Bladesworn | I don't get it (Need buffs?)

[August.5934]

Hello guys, Hello Anet;

 

I am playing bladesworn for a long time now (2 weeks in PVP).

my stats(PVP):

• Power:2200 (with 25 stacks might: 3200)
• Critrate: 61% (with fury: 86%)
• Crit Damage: 239% (with buff: 255%)

I really love bladesworn in PVE and it's doing very fine from my pov (as long as i don't miss Dragon slash), but in PVP... I don't see my damage and i feel like i am not hitting anything. My dragon slash does 6.2k crit at average after charging for a long 3sec? Isn't that abit too low? because on other classses i get those numbers with just one normal skill, eg: on sstaff daredevil thief, i can litrally spam 6k crit damage on a row while escaping fight if i see danger. On beserker, i can spam 8k crit damage everytime my besserk mode is up!, on guardian (-_-! well u know guardian guys).

 

Saber skills, my saber skills PVP dmg seems heavily lacking. My range damage does 2k crit on average (melee: 2.5k) and other saber skills damage also feels very lacking while highest been 4.7k from Artillery Slash. This dmg is only possible if i have 3 stacks of it, while each stack taking 15sec to recharge in PVE & 20sec on PVP. so the skill basically has 60sec CD?

 

Fact be told, i don't always have 3sec time to recharge on mid PVP cause everyone knows what's comming and 3sec is enough time to evade or go out of range or just... evade. 

Now i find one thing more wired, for 3sec i can't move nor protect my self properly and the one skill that actually makes me move has 60sec CD per stack (2stack) and if i don't maintain stability i get CC'ed and all the damage is lost and now i have to wait 5sec for CD to come out while trying to build flow wich takers another 10 - 15sec.

 

After i miss my dragon slash in PVP, i am basically on my saber skill which does very low damage (in PVE too), so i can't put any pressure nor do anything but to kite and trying to survive.

and healing of Bladesworn is just too low cause that healing skill has 25sec CD and heals for 3.2k at start then 3.2k after 5sec (2stacks, each takes 0.7sec to cast).

btw this all dmg is with those stats.

[Image]

[url=https://postimg.cc/3y8fDxv1][img]https://i.postimg.cc/3y8fDxv1/image.png[/img][/url]

Edited February 28, 2023 by August.5934
Image added for a visual.

[Infusion.7149]

It is because it has been made by players a meme heal spec in PVP in the past (Tactical reload shout healer) and now they will not even buff the Dragon Slash melee damage for whatever reason. The burst coefficients are lower than core bursts right now, it is only hidden by the might stacking. Stability on DT was also removed so it is susceptible to CC.

We would not have this spec if Arenanet had given warrior a proper healing support spec with a mainhand weapon that applied barrier or heals (melee staff maybe). Even Soldiers Comfort is underwhelming due to 10s ICD.

[August.5934]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It is because it has been made by players a meme heal spec in PVP in the past (Tactical reload shout healer) and now they will not even buff the Dragon Slash melee damage for whatever reason. The burst coefficients are lower than core bursts right now, it is only hidden by the might stacking. Stability on DT was also removed so it is susceptible to CC.

We would not have this spec if Arenanet had given warrior a proper healing support spec with a mainhand weapon that applied barrier or heals (melee staff maybe). Even Soldiers Comfort is underwhelming due to 10s ICD.

I don't like the idea of being healer or more ssupportive cause i like being tanky and doing more damage and blade sworn isn't tanky nor the damage is high. I always wanted a Monk/martial arts class that keeps punching and kicking but since Anet never brought that up, idk what to actually hold on it.

 

I don't hate Anet, infact i love them for making this awasome game and they are cosy ppl. I believe Anet just doesn't have enough time to see every small details while also working for expensions.

 

But non the less, I really want the damage on Dragon slash and to get stability while charging it.

I believe saber needs damage buffs on PVP & PVE and dmg buff of dragon slash on PVP.

