If something is particularly un-fun to play against due to bad design, remember

[Ovark.2514]

If someone tells you you're "whining" or "crying" (or any derivative of that) for bringing up said bad design, they only say that because they are trying to convince themselves that they don't have to listen to you. Someone who is "whining" or "crying" should clearly not have their concerns taken seriously as they are babies. Bad design is bad design, even if you're befitting from it (winning). Don't let it get to you my fellow players. Continue to call out bad design for what it is. Maybe in 10 years it will be fixed. . .

[ArthurDent.9538]

Bad design is extremely subjective. I would consider skills having appropriate telegraphs that don't clutter the screen excessively a part of good design yet warrior and vindicator which both do a great job in this regard are frequently bitched about for "bad design". Conversely I think front loaded instant cast ranged spike damage is inherently unhealthy (bonus points for no facing requirement) yet cmc thinks scepter ele can be a healthy part of the meta.

Edited February 23, 2023 by ArthurDent.9538

[Kstyle.5829]

The whole of PVP is bad design right now.  Well.. I suppose that's subjective.   Many years ago PVP was at a pace that required awareness and strategy.  Now it's reactive and more button mashy like a fighting game.  The existence of healers and bunkers is completely gone save tempests, and you rarely even see duelists.  Power builds are just so much stronger than anything else. 

 

Since ANET hasn't said anything about this, maybe that's the kind of PVP they want.  For me it's just not enjoyable anymore. It doesn't feel rewarding or that it takes skill to just press 2 buttons and annihilate someone, and when you die it feels cheesy.  So I don't even bother with it anymore. And when I did people told me I was crying all the time.

 

One thing is for certain, at least 99 to 99.9% of the games population has already quit looking at the numbers left of PVP participants.  So I would guess a lot of the people who are crying are those of us who want to actually fix the game for its own sake, whereas many people are just like "this game sucks" and just uninstall it.  

[Khalisto.5780]

I think we talking about thieves

 

Theres no way blindness and stealth spam is good design lol

[Dr Meta.3158]

5 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

The whole of PVP is bad design right now.  Well.. I suppose that's subjective.   Many years ago PVP was at a pace that required awareness and strategy.  Now it's reactive and more button mashy like a fighting game.  The existence of healers and bunkers is completely gone save tempests, and you rarely even see duelists.  Power builds are just so much stronger than anything else. 

 

Since ANET hasn't said anything about this, maybe that's the kind of PVP they want.  For me it's just not enjoyable anymore. It doesn't feel rewarding or that it takes skill to just press 2 buttons and annihilate someone, and when you die it feels cheesy.  So I don't even bother with it anymore. And when I did people told me I was crying all the time.

 

One thing is for certain, at least 99 to 99.9% of the games population has already quit looking at the numbers left of PVP participants.  So I would guess a lot of the people who are crying are those of us who want to actually fix the game for its own sake, whereas many people are just like "this game sucks" and just uninstall it.  

Pvp before the feb 2020 patch was pretty instant and reactive. My go to was staff 5 fear into axe 2 for 30k damage or focus 5 for 20-25k damage using the old sigil that gave quickness and swiftness from weapon swapping off of the old dread for 33% more damage during fear. There was just spectral walk and wurm for avoiding attacks since shroud was deleted upon any hit. Realistically shroud was for killing downed players since it couldn't take a hit from anyone.

But that was everyone's playstyle especially then was just double herald, daredevil, scourge, firebrand with scourge and firebrand being the only ones that could survive some hits and only if they were together. That meta was awful. Its far better now than it was back then. Barring some exceptions like stealth burst scrapper, stealth burst holosmith, fresh air weaver, and some niche glass cannon daredevil builds, fights are pretty back and forth now.

[Ovark.2514]

17 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Bad design is extremely subjective. I would consider skills having appropriate telegraphs that don't clutter the screen excessively a part of good design yet warrior and vindicator which both do a great job in this regard are frequently bitched about for "bad design". Conversely I think front loaded instant cast ranged spike damage is inherently unhealthy (bonus points for no facing requirement) yet cmc thinks scepter ele can be a healthy part of the meta.

It's not that subjective.

[apharma.3741]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:59 AM, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Bad design is extremely subjective. I would consider skills having appropriate telegraphs that don't clutter the screen excessively a part of good design yet warrior and vindicator which both do a great job in this regard are frequently bitched about for "bad design". Conversely I think front loaded instant cast ranged spike damage is inherently unhealthy (bonus points for no facing requirement) yet cmc thinks scepter ele can be a healthy part of the meta.

To a point, it all comes down to what is fair and if everyone is "playing by the same rules".
Some examples:

We have 3 elite specs based around their dodge, one has 3 dodges, a plethora of traits to give flat endurance regen and perma vigor. The 2nd spec was designed around 1 dodge, then got 2 but had the same as above and now has had endurance regen nerfed into the floor. The 3rd spec still only has 1 dodge, not very good vigor uptime but in 1 specific combination enough invuln and mirrors to be harder to kill.
When we had trade offs some classes had negative health, shorter range class mechanic, one dodge etc applied to them while others just gave up F5 or even didn't give up anything at all. Most of these are reverted but we still have at least one.
CC in this game is also a mess of cast times, duration and cool downs where there's just no rules to whether something should be short for interrupting or set up for a kill.

There's a lot of things that can be numbers changed out, instant damage can be reduced to being not a huge problem. It's still not good and you end up with a useless skill/trait most of the time but those are less obnoxious. Remember the numbers changed 300s traits and how they were all (except mesmer) changed to be tied to a skill eventually. The real problems are mechanics that just can't be balanced and often warp balance of the class around an elite spec. The prime example being continuum split which is incredibly powerful and without it or when it's on CD the class is not great. By virtue of double casting continuum split has resulted in probably the most nerfs due to a singular class specific mechanic in the entire game.