Now That Mantras Are Useless In WvW... What is Next to Go?

[Jitters.9401]

8 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

You can tell people many things. They don't have to listen. I can voice my opinion as I am doing right now.

You are fully welcome to continue playing whatever random builds you play and having a less than stellar experience because Anet cannot and will not cater to the minority .

How do you not see the arrogance?

 

If someone does not play how you say they should play then they are having a "less than stellar experience ".

 

Or like you said about when I said my best with my scrapper was me vs 6.  You implied that there were better builds.  

 

There is no better build than the builds I create for myself. Not sure why you want to keep touting yourself as the expert for everyone. You aren't. 

 

My original post was perfect as is.

I make unconventional builds and play them. They are what I find most fun. Not your cookie cutter builds that everyone and their dog uses. That is no fun to me.

 

Just because your limited viewpoint does not understand how a change like the 2.25second recharge cast time could totally destroy a build, That is a you issue. Perhaps you should expand your knowledge to beyond what you read other people do and do for yourself. 

 

And I do use arcane thievery. I love to steal the protection boon off of ele builds and burst them to nothing. 

[apharma.3741]

Here is someone using double mantra back when cast times were longer, and casting them mid fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL4WtL_VHIQ

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

 

[Levetty.1279]

7 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Yes and you have two charges of power cleanse + the recharge effect of mantra of resolve. My math is very slightly off because there is a 1 second cooldown between charges. 

Comparing a skill to one part of a chain skill is naive at best, intentionally dishonest at worst.

I'm comparing it to the skill I had access to before the nerf.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Levetty.1279

[Salt Mode.3780]

5 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

Here is someone using double mantra back when cast times were longer, and casting them mid fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL4WtL_VHIQ

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

 

Why the hell are you posting a video from 7 years ago...Mesmers now vs 7 years ago is a huge difference...please look at the time it was posted before linking...*face palm*

[apharma.3741]

1 minute ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Why the hell are you posting a video from 7 years ago...Mesmers now vs 7 years ago is a huge difference...please look at the time it was posted before linking...*face palm*

It was a video to show charging multiple mantras in combat in WvW is something you can do and to help people who perhaps are not used to it. Mantras haven't had charging for over 18 months so you won't find recent videos for it coupled with the restorative mantras nerf and other nerfs etc, basically most people I know stopped running double mantras years ago.

Though if you'd like I can always check Jazz's back catalogue and link you a video from 2 years ago if it makes you feel any better, just wouldn't be double mantras.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

8 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

How do you not see the arrogance?

If someone does not play how you say they should play then they are having a "less than stellar experience ".

Dude. You literally made a post complaining about your experience. If you are having a great time why does this thread even exist? 

And I don't know what you expect to change about that at this point.

Please let me know how Anet can balance skills based upon Jitters not using his entire kit. You don't use escape abilities on scrapper? Well many do, so those skills are going to be balanced for that potential. 

Mantra skills can be recharged. They are going to only have two charges to compensate. And Anet will expect you to learn how to charge them. Or deal with only having 1. 

8 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

There is no better build than the builds I create for myself. Not sure why you want to keep touting yourself as the expert for everyone. You aren't. 

I agree with the first sentence. As for the rest, I gave my opinion. You gave yours.

And your opinion was that the skill is useless in wvw. For me that is demonstrably false both in zerging and in roaming.

8 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

My original post was perfect as is.

I make unconventional builds and play them. They are what I find most fun. Not your cookie cutter builds that everyone and their dog uses. That is no fun to me.

Just because your limited viewpoint does not understand how a change like the 2.25second recharge cast time could totally destroy a build, That is a you issue. Perhaps you should expand your knowledge to beyond what you read other people do and do for yourself. 

I understand it has impacted your experience. What you don't understand is that it has improved other's experience as well. People who can find the time to recharge these skills greatly benefit from the reduced cooldown. And anet is going to balance the game around the majority.

Also there is nothing wrong with a new player using a site like snowcrows.com metabattle.com etc to learn what a proper build looks like. The only problem is when they just accept them as gospel. People should be constantly exploring the class.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid being rude to other players.

