How is Mantra of Distraction still a thing?

[Crab Fear.8623]

Disrupting players, increasing cooldowns, punishing spam is what Mesmers were originally DESIGNED for.

This is a non-issue.

I hate that they tried to shove Mesmer into a thief-ish role then wallybagged (i think i made this word up, but it's a synonym of the f word) them. 

But, if they continue to develop Mesmer to be more like GW1, I'm all for it.

[Mell.4873]

Unless you play some super squishy the Manta of Distraction is a pretty useless skills. Most of the time I just let a Mesmer burn through their cooldowns then one shot them. 

The only exception was probably Mirage since it has a good burst rotation and mobility but currently that is Mesmer weakest elite in PvP. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I can't prevent you from full-countering\stomp\something the illusions, tbh, since warrior currently ignores blind too. Full counter with any clone in your general proximity, you are free to do anything you please.

 

Spellbreaker is a hard matchup for Mesmer because core and zerker (and possibly bladesworn) are cakewalks for Mesmer. As it should be.  I play zerker primarily, so whatever frustration you feel at your clones being counterfodder is shared by me getting dazelocked in zerk mode due to a Mes looking at me.

Hardly anyone plays interrupt mes, and hardly anyone plays zerker. Getting shut down by a metabuild is something I've been tolerating for a bit. You're getting a bit of what the MU was like for warriors now. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Waffles.5632]

5 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Spellbreaker is a hard matchup for Mesmer because core and zerker (and possibly bladesworn) are cakewalks for Mesmer. As it should be.  I play zerker primarily, so whatever frustration you feel at your clones being counterfodder is shared by me getting dazelocked in zerk mode due to a Mes looking at me.

Hardly anyone plays interrupt mes, and hardly anyone plays zerker. Getting shut down by a metabuild is something I've been tolerating for a bit. You're getting a bit of what the MU was like for warriors now. 

Can speak from personal experience here. I have completely shutdown zerkers before w/ Power Mirage. I imagine I could do the same against core warrior as well.

Bladesworn is a bit tricky because their dragonslash has some weird timing to it, but once you get that down, it's mostly the same as facing zerker I feel. Easy shut down if you can land your interrupts and play it right.

Spellbreaker is always the hardest because of FC and Magebane Tether.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Can speak from personal experience here. I have completely shutdown zerkers before w/ Power Mirage. I imagine I could do the same against core warrior as well.

Bladesworn is a bit tricky because their dragonslash has some weird timing to it, but once you get that down, it's mostly the same as facing zerker I feel. Easy shut down if you can land your interrupts and play it right.

Spellbreaker is always the hardest because of FC and Magebane Tether.

 

I am completely fine with "this class counters 75/50% of this class' derivatives, and is countered by 25/50% (more information on bladesworn needed)" and wish most classes adhered to that kind of balance. That way most people can kind of figure out what to throw at you by looking at you, but you can build in such a way that you can specifically guard against that. That would be a very effective way to balance if it was across the board. 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Waffles.5632]

@Azure The Heartless.3261

Me too bro. We have similar mindsets when it comes to balance, always cool when that happens.

I feel zerker is pretty cleanly balanced even too, but feels so weak because so many other specs are out of control. It's what I used to play before Mirage, but I got tired of how the meta specs kept pulling more and more ahead, completely leaving zerker in the dust until recently.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I think it's fine for some matchups to be problematic for a given spec/profession (e.g. zerker struggles against everything Mesmer), but I think it's a problem when one profession more or less hard counters another.  You never want to have a situation where you're like, "oh there's a [insert spec here]; guess I lose."

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

I hate that they tried to shove Mesmer into a thief-ish role then wallybagged (i think i made this word up, but it's a synonym of the f word) them. 

 

Virtuoso should have been thiefed (as in fast, roamer) (and thief should have been un-wallybagged) 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Terrorhuz.4695]

13 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I am completely fine with "this class counters 75/50% of this class' derivatives, and is countered by 25/50% (more information on bladesworn needed)" and wish most classes adhered to that kind of balance. That way most people can kind of figure out what to throw at you by looking at you, but you can build in such a way that you can specifically guard against that. That would be a very effective way to balance if it was across the board. 

