Slower movement while in combat.

[Sonork.2916]

Is there a gameplay reason this was done? 

Cause if there was, classes with infinite or high access to super speed get to completely ignore the mechanic.

[The Boz.2038]

37 minutes ago, Sonork.2916 said:

Is there a gameplay reason this was done? 

Cause if there was, classes with infinite or high access to super speed get to completely ignore the mechanic.

Superspeed is not ignoring the mechanic. What are you talking about?

[Sonork.2916]

8 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Superspeed is not ignoring the mechanic. What are you talking about?

So using super speed to permanently move faster than everyone else in combat, isn't ignoring the game mechanic that makes everyone run slower in combat?   Even though the speed decrease no longer applies to them?

[The Boz.2038]

8 minutes ago, Sonork.2916 said:

So using super speed to permanently move faster than everyone else in combat, isn't ignoring the game mechanic that makes everyone run slower in combat?   Even though the speed decrease no longer applies to them?

The speed decrease still multiplicatively applies to them.
Same goes for Swiftness.

The movement speed "penalty" does not get removed if you get swiftness or superspeed; swiftness and superspeed out of combat are faster than swiftness and superspeed in combat. 

[Noodle Ant.1605]

if i remember correctly, ooc unmounted movement speed is 300 units/s while in combat is ~200 units/s, where the cap for both is 400 units/s. technically someone could argue the reverse that ooc superspeed is 66% wasted

i also happen to remember hearing somewhere that increased ooc speed was actually added to the game and combat speed was normal everywhere beforehand, maybe during game development/betas (didnt play then so i wouldnt know)

Edited February 27, 2023 by Noodle Ant.1605

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

swiftness and superspeed out of combat are faster than swiftness and superspeed in combat. 

Superspeed OOC is slower than superspeed in combat.

Anyway, perma superspeed needs investment, the rest of your build will suffer for that. I have no problem with it.

[The Boz.2038]

7 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Superspeed OOC is slower than superspeed in combat.

It's not slower; it's a smaller boost because of the 400 unit speed cap. The 100% speed boost in combat is actually just +90%, because you hit 400 and don't get the rest (unless a cripple/slow/chill/other impairment is in effect). Out of combat, the 294 base movement speed is increased by ~36%, to the same cap of 400.

7 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Anyway, perma superspeed needs investment, the rest of your build will suffer for that. I have no problem with it.

Scrapper says hi 😛

Edited February 27, 2023 by The Boz.2038

[Gibson.4036]

Remember when people actually slotted upgrades because they increased movement speed? I remember leveling my engie with them because core engie just felt so slow compared to profs like Mesmer with blink and temp curtain.

At any rate, OP, theoretically access to combat movement speed is a tool that is balanced against others. It’s not inherently bad that some get it and others don’t if there are trade-offs.

Whether it is currently balanced would be a topic for (many) other threads.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Hashberry.4510]

Its still a mildly entertaining build craft choice for some toons. Not sure if the game still respects any of that stuff.

[Heibi.4251]

I think the bigger issue is how long you stay "In Combat".  I can be half way across the map from something I hit and it still keeps me in combat. I'll have no conditions on me(cripple, vulnerability, etc..), not being hit, around a corner out of sight and still in combat. 

 

The issue is really bad in WvW. And arbitrary. You can be hitting a thief for massive damage and they get out of combat while still 800-1200 away from you with conditions, mount up and leave you in the dust. Meanwhile I can be 5000 plus away from any enemy after leaving combat, fully healed with no one hitting me and I'll still be considered in combat on a guardian.

 

[Sindust.7059]

The changing movement speed is indeed annoying, especially when you're doing JPs where mobs are present. You calculate the jump while out of combat, you get hit as you press the space bar, and suddenly you miss the jump. Absolute kitten of a mechanic in fractals with JPs too.

 

But if your goal is to move quickly, there is a way to do so on many more characters than just scrapper. There is a rune that increases the movement speed from swiftness to 99% (i.e. 1% below super speed), and there are quite a few builds that can get to 100% uptime of swiftness with that rune, with very few additional compromises.

[Doggie.3184]

Would be cool if they just removed the slowdown in combat and removed movement+ stuff and replaced superspeed with swiftness and whatever % tweaking they need... I don't see why there're two movement speed buffs and the slowdown makes every build dependant on swiftness and feel awful if you don't have it, or a passive speed increase~ and some classes get way easier/better access than others.

[shion.2084]

On 2/27/2023 at 5:00 AM, Sonork.2916 said:

So using super speed to permanently move faster than everyone else in combat, isn't ignoring the game mechanic that makes everyone run slower in combat?   Even though the speed decrease no longer applies to them?

Many abilities ignore the common trade offs or limitations.  For instance Teleporting allows you to get to places you'd have to spend another 30 seconds getting to if you didn't have it. (as an engi I hate colliseum)  Invulnerability lets you just not take any damage.  Stealth lets you not be seen right until your hit successfully lands!   And yes superspeed lets you by-pass the typical in-combat slow down you get.

The idea in PvP is that classes that have access to superspeed tend to need it to survive, or to be effective in their roles.   Let's take scrapper.  The current competitive builds only have 1 stun break.   They don't have teleports, they have poor condi removal and mitigation, they have one source of stability on a 30 second cooldown.   So what they get is superspeed to be able to disengage and run-away.   What's the counter for it?  Well immob is very problematic with any kind of cover condi.  Folks who can port onto them.  SB stun for ever's.   Also to get their superspeed to run away they need to have utilities available that you'd typically use in combat. (you typically have to burn a gyro in the current competitive builds).