Regards.

[katte nici.9483]

The game is a bit faster and most professions have much stronger and more mobile roaming builds than 7 years ago. I'm not even opposed to the mantra change back in principle but you can't really compare back than and now. Considering the long cast time the mantra charge bonus is simply not good enough today.

[Waffles.5632]

2 hours ago, katte nici.9483 said:

The game is a bit faster and most professions have much stronger and more mobile roaming builds than 7 years ago. I'm not even opposed to the mantra change back in principle but you can't really compare back than and now. Considering the long cast time the mantra charge bonus is simply not good enough today.

I too agree that linking a 7yr old vid to defend mantras is a bit dishonest. The game is way faster now 100%. Tons more visual noise too, and in pvp specifically, floors can now be littered with lingering AOE's. 2secs is way more valuable now, and personally, I just don't like having to cast a 2sec channel during a team fight or 1vX skirmish.

 

Not only do I just feel bad, but it ruins the flow of Mesmer for me as well. I'm all for compromises too, like a 1sec channel, or whatever would be okay for me. Just not 2 secs, that's simply way too long IMO.

[Carnifex.3275]

On 2/22/2023 at 7:46 AM, Jitters.9401 said:

I was regularly running 2 mantras before the change. Now I am forced to run zero.

 

For example.... I am roaming. Got in a 1v1 with a necro. I couldn't finish even 1 charge casting.  Each time I tried I was interrupted and it is not like a person can keep trying to recast over and over till it works. You still need to dodge, use defensive skills, etc. 

 

And what about fighting multiple enemies? Yeah..... good luck on ever charging a Mantra.

Mantras have been totally "kittened". Thank you anet for giving mesmers less skill choices in WvW (sarcasm).

 

So what will be next to go? Tell me ahead of time so I know what not to use in the future.  

Next to go? Probably distortion. Anet seems to like to take away something then bring it back. I feel like the next step will be taking it away again. They keep shuffling instead of actually changing something for the better.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Carnifex.3275

[Varis.5467]

29 minutes ago, Carnifex.3275 said:

Next to go? Probably distortion. Anet seems to like to take away something then bring it back. I feel like the next step will be taking it away again. They keep shuffling instead of actually changing something for the better.

Nah man we just went through a cycle of distortion season on the chrono and virt. 

 

I bet they will be taking the clone mechanic next, it even checks out with their philosophy to obliterate the class!

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Got a poll about this topic in the Profession threads for those who haven't seen it.

 

 

[Carnifex.3275]

21 hours ago, Varis.5467 said:

Nah man we just went through a cycle of distortion season on the chrono and virt. 

 

I bet they will be taking the clone mechanic next, it even checks out with their philosophy to obliterate the class!

Nah i dont think so. Virtuoso was already a good stab at a cloneless mesmer. 

Distortion on the other hand... people still cry about it. And knowing anet.. yeah it's probably the best candidate for gettin nerfed or even removed again.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Carnifex.3275

[Godravage.4692]

Honestly, It seems like mantras are worthless period. I have never been so hurt in the game doing open world as I am since they nerfed mantras. Guess I have to find a new heal skill. Any suggestions?

[Godravage.4692]

Where is the confusion? Is there a better heal I can use or not? 

[apharma.3741]

10 hours ago, Godravage.4692 said:

Where is the confusion? Is there a better heal I can use or not? 

My dude, chill, you posted this within half an hour of your first post, we're not tech support, we're not here to answer your queries 24/7.
In PvE mantra heal is probably the absolute best in terms of raw healing, check out the guides in your other post complaining about mesmer.
PvP it's ether feast or signet as they're easier to use but you can still get tons of value from mantra, just harder to use if you've just got back to the game.

[Godravage.4692]

Actually it's a forum. This is literally where questions are asked and answered. Now, with that being said, I think it was some bizarre glitch I was having. I honestly have no idea what happened yesterday bc today everything seems fine. The heals were not working at all and even worst then that my character was going down with maybe three shots. That never use to happen so yes...that is why I panicked bc that is kinda game ruining. I do not think it was an overreaction. Yes, I took to the forums to ask if there was something up and if there was a better heal skill or not to use. I still do not understand why you were so confused by that post but it's cool. Moving on.