[Infusion.7149]

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Bladesworn_-_Power_Shoutsworn

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/warrior/shoutsworn/
https://guildjen.com/support-bladesworn-pvp-build/

The PVP build was/is running unshakable mountain for sustain. So it is not a healer in the traditional sense any more than a shout warrior running tactics.

Mukluk actually tried to make a PVE quickness healing bladesworn. Obviously that does not work out too well after tactical reload changes. see

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I think people leaping at Healsworn when TR refreshed all ammo skills just goes to show how badly a support warrior build that is not banners is wanted.

[Infusion.7149]

5 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think people leaping at Healsworn when TR refreshed all ammo skills just goes to show how badly a support warrior build that is not banners is wanted.

Immortal Dragon heals in AoE when? 🤣

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Immortal Dragon heals in AoE when? 🤣

I think Soldier's Comfort losing it's CD and scaling based on adrenaline spent is more likely.

[eXruina.4956]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think people leaping at Healsworn when TR refreshed all ammo skills.

they had no choice, it was the only viable option for sustain, defense traitline was bad at the time. and even now defense doesn't really work well with bladesworn because its burst is so easily interruptible and unreliable, at a long cooldown.

 

the only place where i can see bladeswirb shining is as a +1, but even then there are better options with better rewards and at much less risk.

 

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

a support warrior build that is not banners is wanted.

BOONS! HEALS! a staff wielding, shout healing, cantrip slinging shaman comes into mind.

 

but we aren't gonna get elite specs anymore right? 🥺😓

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 hours ago, August.5934 said:

Hello guys, Hello Anet;

 

I am playing bladesworn for a long time now (2 weeks in PVP).

my stats(PVP):

• Power:2200 (with 25 stacks might: 3200)
• Critrate: 61% (with fury: 86%)
• Crit Damage: 239% (with buff: 255%)

I really love bladesworn in PVE and it's doing very fine from my pov (as long as i don't miss Dragon slash), but in PVP... I don't see my damage and i feel like i am not hitting anything. My dragon slash does 6.2k crit at average after charging for a long 3sec? Isn't that abit too low? because on other classses i get those numbers with just one normal skill, eg: on sstaff daredevil thief, i can litrally spam 6k crit damage on a row while escaping fight if i see danger. On beserker, i can spam 8k crit damage everytime my besserk mode is up!, on guardian (-_-! well u know guardian guys).

 

Saber skills, my saber skills PVP dmg seems heavily lacking. My range damage does 2k crit on average (melee: 2.5k) and other saber skills damage also feels very lacking while highest been 4.7k from Artillery Slash. This dmg is only possible if i have 3 stacks of it, while each stack taking 15sec to recharge in PVE & 20sec on PVP. so the skill basically has 60sec CD?

 

Fact be told, i don't always have 3sec time to recharge on mid PVP cause everyone knows what's comming and 3sec is enough time to evade or go out of range or just... evade. 

Now i find one thing more wired, for 3sec i can't move nor protect my self properly and the one skill that actually makes me move has 60sec CD per stack (2stack) and if i don't maintain stability i get CC'ed and all the damage is lost and now i have to wait 5sec for CD to come out while trying to build flow wich takers another 10 - 15sec.

 

After i miss my dragon slash in PVP, i am basically on my saber skill which does very low damage (in PVE too), so i can't put any pressure nor do anything but to kite and trying to survive.

and healing of Bladesworn is just too low cause that healing skill has 25sec CD and heals for 3.2k at start then 3.2k after 5sec (2stacks, each takes 0.7sec to cast).

btw this all dmg is with those stats.

You're right; BS badly lacks for dmg baseline. It requires large amounts of might to be competitive. I suspect that ANet always envisioned it being used primarily with shouts (bc the whole ammo mechanic) and made the dmg low expecting players to have tons of might from FGJ spam.  Whatever the case, I've found that BS sorely lacks dmg without running FGJ.