So yes, much like many of the specialty mechanics in GW2, superspeed lets you ignore certain normal limitations of the game.

[Sonork.2916]

11 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Many abilities ignore the common trade offs or limitations.  For instance Teleporting allows you to get to places you'd have to spend another 30 seconds getting to if you didn't have it. (as an engi I hate colliseum)  Invulnerability lets you just not take any damage.  Stealth lets you not be seen right until your hit successfully lands!   And yes superspeed lets you by-pass the typical in-combat slow down you get.

The idea in PvP is that classes that have access to superspeed tend to need it to survive, or to be effective in their roles.   Let's take scrapper.  The current competitive builds only have 1 stun break.   They don't have teleports, they have poor condi removal and mitigation, they have one source of stability on a 30 second cooldown.   So what they get is superspeed to be able to disengage and run-away.   What's the counter for it?  Well immob is very problematic with any kind of cover condi.  Folks who can port onto them.  SB stun for ever's.   Also to get their superspeed to run away they need to have utilities available that you'd typically use in combat. (you typically have to burn a gyro in the current competitive builds).

So yes, much like many of the specialty mechanics in GW2, superspeed lets you ignore certain normal limitations of the game.

Don't see why any class needs a special boon that gives it the best movement speed in the game, a boon so special it cannot be interacted with like other similar boons.   Sure other classes have special boons, but none can spec into them to keep them 100% of the time.

[Yasai.3549]

1 hour ago, Sonork.2916 said:

Don't see why any class needs a special boon that gives it the best movement speed in the game, a boon so special it cannot be interacted with like other similar boons.   Sure other classes have special boons, but none can spec into them to keep them 100% of the time.

*cough Stealth cough*

[Sonork.2916]

2 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

*cough Stealth cough*

Don't get me started on how badly designed stealth is in this game. XD

[Yme.6145]

10 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

Don't see why any class needs a special boon

Because it's fun and makes classes play different from each other?

[shion.2084]

11 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

Don't see why any class needs a special boon that gives it the best movement speed in the game, a boon so special it cannot be interacted with like other similar boons.   Sure other classes have special boons, but none can spec into them to keep them 100% of the time.

Best movement speed in the game for distance vs. Time is teleport…… by a long long shot

[shion.2084]

1 minute ago, shion.2084 said:

Best movement speed in the game for distance vs. Time is teleport…… by a long long shot

Also, who is keeping super speed 100% of the time in any competitive build in pvp?  Some boons can be kept…. I think you could maybe keep stealth on some classes…. I’d have to think about that.

[Sonork.2916]

7 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Also, who is keeping super speed 100% of the time in any competitive build in pvp?  Some boons can be kept…. I think you could maybe keep stealth on some classes…. I’d have to think about that.

I dunno why there needs to be speed buffs faster than swiftness but in WVW engi's can get 100% superspeed uptime. 

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

I dunno why there needs to be speed buffs faster than swiftness but in WVW engi's can get 100% superspeed uptime. 

Only if you take zephyrite rune and at that point you could also take speed rune.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

I agree with the gist of this thread and would love no difference in speeds but would like to point out that a large number of weapon skills would need to have their relative speeds adjusted too.

In fact regardless of combat speed adjustments they need to be updated. Currently something as basic as swiftness allows you to out run certain projectiles and ground based skills that fire an affect travelling along the ground, superspeed takes it to a whole new level (which I'm okay with because it multiplies it's defensive value).

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

The combat speed penalty applies no matter what speed you are using buffed or not. I don't know what particular situation the op is talking about, but there are a lot of players that run speed hacks. Sad but true. Once you know what they look like and you have played all the classes and used all the boons and experienced the cc condis in combat enough to know exactly what speed a player should be moving at any time, then it becomes obvious when it is not a natural movement of the game.

This might be what the op is talking about. It does make it unfair and is noticeable.

[shion.2084]

1 hour ago, Crazy.6029 said:

The combat speed penalty applies no matter what speed you are using buffed or not. I don't know what particular situation the op is talking about, but there are a lot of players that run speed hacks. Sad but true. Once you know what they look like and you have played all the classes and used all the boons and experienced the cc condis in combat enough to know exactly what speed a player should be moving at any time, then it becomes obvious when it is not a natural movement of the game.

This might be what the op is talking about. It does make it unfair and is noticeable.

Actually the "combat penalty" to speed for someone under super speed is that they get 100 % increase to movement speed.   Whereas out of combat they get like a 36% on the non-combat movement speed.   

From the wiki....

Does not grant any movement speed increase while backpedaling or strafing.

Only provides the 100% increase to movement speed while in combat. Outside of combat it provides close to the same 33% increase to movement speed as Swiftness.

Does not ignore chill and cripple movement slowing effects, but counteracts them somewhat (providing 134% or 150% speed instead of 200%).

Superspeed is not a boon, and this does not benefit from Concentration/Boon Duration, or anything else that specifically affects boons.

[shion.2084]

And given its not a boon, has a max stack of 10 seconds, and doesn't benefit from duration increases... only Zephrite grants you a bonus it looks like ... 33%.  But you'd have that capped at 10 seconds... meaning I guess you'd have to sequentially blow every skill you had on time to keep this up.  So you could use it to run away... or maybe keep distance while pew pew ing.   You'd be faster if you mixed in rocket boots or something like that.   Like remove one of the 30 second gyros (bulwark) and put in rocket boots if your really trying to maximise speed.