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Stalwart Strength


Eugchriss.2046

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0,25s ICD is ridiculous. Make it 10s icd. It would still be a 33% stab up time. It's good enough when most classes have at best 1s for 20s+ cd.

Or Better make it proc 2s stab for 8s icd. The stab will still be frequent enough and will last enough to land a follow up.

Edited by Eugchriss.2046
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1 hour ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

0,25s ICD is ridiculous. Make it 10s icd. It would still be a 33% stab up time. It's good enough when most classes have at best 1s for 20s+ cd.

Or Better make it proc 2s stab for 8s icd. The stab will still be frequent enough and will last enough to land a follow up.

Doing either of those things will destroy the trait. I'd 100% pick one of the other GMs over that. That's like a worse version of brave stride, which is absolutely garbage (in competitive modes, anyway; it's great in PvE).

 

It's also not a fair comparison to other professions that can generate stab on their own; SS requires the warrior to CC the target to get any stab at all. In other words, I need to outplay someone to get the benefit. If they outplay me and dodge/block/have stab of their own, I get nothing. And since stab is consumed by CC, the damage mod portion of the trait is highly unreliable (and it's not even that big of a mod given the circumstances).

 

Further, SS is mostly troublesome only when used on Spellbreaker because FC is a low CD AOE CC (which is unblockable baseline and can be trained to be unblindable too). That means it's very probable to CC at least something and thus generate stab every 8.75s (not counting any of the other CC the SpB might be bringing).  You don't see core, zerker, or bladesworn tearing it up with SS.

 

If ANet were to change the trait, however, they should just replace stab with protection. This has two benefits:

1) warrior's can no longer generate so much stab, making them easier to counter

2) generating protection still improves sustain, and because it stacks duration and isn't consumed, the warrior gets more consistent benefit from the damage mod.

 

As they demonstrated with Dragonscale defense, they are capable of splitting the boons provided by a trait based on the game mode. So they could make SS give Prot in PvP/WvW but leave it as stab in PvE.

Edited by CalmTheStorm.2364
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The trait doesnt do anything useful when not hammer and hammer is a really clunky weapon. I'm more bothered by the sustain+dmg bonus from defense than I am from the stab.

The war will CC chain you, stunbreak before fierce blow can land and get out of the way, wait a few sec for the stab to end and punish. Or just kite and let all the hammer skills not land because reasons.

Cleansing Ire with GS is the stronger option anyway.

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8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You can take the stab away once LB and Rifle do competitive damage with the rest of the weapons. Until then let the melee heavy class have the tools to get into and stay in melee. Also, if they have that trait you know to condi them to death, so layer your condis on them and kite them to death.

Warrior rifle not doing damage is... last time I got oneshot by an unblockable gunflame it didn't felt that lacking tbh.

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40 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Warrior rifle not doing damage is... last time I got oneshot by an unblockable gunflame it didn't felt that lacking tbh.

Gunflame has a coefficient of 1.54. Things like Rapid Fire have a coefficient of 2.75. True Shot is 1.91. Sevenshot is even at 1.855. As far as memes go it isn't even the strongest one.

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11 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

0,25s ICD is ridiculous. Make it 10s icd. It would still be a 33% stab up time. It's good enough when most classes have at best 1s for 20s+ cd.

Or Better make it proc 2s stab for 8s icd. The stab will still be frequent enough and will last enough to land a follow up.

100% agree and whats worse is that the 2 most overperforming specs of the last meta both had insane stab uptime

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2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Gunflame has a coefficient of 1.54. Things like Rapid Fire have a coefficient of 2.75. True Shot is 1.91. Sevenshot is even at 1.855. As far as memes go it isn't even the strongest one.

Yet I'm not getting oneshot by the latter two. It's almost like the coefficient is not the only thing that determines damage.

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40 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You might not, but those are all skills that people complain about getting 1-shot by.

Anyway, we nicely derailed the thread, my point is that warrior rifle does damage already, no need to buff it. Not as a tradeoff for some other nerf, not anything else.
The point of the 2020 patch was to prevent oneshots. If we buff damage back any further, we are right back at that meta where you can insta delete someone. So no matter what nerfs you(you as in anyone on this forum) advocate for, offsetting it with a damage buff is just... no.
There are plenty of unviable support specs, it's funny how nobody cares about those.