No, let's be serious for a moment.

1) Every class counters berserker rn. It's not a mesmer thing; play berserker, everyone and their mothers will farm you.
2) No class counters spellbreaker rn. It's not a mesmer thing; play spellbreaker, you will farm everyone and their mothers.

When it comes to spellbreaker, it ignores most of the defensive mechanics (no blind\weakness thanks to res on dodge, no stealth because magebane tether, no blocks because unblockable dagger\fc, no interrupts thanks to stability). It can attack, and it can attack really well.
It ignores half of the offensive mechanics of other classes (plenty of evades, full counter is the strongest defensive mechanic in the game, neither conditions nor power damage works). It can defend, and it defends really well.
You can't burst them down in short fights because 19K HP + heavy armor, nor you can grind them down with long sustained fights thanks to mending + shake it off. It can manage itself really well, even in outnumbered situations.
On top of that, spellbreaker moves REALLY kittenING FAST. It can move, and it does so really well. If it can attack better than everyone else, defend better than everyone else, it can win both short fights and long fights, outnumbering is useless, it moves extremely fast... what the kitten can handle it? 

If the problem was "I can't kill this spellbreaker on mesmer" I wouldn't mind, someone else in my team will take care of that. But that's not the case: the current situation is "there's a spellbreaker in the opponent team, we assume there's no way to kill this guy at all"; THAT is problematic, and that's not a mesmer problem. As it stands right now (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I uninstalled the game), spellbreaker currently wins into pretty much everything, including some otherwise extremely strong classes like hammer cata.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Xyrony Shush.8457]

56 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

If the problem was "I can't kill this spellbreaker on mesmer" I wouldn't mind, someone else in my team will take care of that. But that's not the case: the current situation is "there's a spellbreaker in the opponent team, we assume there's no way to kill this guy at all"; THAT is problematic, and that's not a mesmer problem. As it stands right now (and someone correct me, since I uninstalled the game), spellbreaker currently wins into pretty much everything.

Buff ele just enough, problem solved.

[Spellhunter.9675]

Guys, something is broken in the game. I started to see pink characters in my matches again.

[Xyrony Shush.8457]

3 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Guys, something is broken in the game. I started to see pink characters in my matches again.

Accidently logged into Hello Kitty Online?

[apharma.3741]

9 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

Disrupting players, increasing cooldowns, punishing spam is what Mesmers were originally DESIGNED for.

This is a non-issue.

I hate that they tried to shove Mesmer into a thief-ish role then wallybagged (i think i made this word up, but it's a synonym of the f word) them. 

But, if they continue to develop Mesmer to be more like GW1, I'm all for it.

Unfortunately the playerbase as it is now couldn't deal with GW1 mesmer.

[Spellhunter.9675]

14 minutes ago, ano nimo.3948 said:

Accidently logged into Hello Kitty Online?

I guess so. The most used word in this forum is "kitten".

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

I guess so. The most used word in this forum is "kitten".

Even more reactive than the mesmer that sniped OP's heal, you don't miss a beat

Edited March 2, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Leonidrex.5649]

22 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Welcome to how I feel when people run out of buttons to press vs a hammer warrior. 

Still gotta land constant disables to get that. It continues to counter non defense war, but if I'm not running defense I'll likely delete you if you mess up once. 

good thing mesmer summons bunch of clones that you disable as a byproduct of spamming 😄 
realistically every single full counter will CC something, it is what it is.

EDIT
as for MoD rupting, last time I checked every single class in the game other then necro could protect their healing skills, worst case scenario on a warrior you can swap to signet, is it ideal? no, but if you are so bad to get rupted every time might as well use it right? All other classes have tools to deal with it, guardian has heal with a blick, mesmer/ranger/thief can just stealth, ele doesnt even have a skill to rupt, engi can either stealth with elixir, or get stab depending on builds etc.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Leonidrex.5649

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

good thing mesmer summons bunch of clones that you disable as a byproduct of spamming 😄 
realistically every single full counter will CC something, it is what it is.

