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Gyala Delves Feedback [Merged]


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13 hours ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

there's no unique rewards in gyala delve map. What you want for the final reward? 15 generic green equipments you get from opening the multipe chests after the event?

There are a few unique skins that can only be earned in the Delves:  Processing Line Control Bracers, Replica Oni Arms, Holo Cape Projector Skin, Grinning TahKayun Mask, Minister's Hat ~ Some of these items are unlocked for completing certain achievements for the Delves only. 
You can find them on this vender: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Requisitions_Specialist#vendor13

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  • 3 weeks later...

there is no point to play on this map. It is difficult to intuitive perception, the constant absence of keys, and unfinished mechanics with filters. The map repels with its complexity. As a result, there are few people on it, and the whole meta-event usually fails.

 

Edited by Kirk Seeker.6497
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Gyala Delve?

Completed the achievements to then never return.

I am no fan of maps where you only are allowed to explore after a succesful meta.
I am no fan of maps where you cannot run around for exploration without being ambushed and killed without a chance on your own.
I am no fan of maps where you cannot even savely fly a Griffon at full speed without being insta-shot off and plummet to your death for no apparant reason.
Gyala Delve is the must Casual/Explore/Flyer unfriendly map ingame.

After tomorrow's update, that likely will go for all EoD maps.

Not sure what they were thinking, but I for one am not waiting for a map where I ahve to be on my toes 100% of the time. It wears me down. As a handicapped player I need relax time at points and casually explore. Gyala Delve is a pain... Unfortunately I mean that litterly. The most unfriendly map EVER designed in this game.

And now excuse me after my Rant, while I casually fly around in Tangled Depths... such a nice serene map.

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Since a few had a confused icon on my previous post, let me explain why I think this is the worse map design ingame. 

It is the mandatory Meta. It is not run often, so I finally got in a map that unlocked "The Deep" Where I needed the last POI's and Vista.

I immediatly went for it, since time was tight, but unfortunately, the event failed... So I am short 2 POIs only for map completion and have to run the ENTIRE FREAKIN META again for those 2 things.

This is Anti-Player design. And this promotes leeching.
The best thing I can do now, is sit in a map that is doing the meta... and just AFK untill I can get into The Deep and get my 2 POI and leave the map.

This kind of design I loathe with a passion. That a company as ArenaNet designs a map that is so anti-player is beyond me. It makes me was to exit the game instead of do a long winded meta again just to get that darn Map Completion.

If anyone of ArenaNet happens to read this post, please reconsider this design. Not everyone can always be on a succesful meta at the time they are playing. I am even more worries about the extending of the map, making this process MUCH longer.

The "explore after succesful meta" announcement though, makes me believe that the meta (Likely becoming longer) is still gonna be Mandatory. Meaning that likely after tuesday and after done with story, I likely will not return to this map.

I very much doubt chasing players away or making players frustrated was the intended design.

Small sidenote on Ambushes: 

I noticed that when you get close to an ambush - in this case I was above it (FAR above it) with a Griffon, you get dismounted, Gliding wont work, Remounting wont work. Meaning that if you are indeed high up, you WILL fall to your death. The ONLY way to save yourself is the Prototype Positioner Rewinder. Stop the dismount, or at least let us glide/remount. You should ALWAYS be able to escape an ambush without having to need a device like the Rewinder. 

Those 2 facts, the fact an ambush can mean instant death without chance to recover, and map completion is IMPOSSIBLE without a succesful meta, makes me want to fully and utterly ignore the map. 

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1 hour ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

Gliding wont work, Remounting wont work. Meaning that if you are indeed high up, you WILL fall to your death. The ONLY way to save yourself is the Prototype Positioner Rewinder.

False, both gliding AND remounting work. Being demounted by amushers doesn't automatically put you in-combat and neither mounts nor gliders are locked.

Personally, I see the complaint about map completion a bit weird since it's aimed at not much more than rushing it. From my experience, if you play the map, the map completion wasn't and isn't a problem.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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Releasing meta events in parts discourages me from playing. 

