What the heck is up with engineer damage???

[Sean.6297]

So I've been playing my Scrapper/Holosmith builds for about a month now catching up on all the story content. I randomly decide to log into my reaper today, who I haven't touched in ages. I pop into reaper form and I'm getting like 12 to 30k crits left and right... veterans die in like 2 taps. My god, the damage. I had no idea engineer damage was so insanely awful. I'm lucky if I see an 8k crit on my holosmith. Both are in full berserker, near identical stats. What is going on Anet?!?!

[Mewone.3247]

Why don't you try to measure the damage output objectively by benching at the golem? I don't know how 8k crits means anything when you could be playing a condi build or dealing lots of smaller hits. Scrapper and Holosmith both bench for 38k+, which is slightly higher than any reaper build.

[wasss.1208]

2 hours ago, Sean.6297 said:

I pop into reaper form and I'm getting like 12 to 30k crits left and right...

Reaper is incredibly self sufficent. It pumps all the good boons on itself, all the good condies on the enemies, so it is super convinient, to play solo content with. Its damage while in shroud is insane. On the other hand, if you are out of shroud, or others provide those boons/condies, you'll see your performance get outshone by most of the dps builds.

[Xerxez.7361]

Reaper shines on enemies with low health.

[Jerus.4350]

5 hours ago, Sean.6297 said:

So I've been playing my Scrapper/Holosmith builds for about a month now catching up on all the story content. I randomly decide to log into my reaper today, who I haven't touched in ages. I pop into reaper form and I'm getting like 12 to 30k crits left and right... veterans die in like 2 taps. My god, the damage. I had no idea engineer damage was so insanely awful. I'm lucky if I see an 8k crit on my holosmith. Both are in full berserker, near identical stats. What is going on Anet?!?!

What build are you running?  Gear is only part of it, traits matter a lot as well, and utilities.  If you're running Achemy, Inventions, and Holosmith for example, yeah you won't be doing much damage.  Run the correct traits and utilities and you should be able to melt things. 

 

That said, the above responses are right, Reaper shines in open world solo play.  It has a lot of self boons (including quickness) built in, where you might have to think about that a little on other builds.  I've been going through some map completion and just general OW play this last week on condi mech and core pEngi and I'm usually just blowing stuff up.  With core pEngi it's dodge in for the modifier, blunderbuss, Shrapnel grenade, and then follow up with Throw mine/Grenade Barrage if it's still alive (elites and such I gotta actually do the full rotation).  For cMech I was running a variation to have Alacrity, Might and Quickness coming from my Mech/mech skills, then just layering a few condi hits on enemies and move on to the next batch as the condi's tick them down. 

 

For OW Engi I always liked just the normal qScrapper build, and then for Holo I'd take either Alchemy or Inventions instead of Firearms for tougher enemies/situations and either lean on elixirs with Alchemy to get my boons, or with Inventions pair it with Hard Light Arena to make every protection pulse also cleanse.

 

 

[shion.2084]

6 hours ago, Sean.6297 said:

So I've been playing my Scrapper/Holosmith builds for about a month now catching up on all the story content. I randomly decide to log into my reaper today, who I haven't touched in ages. I pop into reaper form and I'm getting like 12 to 30k crits left and right... veterans die in like 2 taps. My god, the damage. I had no idea engineer damage was so insanely awful. I'm lucky if I see an 8k crit on my holosmith. Both are in full berserker, near identical stats. What is going on Anet?!?!

I can't imagine you'll have damage concerns if you run something like this...

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlRwgYesGWKO0LvtWA-e

Run that with Scholar runes and anything near you will pretty much melt.  You have condi cleanse from mortar flash with shredder, or blast from E gun.  You also have swiftness from acid bomb in lighting field (function gyro Or thunderclap Or spare capacitor).  So basically you always have swift, usually super speed, and lots of quickness.   Things will just die when you are near them use up hammer skills then fill in with mortar at short range and acid bomb.  

