Here is a very fun Vindi build for PvE

[Waffles.5632]

14 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

The standard is to not have real choice at all. FF14 and wow allow you to chose between assassin and berserker for example. You can not even use tank gear on dps there.

First off, ty for dialing it back. I appreciate it for real. As for how FF14 does it, personally Idk if I'd like that either as it limits possible build choices IMO.

I do see your point though, and I also understand if every stat was available to choose from, eventually everyone would just settle on the "best set" of stats and pick those. Like I don't actually want Healing Power from Cele, but Cele is still the only set that gives me all the stats that I wanted for this build, so that's why I settled on half Cele.

 

14 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

They exist. its just that they are inside controlled instances and not open world.

Again I agree, but you can see now how most players just won't be interested in that content because of the attitude they're met with. From their perspective, the build they've been using up until Raids has worked, but they're instantly told "nah it sucks, use this build now" and it's like, you can't put that on people. There has to be some leeway or grace period where they can use the build they're most comfortable with, and then they can switch to meta.

Because first off, meta does not mean this is the only way to clear X content, meta just means this is the most optimal way to clear X content. So all I'm saying is allow people to build up towards meta, instead of immediately demanding they switch to meta.

 

14 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

I like to do that too sometimes with 3-5 player teams since those can clear way faster than your usual zerg.

This is just my preference, so nothing wrong with either of us here IMO, but I prefer the "zerg" because for me it feels more epic seeing a lot of players on the screen. Not like 50+ mind you, but I usually get around ~20 people I'd say when I tag up in open world, but again, nothing wrong with small scale squads either. I can see your point here too.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Holy crap I'm gone for a year and apparently in the meantime this forum has descended into ripping players to shreds for posting builds that aren't rated five out of five caws on snow-crows (or whatever the goto site is now). 

[ventress.4879]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:26 PM, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

Holy crap I'm gone for a year and apparently in the meantime this forum has descended into ripping players to shreds for posting builds that aren't rated five out of five caws on snow-crows (or whatever the goto site is now). 

Yeah, it seems that way. It's pretty much the wild west, the moderators can't keep up.

[Buran.3796]

On 3/3/2023 at 7:54 AM, ventress.4879 said:

Yeah, it seems that way. It's pretty much the wild west, the moderators can't keep up.

  Nah, most of responses were positive and wellcoming to the build. And outside the forums and Reddit (which vast majority of players never frequent) players doesn't even known about Snow Crows/Sincretize etc (or if known, don't care).

Edited March 4 by Buran.3796

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

^^That's what has most of us so frustrated.  The difference between the low-end performers and the high-end performers is an order of magnitude, whereas good builds should reach 1/3rd to half of their potential just by auto attacking.  

[Nephalem.8921]

On 3/5/2023 at 4:44 AM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

^^That's what has most of us so frustrated.  The difference between the low-end performers and the high-end performers is an order of magnitude, whereas good builds should reach 1/3rd to half of their potential just by auto attacking.  

And then the hp sponge complains start. Read it multiple times in the new story chapter feedback again.

Cele is just very stat inefficient if only a few stats are used. And power builds like vindi make no use of condi or healing power. Boon duration is also mostly wasted since you will cap fury and might without any extra bd so it only helps to increase quick uptime.

100% quick uptime is worth 25% dps max, closer to 20% usually. Is it worth to give up 20% dmg in stats for 5-10% more from higher quick uptime? usually not.

Use dragon or marauder on power for survivability, not cele.

Edited March 6 by Nephalem.8921

[Buran.3796]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:37 PM, Nephalem.8921 said:

Use dragon or marauder on power for survivability, not cele.

   I would agree with that for the power variant, specially since marauder has larger crit chance than berserker and makes easier to reach the 100% cap. Diviner feels like leaving food in the table, tried it for weeks and never convinced me.

   But celestial totally works with Vindi, since currently condi Vindicator is the strongest PvE bunker in the game. "But this game doesn't have tanks!" Well, is hard to argue when you curbstomp content without dying. Happens that most of people finds not dying funnier than dying. 

 

[ventress.4879]

On 3/6/2023 at 1:37 AM, Nephalem.8921 said:

And then the hp sponge complains start. Read it multiple times in the new story chapter feedback again.

Cele is just very stat inefficient if only a few stats are used. And power builds like vindi make no use of condi or healing power. Boon duration is also mostly wasted since you will cap fury and might without any extra bd so it only helps to increase quick uptime.

100% quick uptime is worth 25% dps max, closer to 20% usually. Is it worth to give up 20% dmg in stats for 5-10% more from higher quick uptime? usually not.

Use dragon or marauder on power for survivability, not cele.

If you go full Dragon with one or two pieces of Marauder you can go Rune of the Wurm for some nice synergy

[Buran.3796]

On 3/9/2023 at 1:33 PM, ventress.4879 said:

If you go full Dragon with one or two pieces of Marauder you can go Rune of the Wurm for some nice synergy

   I'll argue that if your gear set is full Dragon, Full Marauder or any mix between them Eagle runes are better than Wurm ones since both will provide you exactly the same critical damage progression, but Eagle will give you an extra 8.33% crit chance whereas the Wurm will givve you ~1.5k extra HP. My choice over both for power damage in Vindi would still be Fireworks because the qol of fast pace + extra boon duration.