The first half has to be repeated for a chance to reach the second part.  Might as well wait until everything is released or face the high chance of burnout.  If the first half is bad, then there is nothing to look forward to in the second part.  Who wants suffer though something they don't enjoy for the chance that it might improve?  Better off waiting to do it all at once.  With the new content cycle that may mean waiting until everything is released or possible just skipping a "mini expansion" because so much of it is bad. 

The mask mechanic serves no purpose other than annoy us.

It might be acceptable if there was a mastery.  As is the mask mechanic interferes with fun.  It is one of the worst ideas I've seen in a while.

Separate the explore time and the meta time.  

If we are getting fewer maps then we need to be able to enjoy them outside of the meta.  Dragons end had the explore first but that was bad because of the overall time requirement in order to get a decent group.  This one flips that, which is also bad because by the time the meta is done the last thing I want to do is spend more time on the map.  If you insist on split increments then have a full reset/close between explore and meta.  (I've already completed the map so the issue isn't completing the meta, but the time sink)

The map is exhausting.  Please avoid slow drawn out fights/mechanics, constant repetition (go collect orbs), etc...

  • The mid and final fight are boring. 
  • Turtles are slow, so try not to force their use so much.  (occasional use can be good) 
  • Provide a reasonable amount of keys.  New players lack the stock pile of materials to burn through to buy keys. 
Edited by suialthor.7164
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The filters make a bit more sense now they have consistent chargess. Not sure I’d waste currency on them.

New armour looks nice. Looked a bit complicated to get from the various tabs, but I need to look at it properly

Story this half was lacking in action. Lots of walking and talking with some bizarre npc choices for the so called trauma 

Great to see adventures. Still need more like bounties, griffin races and more events

Gyala meta still needs work, esp on the end fight

All in all, this update was strange in that instead of using the feedback to improve and bolster things, it was even smaller and less substantial. I wouldn’t say anything was outright bad, but it’s very much below the quality standards you once set yourselves. For this game to thrive, a repeat of this slim two episode needs to be learnt from and improved upon. 

 

Edited by Randulf.7614
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32 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Great to see adventures. Still need more like bounties, griffin races and more events

Of the entire episode, my guildies and I had the most fun with the new adventures on the map. We have only tried the roller beetle race (fast fun and you could even slide of of the map if you make a mistake), the drone race (relaxed fun) and the turtle adventure (crazy yolo fun because the turtle is hopelessly clunky and you play this as a coop with a friend). We have not tried the JP, yet.

Only downside: You can only play them after the map meta succeeded. I guess, Anet has now officially forgotten  what they already had learned from the time-limited HoT adventures.

 

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Just now, Zok.4956 said:

Of the entire episode, my guildies and I had the most fun with the new adventures on the map. We have only tried the roller beetle race (fast fun and you could even slide of of the map if you make a mistake), the drone race (relaxed fun) and the turtle adventure (crazy yolo fun because the turtle is hopelessly clunky and you play this as a coop with a friend). We have not tried the JP, yet.

Only downside: You can only play them after the map meta succeeded. I guess, Anet has now officially forgotten  what they already had learned from the time-limited HoT adventures.

 

Yeah that is a bit silly. I am looking forward to them though, esp now my friend can get his turtle too

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7 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

All in all, this update was strange in that instead of using the feedback to improve and bolster things, it was even smaller and less substantial.

I mean...they weren't going to scrap the back half of a release they likely completed an entire year ago based off feedback from 3 months ago.

They probably made the decision to sacrifice the depth of these 2 releases in favor of focusing on the upcoming expansion at the beginning of 2022, so...kinda hard to unbake the cake.

I think everyone's in agreement that we don't want any more of these budget patches in the future, but they weren't going to backtrack to EoD development when they were basically done with a whole 'nother expansion already.

What it truly feels like to me is that there was supposed to be a living world season in Cantha, but they decided to pivot to this new "closer to industry standard" release model, and so this is the somewhat scuffed stall content we get from new leadership trying to set their new directions for the game up for success.