[apharma.3741]

19 hours ago, Godravage.4692 said:

Actually it's a forum. This is literally where questions are asked and answered. Now, with that being said, I think it was some bizarre glitch I was having. I honestly have no idea what happened yesterday bc today everything seems fine. The heals were not working at all and even worst then that my character was going down with maybe three shots. That never use to happen so yes...that is why I panicked bc that is kinda game ruining. I do not think it was an overreaction. Yes, I took to the forums to ask if there was something up and if there was a better heal skill or not to use. I still do not understand why you were so confused by that post but it's cool. Moving on.

I wasn't confused, as you say it's a forum, there's lots of people and there's some trolls/passive aggressive people who like to put confused faces instead of being helpful. I saw your post when I opened my browser on my phone and wasn't going to log in to reply so thought I'd wait till the morning as I'm EU and from the times you seem to reply you're west coast US or possibly Oceanic.
I don't know how long you have been taking a break, 2 years comes to mind for some reason, in that time Hardstuck.gg is a good source of PvE knowledge and builds, especially instanced content and it has some low intensity (LI) builds that are great for easing back into stuff. GuildJen has some pretty decent carry builds for competitive too that can really help till you get used to the game again.
For open world stuff like Dragon's End (seriously play this if you haven't already) commanders make squads of 1 alacrity, 1 quickness and 3 dps similar to this chart but expanded to 50 instead of just 10. It also explains how lfg should work, this might not be much of a thing in NA if you play there as I hear NA is dead for lfg in some cases. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/wj9s9y/updated_for_august_2022_10_player_pve_squad

 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Mes had no problem charging mantras before they dumbed it down. Im sure you guys can figure it out again.

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 3/12/2023 at 3:26 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Mes had no problem charging mantras before they dumbed it down. Im sure you guys can figure it out again.

nobody played mantras, at least in pvp.
the only mantra used was pain to get might to 1shot people, you would charge it in stealth, ironically it added counterplay as you could hear the sound of the mantra charging 😄

[viquing.8254]

I disagree, MoD was used in most power builds, even on few condi builds.

[chripsy.1027]

The mechanic is interesting.... But the cast time feels horribly clunky and slow. I feel reducing the cast time to 1 second would vastly improve the mantras....

 

Another thing. Power Spike seems a little silly. In PvP or WvW the enemy playing is almost always casting something and using a skill.... The chances or actually applying that vulnerability is minute.... Unless I am missing something? I don't play with mantra too often..

[Leonidrex.5649]

52 minutes ago, viquing.8254 said:

I disagree, MoD was used in most power builds, even on few condi builds.

It was used in CI mesmer, but they deleted it so its a moot point, all MoD builds are and were memes

[viquing.8254]

Even without CI.

Misha used it in his mAt condi build.

Jazz used it in her multiples burst / cc build.

I used it in PvP power and condi builds to plat3.

IMO it wasn't memes at all. I even link old vids on the thread about the patch.

[Jitters.9401]

On 2/24/2023 at 7:39 AM, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

And your opinion was that the skill is useless in wvw. For me that is demonstrably false both in zerging and in roaming.

Didn't I ask you to give examples of positioning in a different post? 

 

Demonstrate it. You made the statement, so prove it.

I ran two mantras at all times. You make 2 videos of you roaming With 2 mantras and fighting multiple enemies.  Prove me wrong. One video has to be open field, the other one can be your set up video.

 

The other day I got in a fight with 2 catalysts taking my camp (all guards were killed when i jumped on them).

I downed one, was slowly taking him out with auto attacks while working on the other one and would have won the other but I made the mistake of dodge rolling outside the circle.... the camp flipped to them and suddenly I was immobilized, blinded, and smacked by a Supervisor with RI. I went down right after. 

 

My fights are almost ways like that. Super fast paced where it is impossible to charge anything. 

 

But... if my wvw roaming was just camps and vet creature then the mantras would be fine.