[ventress.4879]

3 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I'll argue that if your gear set is full Dragon, Full Marauder or any mix between them Eagle runes are better than Wurm ones since both will provide you exactly the same critical damage progression, but Eagle will give you an extra 8.33% crit chance whereas the Wurm will givve you ~1.5k extra HP. My choice over both for power damage in Vindi would still be Fireworks because the qol of fast pace + extra boon duration.

You don't really need critical chance on Revenant due it's core traits. Berserkers gives you 100% without any rune set hence why Scholor Runes are so strong.

Vassal of the Emperor is way stronger at keeping boons at 100%, especially when paired with the EoD overcharges. The only good self boon is Vigor, Quickness the rest normally have to come from someone else.

Its really all just preferences so both our builds are pretty spot on. 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 2/26/2023 at 4:09 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

There is actually truth to that ... Meta builds only actually shine with players who are most capable to play them in the correct content. The idea of meta is completely irrelevant to many people because they aren't capable enough to benefit from it or in the worst case, perform so badly with it, they would be BETTER off playing an off-meta build they are comfortable with.  

 

Let me just disagree with what kind of players actually use meta builds cause it is not a matter of personal skill...but preference in way to play.

Every player should be capable of play any meta with a bit of training or usage of that build (this game is very easy to learn anyway, and most if not all meta builds carry alot in gw2 since they are builded for that over some x obgective),   players just might not like to play certain classes in a certain way  that others think it's mandatory or the only way to play.

And btw alot of raid players told me that any class/build with 20k DPS at minimal is more then enough to clear content in raids, and the diference between meta comp is like 5 to 10 minutes on that raid.

Personally i  give more credit to player that play out of the meta and fullfill the objectives than players that search to meta carry.

 

 

Edited March 11 by Aeolus.3615

[Obtena.7952]

21 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Let me just disagree with what kind of players actually use meta builds cause it is not a matter of personal skill...but preference in way to play.

Every player should be capable of play any meta with a bit of training or usage of that build (this game is very easy to learn anyway, and most if not all meta builds carry alot in gw2 since they are builded for that over some x obgective),   players just might not like to play certain classes in a certain way  that others think it's mandatory or the only way to play.

And btw alot of raid players told me that any class/build with 20k DPS at minimal is more then enough to clear content in raids, and the diference between meta comp is like 5 to 10 minutes on that raid.

Personally i  give more credit to player that play out of the meta and fullfill the objectives than players that search to meta carry.

 

 

You have nothing to disagree with and are just seeking an argument with me; I'm not commenting on or made any claim about what kind of players are actually using meta builds. I don't even care and I don't even need to speculate such a thing for the point I was making that you completely missed. 

The performance a player gets from a meta build (or ANY build for that matter) has nothing to do with the build itself or where it's used. The performance a player gets from ANY build is simply about the player mastering the use of the build. Whether that build is used in the appropriate place is a completely different matter of effectiveness. 

Edited March 12 by Obtena.7952

[Nephalem.8921]

18 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The performance a player gets from a meta build (or ANY build for that matter) has nothing to do with the build itself or where it's used. The performance a player gets from ANY build is simply about the player mastering the use of the build. Whether that build is used in the appropriate place is a completely different matter of effectiveness. 

This is so wrong...

Can you win a race in your street car? Usually not. Performance is very build dependant. Or we have very different understandings of what performance means.

[Obtena.7952]

8 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

This is so wrong...

Can you win a race in your street car? Usually not. Performance is very build dependant. Or we have very different understandings of what performance means.

No it's not wrong. Player capability limits the performance of any build. Put grandma behind a F1 racing car ... and watch her be last, beaten by the world class F1 racer ... in a street car. 

The build is NOT enough to guarantee top performance. The player also needs to be capable to use it. I would actually put forward the argument that the build is the least dependent factor in performance in GW2. Put the same noob in a scrub build or a meta build ... watch them struggle to get 5K while eating dirt. Put a trying hard the same builds, watch them cap the performance of each and far exceed the 5K the noob got. 

Edited March 13 by Obtena.7952

[Ashen.2907]

On 3/12/2023 at 7:18 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

The performance a player gets from a meta build (or ANY build for that matter) has nothing to do with the build itself or where it's used. The performance a player gets from ANY build is simply about the player mastering the use of the build

The build itself will affect the ability of a player to master it. Some builds are very easy to master while others are exceptionally difficult. 

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

The build itself will affect the ability of a player to master it. Some builds are very easy to master while others are exceptionally difficult. 

Sure ... agreed. I mean, that supports my point. A player that masters a build caps their performance, no matter the complexity it takes to master it, regardless of what that build is or where they use it. 

 

Edited March 13 by Obtena.7952