celestial gear (wvw)

[shrew.3059]

12 minutes ago, schloumou.3982 said:

I struggle to understand why you consider game balance from the skill floor point of view. The problems naturally become exponentially worse when you put cele in the hands of a decent player with an optimised build. They become virtually unkillable while maintaining relative good pressure. If you aren't bored to death from 20 min+ cele duels where nobody can win you are doing it wrong.

I’m considering skill floor as well as ceiling, but my approach here is more exploratory, I don’t pretend to have the answers.

Personally, I don’t use Celestial, but I doubt it would make or break me in most cases, because speed and tactical choices seem to matter more. It might change the way I play, but I doubt it would win fights for me that I would have otherwise lost. And in those cases, things were probably super close anyway, no?

If the claim is that “all other things being equal” Celestial is better, that could be an issue, but is it actually the case that Celestial turns a low skill player into someone competitive? Does it just close the gap? If so, by how much? Maybe stats shouldn’t matter at all and PvP should be purely skill-based.

[dead.7638]

Cele imo becomes a problem like I’m sure may have said when a class that has access to all boons for the length of any fight, being solo or group.   Ele, ranger, and guard are the main culprit in my experience.   I chose these three because of boons uptime and the ability to ignore dmg even when not using cele.  Lesser extent on other classes but still being abused all the same.   Cele eliminates any skill/knowledge you have of the game and will allow you to take massive amounts of dmg and ramp up your own dps with boons being applied compared to any other stat choice.   This creates a stagnate playing field with zero options ( if you want to win) in terms of class and build diversity.   That’s not healthy for the game or the communities within wvw.

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, schloumou.3982 said:

The problems naturally become exponentially worse when you put cele in the hands of a decent player with an optimised build.

How is that different when its an optimized with Zerker/Marauder/Trailblazer/Dire/Assassin/Solider/Viper or any other that fits well with that Elite or core that can do well with those stats. 10% do well but can still lose against pure stat builds. So if its a class/elite versus all which is it versus calling out the rune set.

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, dead.7638 said:

Cele imo becomes a problem like I’m sure may have said when a class that has access to all boons for the length of any fight, being solo or group.   Ele, ranger, and guard are the main culprit in my experience.   I chose these three because of boons uptime and the ability to ignore dmg even when not using cele.  Lesser extent on other classes but still being abused all the same.   Cele eliminates any skill/knowledge you have of the game and will allow you to take massive amounts of dmg and ramp up your own dps with boons being applied compared to any other stat choice.   This creates a stagnate playing field with zero options ( if you want to win) in terms of class and build diversity.   That’s not healthy for the game or the communities within wvw.

 

Have 4 rangers across core and elites, so you are saying all 4 are BiS with Cele? Please share.

[TheGrimm.5624]

lol, sorry to the confused peeps that have only 1 type of ranger or don't have alts and can see how there are better armor choices depending on your style of ranger. But then again, Rangers in WvW, WTW! Queue popcorn. ....Actually popcorn might be tasty.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

8 hours ago, dead.7638 said:

Cele imo becomes a problem like I’m sure may have said when a class that has access to all boons for the length of any fight, being solo or group.   Ele, ranger, and guard are the main culprit in my experience.   I chose these three because of boons uptime and the ability to ignore dmg even when not using cele.  Lesser extent on other classes but still being abused all the same.   Cele eliminates any skill/knowledge you have of the game and will allow you to take massive amounts of dmg and ramp up your own dps with boons being applied compared to any other stat choice.   This creates a stagnate playing field with zero options ( if you want to win) in terms of class and build diversity.   That’s not healthy for the game or the communities within wvw.

I think that Celestial Catalyst is much stronger than Celestial Core Elementalist, same goes for Celestial Soulbeast vs Core Celestial Ranger.
Nerf boons and conditions to the ground and Celestial is just decoration.

[Zyreva.1078]

57 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

Have 4 rangers across core and elites, so you are saying all 4 are BiS with Cele? Please share.