EDIT
as for MoD rupting, last time I checked every single class in the game other then necro could protect their healing skills, worst case scenario on a warrior you can swap to signet, is it ideal? no, but if you are so bad to get rupted every time might as well use it right? All other classes have tools to deal with it, guardian has heal with a blick, mesmer/ranger/thief can just stealth, ele doesnt even have a skill to rupt, engi can either stealth with elixir, or get stab depending on builds etc.

"An instant cast skill is kind of annoying you by putting your heal on cd from across the map? better slot healing signet then"

Lol ok.

Idk what you're talking about, but before spellbreaker usability was fixed, I accepted that most mesmers looking in my general direction as warrior would likely have combat advantage, and it continues to be funny that a handful of mesmer mains seem reluctant to do the same for spellbreaker. despite their class walking over the other profession derivatives. Chrono? Mirage? Virt? Core? All poison for warriors not playing spellbreaker. 

Not accusing you or any other mes in particular of anything one way or the other, I'm just tickled in that special kind of way that comes from players getting handed some appropriate difficulty where they previously had none. And when warriors slotted healing signet, people whined so now it's not useful for alleviating that mechanical advantage you seem to be referring to.\

It's wild how people who play certain classes will be blind to the frustration they cause the classes they walk on -until- that class has an answer to a matchup they have been losing for years. 

MoD is fine. It has ways you can counterplay it, and I enjoy the little mindgames that can result from that. The conversation around it as it relates to spellbreaker in particular is humorous and weird though. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[apharma.3741]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

"An instant cast skill is kind of annoying you by putting your heal on cd from across the map? better slot healing signet then"

Lol ok.

Idk what you're talking about, but before spellbreaker usability was fixed, I accepted that most mesmers looking in my general direction as warrior would likely have combat advantage, and it continues to be funny that a handful of mesmer mains seem reluctant to do the same for spellbreaker. despite their class walking over the other profession derivatives. Chrono? Mirage? Virt? Core? All poison for warriors not playing spellbreaker. 

Not accusing you or any other mes in particular of anything one way or the other, I'm just tickled in that special kind of way that comes from players getting handed some appropriate difficulty where they previously had none. And when warriors slotted healing signet, people whined so now it's not useful for alleviating that mechanical advantage you seem to be referring to.\

It's wild how people who play certain classes will be blind to the frustration they cause the classes they walk on -until- that class has an answer to a matchup they have been losing for years. 

MoD is fine. It has ways you can counterplay it, and I enjoy the little mindgames that can result from that. The conversation around it as it relates to spellbreaker in particular is humorous and weird though. 

Thief vs mesmer.
/15flyingquaggans (yes I know there's no message limit now but I like flying quaggans)

[Terrorhuz.4695]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

it continues to be funny that a handful of mesmer mains seem reluctant to do the same for spellbreaker. despite their class walking over the other profession derivatives.

Everyone walks over core warrior and berserker. It's not a mesmer thing.

[Hotride.2187]

55 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Everyone walks over core warrior and berserker. It's not a mesmer thing.

Core actually has a decent chance in not a small number of 1v1 matchups. Vs a power mesmer though you need FC to cover the heal.

[Leonidrex.5649]

8 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

"An instant cast skill is kind of annoying you by putting your heal on cd from across the map? better slot healing signet then"

Lol ok.

Idk what you're talking about, but before spellbreaker usability was fixed, I accepted that most mesmers looking in my general direction as warrior would likely have combat advantage, and it continues to be funny that a handful of mesmer mains seem reluctant to do the same for spellbreaker. despite their class walking over the other profession derivatives. Chrono? Mirage? Virt? Core? All poison for warriors not playing spellbreaker. 

Not accusing you or any other mes in particular of anything one way or the other, I'm just tickled in that special kind of way that comes from players getting handed some appropriate difficulty where they previously had none. And when warriors slotted healing signet, people whined so now it's not useful for alleviating that mechanical advantage you seem to be referring to.\

It's wild how people who play certain classes will be blind to the frustration they cause the classes they walk on -until- that class has an answer to a matchup they have been losing for years. 