Assuming what we're being told from leadership at Anet is true and they are finally at the point where there's some breathing room between their release and development timelines, we should hopefully not be getting any more of these panic patches since they shouldn't need them to stay on schedule, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

Arenanet has taken this gamble of releasing mediocre content with the intention of dropping something incredible using the time and resources they saved often, it just puts pressure on the content they are focusing on being worth the jank we get in between.

EoD main story pulled it off by sacrificing IBS, so we just have to hope this next expac will too, and that this leads to consistently meaty content from here on out.

There's nothing wrong with saying we didn't like this patch, but it isn't helpful to pretend like they actually had the leash in terms of resources to come back and totally redo this second half of the release in a 3 month window based off player feedback. They didn't, and even a studio with the money and manpower to do so probably wouldn't.

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11 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

They probably made the decision to sacrifice the depth of these 2 releases in favor of focusing on the upcoming expansion at the beginning of 2022, so...kinda hard to unbake the cake.

Yeah, we've been telling this to ourselves for years now....making excuses for them, that even they would not seem necessary (since their communication towards players basically doesn't exist)....I have no more cope...

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The character writing for "What Lies Within" is unironically the best I've seen in any MMO with the ambivalent takes on the characters. When doing my memories I chose Mai Trin, Blish, and Cinder. And the take on Mai Trin where the commander explicitly says that she was the worst while also saving a lot of people was *chef's kiss.* While doing the Blish recollection it was easy to see how he would fall under the influence of the Inquest as it's mentally unhealthy for anyone that young to be put on a pedestal like he was, then add that the Asura society is already low on the whole "morals and ethics," it's easy to see where a disillusioned young Asura would end up. The monologue that Chul-moo has about leadership when doing the Cinder memories gave me chills.

With all that said, the content within Gyala Delve is underwhelming, this is the meta content itself even though a moving battle is an interesting concept and I hope it's one ANet will repeat. And while I gave props for the character writing the character writing of "Full Circle" is horrible. It feels so cringy and fan-ficcy to me. It feels inorganic and forced.

Edited by Malus.2184
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As much as I love GW2, if the latest patch and the events that are in it, are a sign of what is to come then the future expansions aren't really anything to look forward to, let alone pay for.

Just a really anti-climatic wrap up to EOD, which in itself was a horrible way to end the decade long dragon saga. 

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1 hour ago, mandala.8507 said:

What it truly feels like to me is that there was supposed to be a living world season in Cantha, but they decided to pivot to this new "closer to industry standard" release model, and so this is the somewhat scuffed stall content we get from new leadership trying to set their new directions for the game.

Yeah, that is my impression, too.  Anet replaced the Cantha-based Living World Season 6 with one episode (that was released in two pieces). 

1 hour ago, mandala.8507 said:

Assuming what we're being told from leadership at Anet is true

I don't think Anet has ever lied to us, so I think everything Anet says is true (at least at the time we're told). However, Anet has a history of not promptly notifying us of changes if something fundamental changes (example: game directer for IBS left, WvW development of Alliances was stopped for years, etc. etc.). Current management seems to try to improve this situation with more and regular announcements. I wonder what will happen again if current management leaves the company or will be replaced.

 

1 hour ago, mandala.8507 said:

Arenanet has taken this gamble of releasing mediocre content with the intention of dropping something incredible using the time and resources they saved often, it just puts pressure on the content they are focusing on being worth the jank we get in between.

Someone from Anet management said 2 or 3 years ago in an interview (I don't have the link or exact quote) that the hardest thing to learn for him beeing in a management role, was that the company should not try to deliver "good/best" but "good enough"  game content/service. That would just mean, that Anet would make more money with "mediocre" good enough content and they probably could go intentionally from "hits and misses" (bad ideas but also ideas that create the best things in the industry) to just low-risk mediocre (not very good, not very bad) mainstream content.

 

Edited by Zok.4956
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The entire Gyala Delves updates are a step back overall in quality, where EoD on itself was very good, this just goes back to IBS quality level. It feels very bjora marches like and maybe even worse.

Also cutting this up in two parts just doesnt make any sense except for trying to stretch out content to try to let it appear to be more than we are actually getting. But now they are giving us two very underwhelming content packages, where if it was just the one, it would at least felt more complete and "ok-ish". Now we basically have a disappointment twice. Just a very bad move and killing the good vibe the game was having, even though we are a bit content light atm.