 

That said, this is my go-to BS build for PvP:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKAFcE2ZYZpsLmFDj5iFtUasE-zZIPjMlABsAk1AA

 

The build enjoys excellent sustain, relatively high toughness, high might output, and guaranteed DS crits with a couple of dmg mods for good measure.

 

It's good but not great; BS will never be truly viable until the put stability back on Dragonscale defense (or do something else to mitigate getting knocked out of DT so often and thus being denied the benefits of all your burst-related traits). Nonetheless, it is still pretty good for casual play and I've had a lot of fun with it.

[August.5934]

20 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

but we aren't gonna get elite specs anymore right? 🥺😓

I am not sure but i think not making a elite spec would be a great down fall because elite specs is just very flavorable and makes things more unique/special. I am sure Anet will keep putting elite spec or maybe in future, they might even put an awakening for a spec which will make class completely different. 
example: Bladesworn awakening! with super fun playstyle and all.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

19 minutes ago, August.5934 said:

I am not sure but i think not making a elite spec would be a great down fall because elite specs is just very flavorable and makes things more unique/special. I am sure Anet will keep putting elite spec or maybe in future, they might even put an awakening for a spec which will make class completely different. 
example: Bladesworn awakening! with super fun playstyle and all.

Personally, I'd rather they NOT make any more especs but rather balance what they already have so that each has a place.

 

Imagine a world where core, zerker, Spellbreaker, and Bladesworn all had distinct--and viable--playsyles in every game mode....sorry, just got a little misty-eyed there for a second.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think Soldier's Comfort losing it's CD and scaling based on adrenaline spent is more likely.

That was a joke about Arenanet taking the shoutsworn as an archetype people enjoy.
If I remember correctly there was a thread about someone wanting martial cadence nerfed and then soldiers comfort buffed. They wanted no cooldown on it but did not consider decapitate spam ; mace was given barrier afterwards (Feb 14) but only for the warrior itself. In that thread I thought that soldiers comfort likely would get 4-5 second cooldown.

[August.5934]

17 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Personally, I'd rather they NOT make any more especs but rather balance what they already have so that each has a place.

 

Imagine a world where core, zerker, Spellbreaker, and Bladesworn all had distinct--and viable--playsyles in every game mode....sorry, just got a little misty-eyed there for a second.

If GW2 had as many class as BDO had then i would obviously request Anet to not make any more classes but GW2 isn't like BDO.

We have 9 total classes with 3 elite spec each, and difference in elite spec is that it allows the use of one new type of weapon for the class and that's it! everything else is like a core expect we get new type of abilities to make things more fun.

Anet isn't even well paid to keep their all working time in GW2. Game is basically free and can exchange gold with in game currency, it's pay once and play forever and it's really really bad at pay2win. It takes time and money to make stuffs in which Anet is unfortunate of. 

From this post, the only thing i can say to Anet is that bladesworn is heavily lacking in damage in PVP and Saber skills needs damage buffs in PVE.

[Jzaku.9765]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Bladesworn_-_Power_Shoutsworn

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/warrior/shoutsworn/
https://guildjen.com/support-bladesworn-pvp-build/

The PVP build was/is running unshakable mountain for sustain. So it is not a healer in the traditional sense any more than a shout warrior running tactics.

Mukluk actually tried to make a PVE quickness healing bladesworn. Obviously that does not work out too well after tactical reload changes. see

 

This was never a good build. If you actually observe his output in this and other gameplay clips he put out around the time it would be incredibly obvious - not to mention any form of comparison to existing healing support builds at the time. In the comments of this video itself, the video creator states that upkeeping quickness will be difficult with only one banner (as presented in the video, meaning the video is very disingenuous already, nearly doubling his healing output from shouts) 

 

Not that it matters after multiple changes to Bladesworn effectively deleting this build, but it seriously bothers me when people present this build to less experienced people with no context on where it lands relative to everything else. 