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8 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Anyway, we nicely derailed the thread, my point is that warrior rifle does damage already, no need to buff it. Not as a tradeoff for some other nerf, not anything else.
The point of the 2020 patch was to prevent oneshots. If we buff damage back any further, we are right back at that meta where you can insta delete someone. So no matter what nerfs you(you as in anyone on this forum) advocate for, offsetting it with a damage buff is just... no.
There are plenty of unviable support specs, it's funny how nobody cares about those.

Yeah we derailed a bit. We can agree to disagree though. Large swaths of warrior rifle are trash tier relative to other ranged weapons, one hard hitting skills doesn't balance the rest of it. Feb2020 failed to prevent oneshots, it just culled half of them and left the other half laying around, but that is history at this point. I think CMC and Roy realize this, which is why you are seeing traits like SS appear. As for the unviable support specs, I certainly care at least. I've been pushing for a workable warrior support build for years now. So far I've been left in a multiyear facepalm with what Anet has been doing to warrior's support kit.

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I really want to see more traits like vindi where the trait itself affects different elite specs separately. It would be cool if this trait had separate numbers depending on what elite the warrior is running.

Maybe that's too much work, but they already set precedent with Vindi so I wish they would keep doing it.

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40 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

The point of the 2020 patch was to prevent oneshots.

The point of feb 2020 patch was to increase the TTK not to prevent oneshots. You sure can think it's the same but there is a slight difference. Having a hard hitting skill to break the stalemate in a fight is something healthy, being able to chain hard hitting skills isn't. The devs needed to find a balance of damage that allowed that and it was right at this moment that some uninspired people were arguing for an overall reduction of damage (Peoples that regretted asking for that afterward).

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13 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

The trait doesnt do anything useful when not hammer and hammer is a really clunky weapon. I'm more bothered by the sustain+dmg bonus from defense than I am from the stab.

This trait itself is a form of sustain. It only proc when you CC someone, and someone who is CCed can t deal you damage. Being able to not be disabled give you the advantage to land you burst and so force the opponent to go in to a defensive mode. So yeah it is a form of support and the meta where everyone play zerker I ll argue that CC + stab combine brings more support value than a healing skill.

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16 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

It's also not a fair comparison to other professions that can generate stab on their own; SS requires the warrior to CC the target to get any stab at all. In other words, I need to outplay someone to get the benefit. If they outplay me and dodge/block/have stab of their own, I get nothing. And since stab is consumed by CC, the damage mod portion of the trait is highly unreliable (and it's not even that big of a mod given the circumstances).

This is coping dude. 

  1. Warrior can also generate tab on their own. They just have to do what other classes do: sacrifice an utility slot just for the stab. And to be fair, most classes  have seen their stab trait proc removed because it was a cheap access to one of the most essential boon. That s one of the reason cata and war are meta. 
  2. Stab being consumed by cC is irrelevant because you need to cast a CC to remove that stab but you can t because you are being CC yourself. That s a moo point.
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2 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

how are you suppos to dodge 5 potential CC when you have 2 dodges?

you only need to dodge one and he loses stab then you can counter pressure with your own CC and he loses more stab by unable to cast CC

or a single aegis is able to cancel stab

 

your question is like how do you live fighting the enemy when you only have 2 dodges and there's a trillion damage skills.

Edited by felix.2386
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14 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

This is coping dude. 

  1. Warrior can also generate tab on their own. They just have to do what other classes do: sacrifice an utility slot just for the stab. And to be fair, most classes  have seen their stab trait proc removed because it was a cheap access to one of the most essential boon. That s one of the reason cata and war are meta. 
  2. Stab being consumed by cC is irrelevant because you need to cast a CC to remove that stab but you can t because you are being CC yourself.
    Quote

     

     

T r y    I t.

Especially try it on a non-Spellbreaker build. You'll see.

 

While you're at it, try out brave stride, which resembles in principle what you're asking SS to become.

 

Also, needing to CC someone to get stab us objectively not the same as getting stab every time you get an aura (something that is entirely under your control) or some similar mechanic.

 

Quote

That s a moo point

This made me smile 🐄🐄

Edited by CalmTheStorm.2364
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5 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

T r y    I t.

Especially try it on a non-Spellbreaker build. You'll see.

T R Y  I T. We dare you.

5 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

While you're at it, try out brave stride, which resembles in principle what you're asking SS to become.

Case in point ^ I'm the one that suggested that change to Brave Stride to begin with and the CD on it keeps it from doing what is intended.

5 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Also, needing to CC someone to get stab us objectively not the same as getting stab every time you get an aura (something that is entirely under your control) or some similar mechanic.

Every one complaining about SS needs to read this part carefully.

 

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