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26 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Now im gonna be that guy and say it: stop it with this trend of introducing real life policies into fantasy world. Im kinda lost now, why do we have non binary charaters in tyria? Is there lore that explains it?

I agree with a lot from your post, but I strongly disagree with the above quoted statements.

Why should there be a reason for the game to explain why non-binary characters exists in the game? The game also does not explain, why there are male and female characters in the game. Is there, for example, lore that explains why there are male and female norns?

And about lore and non-binary characters: The sylvari are a complete race of non-binary trees. They don't reproduce. They are (as they have all the same parent - the Pale Tree) in a way one big family.  And the Pale Tree, which is show with female look in the game, their only parent. But not similar to a "single mom", because there never was a "father" involved.

But when Anet was designing GW2 the studio was probably too afraid to create a visible non-binary race (most games were usually designed for straight white males/boys at the time), so they added to the lore that Sylvari try to mimick human appearance and two genders. And they added some "magic" techno babble to not make it too obvious.

The "lore" does not create itself. The "lore" is what the writers want it to be.

 

54 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Can we leave real life policies out of this fantasy setting?

Fiction (science fiction, fantasy fiction) shows us, as in a fable, a mirror of our own/human behavior and the resulting moral consequences.  Because real life politics has moral consequences, this also could be mirrored in a fantasy setting.

Whether readers/players want to identify them in-game or just want to forget about reality for a few hours in an escapist setting, those are two legitimate desires, but very different ones.

 

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Create good and complex characters. We want interesting stories, interesting characters, some complex moral choices.

I can agree with that 100%.

 

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1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Well that was a dissapointing experience ... again...

Let me start with story. Oh boy... Anet plz, this is not even funny... There were countless lives lost in battle against Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Balthasar, Kralkatorik etc AND the most "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE" moment for our commander was: 1) Vlast that we knew for half an hour, 2) Blish - a golem (which could actually be rebuild, but whatever), 3) Mai Trin that we actually knew for an hour, 4) Cinder, that we didnt actually knew at all... 5) Aurene, that is still alive. 

Is this for real? Countless deaths, battlefields full of dead people, comrades, friends and this is the thing that causes "emotional damage" to a seasoned soldier/military man? Commander went from one horror to another, died a few times, came back to life, have looked Death itself in the eyes and returned and THIS is what hurting him? This is an insult to common sense! This is the main reason i try to skip the story of GW2 as fast as i could, so i dont have to do anything with this twisted perspective on the reality and common sense itself. 

Completely ignoring that Blish... can't be rebuilt as his soul/self is gone in the mists?

Also, you completely missed the whole point of UNRESOLVED emotional/mental thoughts. Eir and mentor? Doesn't work. The player has dealt with those issues. 

It's not "They are the most emotional damaging things ever" It's "These are emotional/mental events that the commander has not gone through and processed, unlike the rest."

 

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

The whole Chul Moo story was uninspired. Why should we care for a fate of unknown NPC#57683 that suddenly had some relationship with Yao and Chul Moo? And for what? So that Yao could say "Nah dont worry about it" in the end? Where is the point in that? Where was the build up?

Now im gonna be that guy and say it: stop it with this trend of introducing real life policies into fantasy world. Im kinda lost now, why do we have non binary charaters in tyria? Is there lore that explains it? Why does suddenly the only option my male commander has is to date a pigeon if he want to stay out of this "policy"? Can we leave real life policies out of this fantasy setting? Create good and complex characters. We want interesting stories, interesting characters, some complex moral choices. Most of the people do not care about NPCs sexual preferences at all because this is the worst way you can draw our attention to a uninteresting character. 

 

First bit, What? The point was how various characters were looking at stuff they let linger in their minds. Chul-moo allowed his personal grief at accidentally killing one of his captains overwhelm his mind. That was the point.

Also... The whole "date" thing wasn't about sexual preference? It was "Yo pick a partner for the night and maybe flirt some."

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1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Well that was a dissapointing experience ... again...