It's BIS for everything that doesn't need to get carried by superior numbers/wall hugging. In WvW you can always compensate for a bad build one way or another, doesn't mean the build is not subpar.

34 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

I think that Celestial Catalyst is much stronger than Celestial Core Elementalist, same goes for Celestial Soulbeast vs Core Celestial Ranger.

How is that even relevant? If you multiply all cele stats by 10 this still remains true, does this mean cele would be still balanced if it gave almost 20x as much stats as other gear?

Edited March 4, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[solemn.9670]

On 3/3/2023 at 12:51 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I can't agree or disagree, how is this a known thing? Is there a stat that Anet is sharing where we can check this or an API that a wesbite is using that is polling the builds the population is using? Mind you not registered users but total population.

I have 32 toons, 3 of those use Celi, the other 29 do not. So roughly 10% for myself, that doesn't seem over represented. 

Do you ......... Not play WvW? Not have friends who play WvW? Not interact with anyone in WvW whatsoever?

Why are you in this subforum then ?

Edit: nvm the fact that you have 32 characters says everything 😂

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by solemn.9670

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

Do you ......... Not play WvW? Not have friends who play WvW? Not interact with anyone in WvW whatsoever?

Why are you in this subforum then ?

Edit: nvm the fact that you have 32 characters says everything 😂

 

 

 

lol, yes why would I have any reason to try and create a buildout that beat a toon I had? Hmmm maybe to test it out and play with it to better understand its tactics and to get a better idea on how to counter it? Never roam nor havoc so wouldn't ever be able to try those builds out in various scale play either, got me there fur sure. And time in WvW, nope never been out there, not all, too true. Oh your right, this is the WvW forums so I guess I should have just gotten on the forums and proclaimed h4ck3rZ everywhere. 

And to the other point I guess you don't have an actual source with real numbers of builds and breakouts everyone is using. Groupthink is not an uncommon thing. So please don't speak for the rest of us.

[Hotride.2187]

On 3/4/2023 at 10:49 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

I think that Celestial Catalyst is much stronger than Celestial Core Elementalist, same goes for Celestial Soulbeast vs Core Celestial Ranger.
Nerf boons and conditions to the ground and Celestial is just decoration.

That can work too tbh, but there are builds that depend on short bursts of boons (to survive, to burst). You would axe those too. Its really the perma boons that ruin combat, not that boons exist in the game.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

20 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

That can work too tbh, but there are builds that depend on short bursts of boons (to survive, to burst). You would axe those too. Its really the perma boons that ruin combat, not that boons exist in the game.

Exactly this though! Boons should be short-lived boosts to give you some sort of advantage in situation, not something that should be upkeep into infinity. Problem is though that over the years boons and conditions got powercreeped and these that should be short but meaningful now last forever or can be reapplied far too often.

[Widebody.5071]

Here we go again the nurf mob is back at it looking for a way to give themselves a advantage.

I think Celestial gear isn't too bad. They're not overpowering or over the top, in fact their stats are are half if not less then half of other specialized stats. Every game I play I try to get that equilibrium in stats and attributes so I can have a well balanced class. Heck... I didn't know that was possible in GW2 until recently. Why go glass cannon or high heal with no damage then cry when you get hit or you hit like a wet noodle? Sounds like a operator malfunction to me.

This is what ruins the game, trying to screw over next person because your feelings been hurt cause you lost a fight. I don't understand how folks can play that way, that's just plain asinine.

Should we get rid of Legendary gear? It's too easy to change stats when you're in a pickle. How about Berserker gear that's just too much power to have especially coupled with condition damage.

So many disingenuous people.

 

 

 

 

[Aeolus.3615]

is celestial really worse than minstrell  mass stacking in wvw?

[Hotride.2187]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

is celestial really worse than minstrell  mass stacking in wvw?

For roaming yeah, for zerg fights no.