[Sean.6297]

I think what might be going on here is more effort is required to reach the same amount of burst damage my reaper is capable of. On reaper I pretty much just press the spin 2 win button and big numbers all over the screen, things die fast. On my scrapper I have to get my blast and shredder gyros up, then proceed with the hammer and toolbelt combos, there's some setup involved. It's all coming back to me now. Reaper felt really powerful, but kind of braindead boring with how simple it is to play. Scrapper feel less powerful, but more buttons to press, so more fun overall.

[Sean.6297]

6 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

I can't imagine you'll have damage concerns if you run something like this...

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlRwgYesGWKO0LvtWA-e

Run that with Scholar runes and anything near you will pretty much melt.  You have condi cleanse from mortar flash with shredder, or blast from E gun.  You also have swiftness from acid bomb in lighting field (function gyro Or thunderclap Or spare capacitor).  So basically you always have swift, usually super speed, and lots of quickness.   Things will just die when you are near them use up hammer skills then fill in with mortar at short range and acid bomb.  

That builds looks like a lot of fun. I haven't used the elixir gun in ages, I'm going to give this build a shot, thanks!

[shion.2084]

8 hours ago, Sean.6297 said:

That builds looks like a lot of fun. I haven't used the elixir gun in ages, I'm going to give this build a shot, thanks!

acid bomb is a blast!  (heh not very pun-y).   Anyway it both does a lot of damage to an area, and it blasts either your light field for condi cleanse or your many lighting fields for swiftness.

[shion.2084]

9 hours ago, Sean.6297 said:

That builds looks like a lot of fun. I haven't used the elixir gun in ages, I'm going to give this build a shot, thanks!

oh let me know how it works out.  It may take just a bit to get the hang of, but I suspect it will give you a smile when you get the relatively straight forward synergies.   I am curious though how it stacks against other classes in open world.   This should destroy mobs near you, and give you range to tag.  But yeah give me some feedback if you'd be so kind (I only pvp)

[Stx.4857]

One of the big reasons scrapper damage while solo is a lot lower than something like reaper is that scrapper gets a large damage modifier from firearms Gm trait that boosts damage by 2% per condition on the target.  In a group this will usually be 20+% damage.  While solo this will only be 4-6%.  
 

also Reaper provides its own quickness for free.  As scrapper to provide permanent quickness you lose a lot of damage in the GM trait.  

[Kuma.1503]

Mechanist is king when soloing on Engineer. You can maintain every relevant raid boon on yourself with the right setup, while pumping 10-15k DPS by yourself and being difficult to kill. Even full Cele builds can dish out damage in the 14k range due to all the burns you pump out. My build runs Bomb Kit and Flamethrower, gives itself perma alac/might and mobs melt to all the burns. 

Holosmith is also decent since it can maintain perma 25 might and quickness, and pumps vuln like no tomorrow. Just run an Explosives/Firearms setup and mobs should evaporate. You can slot in a few diviner tinkets for more boons and still crit cap. 

Scrapper is the lowest damage of the bunch. You mostly play it for the extra barriers from impact savant. It can still deal decent damage, but it has a harder time keeping might up on itself. If you're looking for pure nuking power, the other two elite specs will serve you better. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[August.5934]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:31 PM, Mewone.3247 said:

Why don't you try to measure the damage output objectively by benching at the golem?

The only reason engi can get a 38k DPS is cause of grenade. The build is extreamly paper and using that same build on openworld situation will surely get you killed or you will have to waste lots of time to survive... giving you less time to burst. 

With reaper, you get 2nd health bar and on every auto attack you crit like 10k - 12k easily without doing anything... spin-to-win does 47k crit for me... all this damage while doing absolutly NOTHING.

I am a scrapper main for a very long time and i mained reaper for a while to see what's all the commotions was about.... welp, i even played other classes and scrapper's has the lowest burst damage unless you scarifice all you sustain for pure damage.

In raids, you get buffs and heal left & right and lots of protections so going full paper build doesn't effects as much.

On 2/28/2023 at 9:17 PM, wasss.1208 said:

On the other hand, if you are out of shroud, or others provide those boons/condies, you'll see your performance get outshone by most of the dps builds.

This is very untrue by looking at the open world contents. Reaper's greatsword skills does as much dmg as scrapper's hammer skills or even more while also having a weapon switch to do more damage. When i lose shroud, it takes me less then 5sec to get full green bar and i go back into shroud.