[eXruina.4956]

1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Imagine a world where core, zerker, Spellbreaker, and Bladesworn all had distinct--and viable--playsyles in every game mode....sorry, just got a little misty-eyed there for a second.

*cough, melee power dps, *cough 🤣

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

This was never a good build. If you actually observe his output in this and other gameplay clips he put out around the time it would be incredibly obvious - not to mention any form of comparison to existing healing support builds at the time. In the comments of this video itself, the video creator states that upkeeping quickness will be difficult with only one banner (as presented in the video, meaning the video is very disingenuous already, nearly doubling his healing output from shouts) 

 

Not that it matters after multiple changes to Bladesworn effectively deleting this build, but it seriously bothers me when people present this build to less experienced people with no context on where it lands relative to everything else. 

If you mean mukluks build, I never said it was good. I said he tried to make a heal bladesworn work in the past.
If you play with enough people people do try this sort of thing, including things like heal willbender and heal mantra mirage.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

That was a joke about Arenanet taking the shoutsworn as an archetype people enjoy.
If I remember correctly there was a thread about someone wanting martial cadence nerfed and then soldiers comfort buffed. They wanted no cooldown on it but did not consider decapitate spam ; mace was given barrier afterwards (Feb 14) but only for the warrior itself. In that thread I thought that soldiers comfort likely would get 4-5 second cooldown.

Decap spam is why it would have to be tiered with lower base at T1 and low scaling, but it could work.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Dragon Trigger's built-in flaw to make you a sitting duck was not a good design choice IMO. Maybe it's splendid in PVE. But boy oh boy is it not good for competitive.

Boost those numbers up. Make being a sitting duck worth it.

[August.5934]

1 hour ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Dragon Trigger's built-in flaw to make you a sitting duck was not a good design choice IMO. Maybe it's splendid in PVE. But boy oh boy is it not good for competitive.

Boost those numbers up. Make being a sitting duck worth it.

competitive? not even close. I played enough Bladesworn in ranked and every time i just keep getting frustrating. If there is a win then it's not me cause 3 idiots(enemy team) chasing after me thinking i will one shot them...well jokes on them.

The fact that we are handicaped cause we can't weapon swap and out saber skills does LOWEST dmg by far while dragon slash is a no-no skill in PVP now and if we miss then it's on 8sec CD (+15sec if you don't have flow).

Meanwhile(i was reaper main), i see reaper having 15 damage skills cause they can weapon swap and have double HP bar while their skill 1... yes SKILL 1, does +6k crit dmg per hit in PVP and thier spin-to-win does +10k damage, their Skill 2 does +7k dmg in PVP.... you have no idea how frustrating it makes me feel just cause everyone can click one button to delete me whenever they want.

Now, in PVE.. Dragon slash does +120k Crit Dmg every 11sec because all the damage comes out at once and we need to prepare & always pre-buff to maxmize the damage. While reaper: +12k/hit and spin-to-win does +40k, so what's the difference? Reaper does more dmg... other classes also do alot more cause thier utility skills have dmg skills as well while warrior's utility is all self-supportive.

Not to mention when charging dragon slash, i am at my most vulnerable cause no protections, resolutions, stability... nothing for +3sec, well maybe protection but it's a normal protection with -33% dmg reduction.

Bladesworn, more i play it in PVP, more i feel like i mustn't play bladesworn in PVP.

[eXruina.4956]

6 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

splendid in PVE.

no 🙂

 

there is no world where bladesworn without the self-root is not better in any game mode. 🤣

[Infinity.2876]

Dragon trigger, I've found is very difficult mechanic to use well and I think they should just get rid of it all together and just give gunsaber a burst skill like the rest of the weapons.

 

making rifle have ammo was a good idea but making traits proc mainly off of ammo and making shouts have ammo funnels you into certain builds.

 

I like the idea of gunsaber being weaker than normal weapons but having really fast attack speed.