MoD is fine. It has ways you can counterplay it, and I enjoy the little mindgames that can result from that. The conversation around it as it relates to spellbreaker in particular is humorous and weird though. 

brotherman, nobody was using healing signet as a " counter " to anything.
they were running healing signet because it healed more then any other healing, it was healing more then most other healing skills while just being a passive, it was nerfed to introduce counterplay in a place where previously was non to be had.
Its still usable healing skill, they just overbuffed mending to kitten and back, no idea why and it overshadows it.
Like kitten, current mending heals more then right now then most healing skills before february kitten patch did lol.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Everyone walks over core warrior and berserker. It's not a mesmer thing.

Tell you what. when Anet fixes another warrior spec so we have something to play, then we can talk about spellbreaker. Again. War lacks the luxury of being able to spec anything else currently, and not be a free kill. I'm sure you can understand why I am unwilling to continuously defend spellbreaker over people framing it as [nigh unkillable god-tier], when it bears a large portion of the weaknesses that keep core and zerker off the playing field to begin with. You are entitled to that opinion, but warriors deserve to play something. We get an alternative, we can start talking about whatever grievances it generates, because for all the framing you do there, it evaporated from MaT presence the moment full counter got tapped with a nerf. If it's not being 4stacked in MaT, I don't care, cause I'm sure none of the mesmers do unless it's spellbreaker. 

2 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Its still usable healing skill

No, it's not. Otherwise it would be used. It requires no user input. If it was worth it at all it would be run. It was nerfed until it no longer put out enough healing to keep a warrior alive. The counterplay introduced by mending being best in slot(mantra of distraction) remains, healing signet is not an answer to anything right now.

Quote

they just overbuffed mending to kitten and back, no idea why-

Because when they nerfed Healing Signet, warriors suddenly didn't have a healing option that kept them alive. Somehow, it still isn't buffed enough to put core/zerker on the map, so...

I'm tired. you want spellbreaker nerfs, allow or advocate for warrior to be played in some other capacity. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Leonidrex.5649]

22 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Tell you what. when Anet fixes another warrior spec so we have something to play, then we can talk about spellbreaker. Again. War lacks the luxury of being able to spec anything else currently, and not be a free kill. I'm sure you can understand why I am unwilling to continuously defend spellbreaker over people framing it as [nigh unkillable god-tier], when it bears a large portion of the weaknesses that keep core and zerker off the playing field to begin with. You are entitled to that opinion, but warriors deserve to play something. We get an alternative, we can start talking about whatever grievances it generates, because for all the framing you do there, it evaporated from MaT presence the moment full counter got tapped with a nerf. If it's not being 4stacked in MaT, I don't care, cause I'm sure none of the mesmers do unless it's spellbreaker. 

No, it's not. Otherwise it would be used. It requires no user input. If it was worth it at all it would be run. It was nerfed until it no longer put out enough healing to keep a warrior alive. The counterplay introduced by mending being best in slot(mantra of distraction) remains, healing signet is not an answer to anything right now.

Because when they nerfed Healing Signet, warriors suddenly didn't have a healing option that kept them alive. Somehow, it still isn't buffed enough to put core/zerker on the map, so...

I'm tired. you want spellbreaker nerfs, allow or advocate for warrior to be played in some other capacity. 

o.O
healing signet is OK healing skill in todays standard, there is no reason to use it because mending exists, which im fairly sure is THE BEST healing skill in the entire game. why take something that is OK when you can take something omega busted.
You can also take something omega busted and still have a weak class, you dont live and breathe by 1 skill

[Terrorhuz.4695]

11 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm tired. you want spellbreaker nerfs, allow or advocate for warrior to be played in some other capacity. 

Can't ask for barrior buffs to me, buddy, I know nothing about the class. The only things I was able to suggest were

1) some way to get resistance, some 0.75s on weapon swap (so it's good enough to cover ONE skill); warriors got that on dodge roll, which in a vacuum makes sense
2) Spellbreaker getting a fat kittening nerf on full counter CD, but spellbreaker as a whole becomes able to strip auras too, because why not.

That's all I have: I can tell you what's bad about spellbreaker. What the rest of the spec needs to be good must come from you guys, because as far as I am concerned I have 0 idea what's stopping you from being meta.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695