 

On 3/1/2023 at 4:43 AM, Sean.6297 said:

I think what might be going on here is more effort is required to reach the same amount of burst damage my reaper is capable of

Pretty much correct. This days almost every class has the high burst expect for reaper. On Bladesworn i hit vetearn mobs for 120k crit and sometime out of no where, +300k crit. This type of damage, reaper can get easily but scrapper.... boi oh boi, you have to see for yourself and try not to laugh.

 

On 3/14/2023 at 7:46 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

Mechanist is king when soloing on Engineer

Can't agree, M fav thing to do on HoT map is to solo HP. Mechanist main source of damage is the mech bot and let's be honest it's dumb. When i tried to solo the frog queen, the bot basically melted twice very fast and i was like... ok, m done.... On holosmith i pretty much soloed it but it was very hard to sustain so at the end scrapper won cause of it's high sustain thx to Bulwark Gyro. Took me very long time cause very less damage from hammer skills. (lmao, i soloed it in less then 2mins on Bladesworn cause one shots)

 

On 3/14/2023 at 7:46 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

Scrapper is the lowest damage of the bunch. You mostly play it for the extra barriers from impact savant. It can still deal decent damage, but it has a harder time keeping might up on itself. If you're looking for pure nuking power, the other two elite specs will serve you better. 

I believe lowering the scrapper's hammer skill CDs and increasing it's power coefficent will help scrapper much more to be "good" / on par with other classes in game.

Edited March 19, 2023 by August.5934

[Tharan.9085]

On 3/19/2023 at 5:05 PM, August.5934 said:

I believe lowering the scrapper's hammer skill CDs and increasing it's power coefficent will help scrapper much more to be "good" / on par with other classes in game.

Ah yes buffing classes around open world is a good idea

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Shredder gyro, blast gyro into thunder clap, electric whirl and nade barrage followed by auto's fueled by quickness drop almost every enemy in pve in one rotation for me so I disagree scrapper has no damage.

Alchemy 3,2,1

Explosive 1,2,3

Scrapper 1,3,2.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[shion.2084]

28 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Shredder gyro, blast gyro into thunder clap, electric whirl and nade barrage followed by auto's fueled by quickness drop almost every enemy in pve in one rotation for me so I disagree scrapper has no damage.

Alchemy 3,2,1

Explosive 1,2,3

Scrapper 1,3,2.

Running Tools will probably net more damage.  Also tools comes with free condi cleanse on each toolbelt skill.  It also lowers the CD on toolbelts...  

Plus if you run swift kits... you'll have swiftness pretty much all the time for the 5% you gain in scrapper second trait line #3.  You also get additional quickness.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

47 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Running Tools will probably net more damage.  Also tools comes with free condi cleanse on each toolbelt skill.  It also lowers the CD on toolbelts...  

Plus if you run swift kits... you'll have swiftness pretty much all the time for the 5% you gain in scrapper second trait line #3.  You also get additional quickness.

I agree, I just really like alchemy traitline for sustain, I kno sustains not huge issue in pve

[Markus.6415]

On 3/19/2023 at 5:05 PM, August.5934 said:

This is very untrue by looking at the open world contents. Reaper's greatsword skills does as much dmg as scrapper's hammer skills or even more while also having a weapon switch to do more damage. When i lose shroud, it takes me less then 5sec to get full green bar and i go back into shroud

This was very very true back in february where that guy you were answering to wrote that comment. Reaper got buffed greatly since then and it's dps finally came out of the shadows in 10man pve content. In February it was still one of the weakest full dps builds.

[Atomnium.1532]

It's not really an engi problem, reaper is completely overtuned, especially considering how self sufficient it is. 

Modified ammunition, shaped charge, the need for quickness and alacrity to have 100% uptime to have a working rotation makes it hard to compete with a reaper who will reach 100% of its potential while being alone.

Basically, the highest theorical dps of an engi is higher than necro but in open world, in unoptimized groups and pretty much anywhere in the game you'll reach 60% of that amount. Farming jade protocols helps quite a bit, but running around in open world you'll lack alacrity, quickness, vuln stacks, might stacks, fury uptime while the reaper will lack alacrity at most as a dps-relevant boon, which is not that impactful for its performance, or not as much as others, especially holo.