[Dahkeus.8243]

Eh, I don't think you can realistically increase damage much for dragon slash attacks in competitive modes.  Devs kinda designed themselves into a hole with that mechanic because at some point, it just becomes a guaranteed 1-shot, even against tanky targets.  Even if Bladesworn doesn't perform well overall in PvP, having a 1-shot skill with so little counter play would just cause mass outrage from other players.

 

I think the only saving grace for Bladesworn in PvP is for gunsaber to be buffed in the direction they took it from the last patch.  If it can provide decent ranged damage, utility (aegis/cc), then there's something useful to Bladesworn outside of dragon trigger.  However, it still needs a lot more and above all else, they need to adjust the speed of the gunsaber skills so that it doesn't feel like you're playing the game in slow motion.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

Eh, I don't think you can realistically increase damage much for dragon slash attacks in competitive modes.  Devs kinda designed themselves into a hole with that mechanic because at some point, it just becomes a guaranteed 1-shot, even against tanky targets.  Even if Bladesworn doesn't perform well overall in PvP, having a 1-shot skill with so little counter play would just cause mass outrage from other players.

 

I think the only saving grace for Bladesworn in PvP is for gunsaber to be buffed in the direction they took it from the last patch.  If it can provide decent ranged damage, utility (aegis/cc), then there's something useful to Bladesworn outside of dragon trigger.  However, it still needs a lot more and above all else, they need to adjust the speed of the gunsaber skills so that it doesn't feel like you're playing the game in slow motion.

I agree; buffing DS damage is just going to get it nerfed. However, they should absolutely put stability back on Dragonscale defense. Making charging DT more reliable is an indirect buff to dmg since you can more consistently get off higher-charged DS attacks.

 

Buffing gunsaber is also good. Blooming Fire should either be completely reworked, or at minimum the cast time should be reduced to 1/2s and the explosion radius increased to 240 so that more than 1 will actually hit a moving target. Would also be nice if the explosions granted might or inflicted vulnerability on hit.

 

Artillery slash should have cast time reduced to 1/2s.

 

Break step should have its CD reduced to 15s. Or keep it at 20s but let it cleanse immobilize.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I really think the answer in the end is to move Gunsaber to the elite skill and put the Dragon Trigger bar onto the function keys. Give each Dragon Slash variant an 8s CD, remove the bullet charging mechanic and self-root, have all DS variants consume all flow on use tiered by the same breakdown as the bullets are now in increments of 10%, make DSD proc off of using a Dragon Slash, make UD and ID give their boons when using DS with stacks and duration adjusted accordingly, have DSM refresh DS CDs, have DD halve the flow used per DS and reduce the CDs of the DS variants by 50%.

From there the armaments can be reworked into advanced kits rather than advanced gadgets.

[Dr Meta.3158]

I don't understand some of the comments in this thread.

As far as pve, bladesworn is amazing. Its tanky and it does a lot of dps both solo and in groups. One person in here said it does low dps because it does a bunch of damage in one shot and nothing inbetween. I'm going to attribute that to a build issue rather than a skill issue as the general raid community seems to not have this issue and the rotation is pretty easy.

As far as pvp, bladesworn fundamentally does not work no matter what stats your through around. I imagine daring dragon was the trait designed with pvp in mind but its just not it. Bladesworn gives up warriors main mechanic of fighting people in exchange for middling damage if you're fighting anyone with decent reaction time while emphasizing warrior's natural weakness even harder than any other warrior spec in existence. Its the poor man's fire weaver; bulky with slow dps but this time without the option for hitting your elite and hoping to kill them in one go. Even at its best point when it couldn't die, it still couldn't do anything to anyone good. It was just annoying and in the way.

Overall warrior is in this weird space where it has high damage, high sustain, and loads of CC with enough mobility to fight but not enough to keep up with most classes. But if they get more of any of the three, they become overpowered and have to be nerfed back down and their main means for catching people, CC spam, is against the nature of gaming, fun. Sounds like a rework is in order.