 toughness and/or +3000 health like other classes then i wont wear cele in my elementalist builds. Yeah give the ele the same HP stats as a heavily armored guardian or leather clad thieves! ... wait... As a sidenote, didnt some ele pro do a no armor at all video not long ago and still roflstomped enemies? Ah cant remember. Edited February 22, 2023 by Dawdler.8521 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormemperor.3745 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Gankers increased since they added 50 kill achievement. Nonsense 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenerationX.9178 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) with full cele and fury and might you smack people still. you have 50% critical doesnt even include traits / skills not included. Its really strong. Edited February 22, 2023 by GenerationX.9178 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) Just the cele Armorvalues + Fury give you 55% crit. Edited February 22, 2023 by Sahne.6950 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenerationX.9178 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) I know but you dont get buffs to everything. boondruation, healing, toughness,power it makes a huge difference Edited February 22, 2023 by GenerationX.9178 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 39 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said: Just the cele Armorvalues + Fury give you 55% crit. However, you do have a lot less power with celestial gear as well compared to Berserker for example. So the crit might end up at 55% rate but a critical hit won't hit nearly as hard as somebody who has berserker gear with a lot more power and 100% crit rate. Also you don't know whether a powerful attack will crit or not, so there's the luck factor as well. Don't just focus on the crit rate, you also need to take into account what the base strike damage of the hit is and as such when you crit it's a lot less effective with Celestial gear than with Berserker gear for example. So there I see the clear trade off with having defensive stats. However, targets in competitive modes aka players have a lot lower health pool than a lot of PvE targets and that's where things like might and vulnerability come in and ruin everything, because in WvW it's not about the highest damage possible but high enough to kill players with a couple of hits. Berserker + might is overkill already and that's why Cele + might is still enough. I mean, I don't mind if Celestial gear got banned from WvW (I don't use it anymore in WvW myself) but I don't expect it to solve much if anything at all. Something else will just come to replace it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZTeamG.4603 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 The best way to balance cele gear and boons would be to change how +stat buffs work in WvW. Instead of might giving +30 power and condi damage, for instance, it should be +___% power/condi damage per stack (with the % per stack tuned to be equal to what it would be on a full berserker in the current balance). The same goes for all other profession-specific stat buffs. That way, you're rewarded for speccing into your build's main damage stat instead of going for an all-rounder like celestial. The problem with cele is that it can use the current flat stat buffs like might to reach levels of offensive effectiveness close to the all-power or all-condi builds while still having the tankiness inherent in having all stats. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esufer.8762 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 2/21/2023 at 3:55 PM, Sahne.6950 said: tldr: if you dont rune cele in 2023... are you even roaming? i appear to be i'll check and let you know 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Do not bring the stat removal is the answer mentality from PvP into WvW. That is a failed balance mentality. Cele isn't a problem, bad profession balance is the problem. Stop making Cele a scapegoat for the poor balance of certain specs. 6 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solemn.9670 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 It's just annoying to me that we have all these interesting stat prefixes available for use in WvW, it's fun to min/max with them, but every time I restat a legendary item to anything else I am reminded that running any less than 50% cele is a major disadvantage on pretty much every ele build besides glass scepter fresh air or meme builds/zerg builds like staff DPS. Cele has not helped with the whole "ele is op" slander either since almost every ele abuses the ever living crap out of full cele. It's boring to fight and boring to play. Nor is it any more fun on other classes. I don't want to spend 10 minutes 1v1ing on a cele build vs another cele build. Nor do I want the players who somehow (????) DO enjoy spending 10 mins 1v1ing to be going around stomping my non-cele off-meta builds and acting like they accomplished something. 🤷 Build wars 2 5 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 17 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Do not bring the stat removal is the answer mentality from PvP into WvW. That is a failed balance mentality. It's what people does for downstate, so why not? 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 36 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: It's what people does for downstate, so why not? 🤷♂️ Downstate is a separate issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenerationX.9178 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 agree with down state, just remove down state skills at least Id be ok with a slow bleed out. Celestial is boring to fight it long fight I dont want to fight and most the celestial players will chance you to end the earth to get a 1v1 from my experiance haha. Long fight doesnt make fighting fun because you are probably then going to get outnumbered then your not having fun lol 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 27 minutes ago, GenerationX.9178 said: agree with down state, just remove down state skills at least Id be ok with a slow bleed out. Celestial is boring to fight it long fight I dont want to fight and most the celestial players will chance you to end the earth to get a 1v1 from my experiance haha. Long fight doesnt make fighting fun because you are probably then going to get outnumbered then your not having fun lol If there is an issue with some builds being too tanky then raise the coefficients on some strike skills. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn.2934 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) On 2/21/2023 at 3:53 PM, GenerationX.9178 said: Celestial gear in wvw. It was removed from pvp and needs to be done to wvw. Its ruining roaming even more and even small scale fights. Celestial fights last for ever and if they are running a support well see you next match up. If you take burst or condition builds to counter it gets shut down because agian they have more sustian. I dont enjoy being pressured to play celestial because its (meta) and easy to play. I am pretty sure new players try wvw run into celestial cant obtian it yet because they are new and are overhelmed and dont try wvw agian. I am not the best player in the game but I can fight a decently vs celestial build but in experianced players hands different story. Normally I try +1 or more a celestial build then they get mad dm me about how bad I am and they were 1v3ing LOL. I am not sure why id willing want to 1v1 celestial build. It hard to kill celestial builds why do you think so many people play them. At some points me and my roamer friends or small groups have had enough fighting and most them leave. I tend to still roam around, run into those builds and try to not fight and since I am only content they chase me down even though I dont even want to fight them. I dont exactly know what do about it, but its really frustrating. This I dont think is such a problem for zerg groups, but small scale and roaming its terrible. I fail to unstand one thing from the game, you have amazing skill animations and design why wouldnt you promote small scale battles where you can see whats happening and admire the awesome battle. Rather then oh dodge all red circles. Probably wont get heard and all celestial players will tell me to just play celestial but worth try. /end rant wvw is a pvp extension of pve. press the link to understand why this is why celestial removed only from pvp. wvw is not pvp, where someone from the 1st day can dominate the arena. it's more like life and WAR where time and best choices (strategy) during time rewards the players. if devs remove celestial they will send the time players spent to create their celestial sets to the garbage and they will disappoint them and they will cancel the core element of all RPG games and mmo are RPG games at the end of the day... TIME time is making you better in RPG games while it's not necessary for pvp. sometimes time is working against you in pvp!!! /start rant you may never be good at pvp during time whatever you wear, even celestial! /end rant Edited February 24, 2023 by Reborn.2934 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solemn.9670 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 8 hours ago, Reborn.2934 said: wvw is a pvp extension of pve. press the link to understand why this is why celestial removed only from pvp. wvw is not pvp, where someone from the 1st day can dominate the arena. it's more like life and WAR where time and best choices (strategy) during time rewards the players. if devs remove celestial they will send the time players spent to create their celestial sets to the garbage and they will disappoint them and they will cancel the core element of all RPG games and mmo are RPG games at the end of the day... TIME time is making you better in RPG games while it's not necessary for pvp. sometimes time is working against you in pvp!!! /start rant you may never be good at pvp during time whatever you wear, even celestial! /end rant Wise and well said. 👏 ...I still think fighting cele in WvW roaming is garbage and should be changed tho 😹 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sereath.1428 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) On 2/22/2023 at 5:00 AM, Sahne.6950 said: I still believe, a set that has ~+40% more stats than other sets is a problem. a full ascended 3stat-set will give you 3302 Totalstats. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAYZ2AA-zRIYRUwDAA-e While a full Celestialset will give you 5751 Totalstats. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAYZ2AA-zxIY1oiHAA-e THE DIFFERENCE IS MASSIVE! ⭐ It is asinine too see this many people not finding a problem with Celestial giving over 74% more stats than regular 3 stat prefixes. And over 59% more stats than 4 stat prefixes such as Marauder. A 4 stat prefix like Marauder only gives 9% extra stats over a 3 stat prefix (3610 for a 4 stat vs 3302 for a 3 stat)http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAYZ2AA-zRJYiRBPAA-e This community is hopeless and very likely the reason why the devs havent done anything about Celestial, out of fear of backlash. - And by the way, this is not the same as asking for the garbage sPvP amulet system to be brought to WvW.Celestial only became problematic after receiving 1278 more stats for free. It was only buffed that hard to help the many PvE players that fail hard to have a functional build (free set from boost), WvW was a complete afterthought. Edited February 24, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109 2 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 On 2/22/2023 at 4:43 PM, solemn.9670 said: It's just annoying to me that we have all these interesting stat prefixes available for use in WvW, it's fun to min/max with them, but every time I restat a legendary item to anything else I am reminded that running any less than 50% cele is a major disadvantage on pretty much every ele build besides glass scepter fresh air or meme builds/zerg builds like staff DPS. Cele has not helped with the whole "ele is op" slander either since almost every ele abuses the ever living crap out of full cele. It's boring to fight and boring to play. Nor is it any more fun on other classes. I don't want to spend 10 minutes 1v1ing on a cele build vs another cele build. Nor do I want the players who somehow (????) DO enjoy spending 10 mins 1v1ing to be going around stomping my non-cele off-meta builds and acting like they accomplished something. 🤷 Build wars 2 It never ends....player's complaining never ends indeed. They cried to remove celestial from PvP as it would make the game balanced at least...they then moved to durability runes..remove it and the game would be balanced..........then they moved to mercenary amulet...remove it and the game would be balanced...then the whining moved mender..remove it and the game would be balanced....then they moved to knight/cavaliers...remove them and the game would be balanced...they then moved to trapper runes etc etc....then quickness sigil....then trapper runes.........It never kittening ends...it never does....MMO players these days are the epitome of entitlement and toxicity....what after celestial? Crusader? Minstrel?Trailblazer?......Shall we just play naked with a rock? The reality is nobody asking anybody to 1v1 for 10m in the middle of nowher, WvW is server vs server gamemode; people who enjoy to 1v1 for hours should just go in the Sanctum and organize their own tournament with rules 2 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferus.3165 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 i especially love the roaming groups that consist of cele harbinger, cele renegade and cele cata with a sprinkle of support tempest added into the mix. Imo cele does not need to be removed but the buff it received has to be reverted. 2 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozumi.5816 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) All gear needs to be removed from WvW and replaced with SPvP amulets if Anet wants anyone to take this mode seriously. If they won't do that, than this mode should be completely abandoned and not developed for, as it's a waste of time to spend any resources on it. Edited February 25, 2023 by Kozumi.5816 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Removed, no. Stat total slashed by around 20%, yes. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 58 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said: Removed, no. Stat total slashed by around 60%, yes. Fixed. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Kozumi.5816 said: All gear needs to be removed from WvW and replaced with SPvP amulets if Anet wants anyone to take this mode seriously. If they won't do that, than this mode should be completely abandoned and not developed for, as it's a waste of time to spend any resources on it. Nerf paper, scissors is fine. -Rock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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