Reaper has 38k dps, wherever, whenever regardless of what surrounds it.

But I don't think any class should compare itself to reaper right now as it's bound to be hardnerfed in the future.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Atomnium.1532

[loregnum.3619]

15 minutes ago, Atomnium.1532 said:

It's not really an engi problem, reaper is completely overtuned, especially considering how self sufficient it is. 

Modified ammunition, shaped charge, the need for quickness and alacrity to have 100% uptime to have a working rotation makes it hard to compete with a reaper who will reach 100% of its potential while being alone.

Basically, the highest theorical dps of an engi is higher than necro but in open world, in unoptimized groups and pretty much anywhere in the game you'll reach 60% of that amount. Farming jade protocols helps quite a bit, but running around in open world you'll lack alacrity, quickness, vuln stacks, might stacks, fury uptime while the reaper will lack alacrity at most as a dps-relevant boon, which is not that impactful for its performance, or not as much as others, especially holo.

Reaper has 38k dps, wherever, whenever regardless of what surrounds it.

But I don't think any class should compare itself to reaper right now as it's bound to be hardnerfed in the future.

Give me a break. Reaper does NOT have 38k dps "wherever, whenever" as you can't reach that just with self boons. If you say it can then please, go to the golem and produce a video to show me this 38k dps figure with only self boons and the golem not having any pre conditions on it. Back up your claim. Given I have hit the golem with only self boons and have not got anywhere near 38k, I would love to see you produce this.

Why should Reaper get hard nerfed? You act like it got boosted by 200% rather than the buff it got. Furthermore, if it was this super build you now claim it is, why am I not seeing reapers everywhere? I still see more mechs out in open world than reapers so its buff from earlier in the month has clearly not made everyone want to play it, which you'd think they would if what you say was even remotely true.

I also have a scrapper and it does not lack quickness or fury uptime in open world while solo as I seem to have fury all the time in combat with her and I have more quickness on her than I do with my reaper outside of reaper shroud. Reaper also doesn't produce fury unless you trait for it along with using chilled to the bone and the "meta" builds don't even use those traits and that skill. 

[Atomnium.1532]

Conditions do not grant bonus to reaper so preconditions are irrelevant, as you said the only lacking boon that is not self provided is fury.

A quick search on youtube benchmark will show you 33k+ with only fury boon granted by instance, by just autoattacking in shroud, Snowcrow claims to reach 40k+ on reaper bench and public benchs of reapers are consistently over 38k.

The buff was not 200%, it was still probably overboard CONSIDERING the ease of access, self reliance and survivability provided by shroud 3 and shroud passive.

Regarding the popularity and the fact that you don't see as many reaper as you would expect, gw2 community is notorious for shifting to meta slowly and  I see more and more reapers to the point that in EU (i dont know where you play), I frequently see metas with 30%+ reapers and fractals with 4 reapers just because why the hell not.
Edit : Just went to a random meta to see, thats pretty much what i experience every day on every map :

https://imgur.com/a/iDQgaLo

If you take challenging power boss like harvest temple CM, it is now averaging better than Virtuoso and is the 3rd most popular class for clear in there.

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/va

Now, and that is probably what you misinterpreted from my post, I am NOT saying that reaper does too much damage, I am saying that it does too much damage while taking into account how easy it is to produce, how safe and how survivable the spec is. If a spec does the same damage as competitive minmaxed picks with less effort, is more survivable and more safe, it will be nerfed or it will reign as the mechanist was. That is my claim.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Atomnium.1532

[AlPower.2476]

On 5/28/2023 at 8:00 AM, Atomnium.1532 said:

Basically, the highest theorical dps of an engi is higher than necro but in open world, in unoptimized groups and pretty much 

 

And we have to consider that highest engi dps is condition holo which is a very recent build, and requires a little effort.

But the highest power engi build, akka, power holosmith, stills lower than reaper dps build, even with allies.

Edited May 31, 2023 by AlPower.2476