Let me start with story. Oh boy... Anet plz, this is not even funny... There were countless lives lost in battle against Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Balthasar, Kralkatorik etc AND the most "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE" moment for our commander was: 1) Vlast that we knew for half an hour, 2) Blish - a golem (which could actually be rebuild, but whatever), 3) Mai Trin that we actually knew for an hour, 4) Cinder, that we didnt actually knew at all... 5) Aurene, that is still alive. 

Is this for real? Countless deaths, battlefields full of dead people, comrades, friends and this is the thing that causes "emotional damage" to a seasoned soldier/military man? Commander went from one horror to another, died a few times, came back to life, have looked Death itself in the eyes and returned and THIS is what hurting him? This is an insult to common sense! This is the main reason i try to skip the story of GW2 as fast as i could, so i dont have to do anything with this twisted perspective on the reality and common sense itself. 

The whole Chul Moo story was uninspired. Why should we care for a fate of unknown NPC#57683 that suddenly had some relationship with Yao and Chul Moo? And for what? So that Yao could say "Nah dont worry about it" in the end? Where is the point in that? Where was the build up?

Now im gonna be that guy and say it: stop it with this trend of introducing real life policies into fantasy world. Im kinda lost now, why do we have non binary charaters in tyria? Is there lore that explains it? Why does suddenly the only option my male commander has is to date a pigeon if he want to stay out of this "policy"? Can we leave real life policies out of this fantasy setting? Create good and complex characters. We want interesting stories, interesting characters, some complex moral choices. Most of the people do not care about NPCs sexual preferences at all because this is the worst way you can draw our attention to a uninteresting character. 

Now for the mechanics:

The "second part of the map" is small and kinda underwhelming from my experience. 

New adventures are kinda good idea, but the rewards are .... meh at best... Its just basically a "do it once for achiev and forget" type of reward. 

New armor skin is good i guess. I personally dont like hi-tech things, but i see many people that actually like it. 

And i believe thats it apart from some non essential changes to air filters. 

Im gonna have to stay with my initial thought on Gyala - if this is the kind of content we are getting in paid expacs, im not impressed. 

Now let the "confused" emotes rally here! For the ConfuKing!

I agree.

A lot of the convo and characters feel like ... Twitter really.
I have always criticized the lack of depth and seriousness in GW2 storytelling. There are a few moments in story that were really good though, but most get very ruined by commical characters and the lack of depth, which is a huge shame.
I'm hoping for something darker and impactful in story, like in GW1 where I remembered -every- important NPC in the story and threat as well.

I also understand the need for 'inclusivity', but at this point it's not contributing to the story and it's just making the characters feel shallow and blergh. 
How about we focus on what's important instead of what gender xyz are?
The modern touch to storytelling is what is making it feel shallow. I was hoping that this part of the story would give us a big cliffhanger for the next update -- something dark, tragic even?
Instead we defeat boss with 'positive' energy and it's...what? 
A lot of choices for Commander were odd as well; a lot of heavier things happened. Heck, we had to put an end to Trahearne ourselves too, we -DIED- to Balthazar, we -watched- as Aurene got pierced by Kralkatorrik, Palawa Joko was messing with us, there's...a lot that could've been picked from the story that bore more weight than the options given. 

The story needs more depth and weight.

Terrible thing to say, but I feel 0 care for all the characters that surround us...and I find Gorrik to be extremely annoying. Most Asura characters are written like annoying teenager nerds who talk way too much -- I preferred their approach from GW1.

With depth and weight, as well as darkness in story, come memorable moments that leave impact. I truly hope that we see a better and more quality turn to story than what we got.
I loved the first part of Gyala story, and I feel the second part should've been even heavier and more emotional.

However!
I did enjoy the dinner part. Gave me a good laugh there and it was humor placed in a good moment and in a good way!

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I didn't like (most of) the new content. Solving a energy crisis and emotional problems feels like watching the news. That's not the escapism I'd like to experience. Also, the story and the meta boss and the events to get to him are super repetitive. For the very, very first time I'm literally too bored to do the achievements for this content patch.

I agree with Blur: The dinner was the only thing that put a smile on my face.

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48 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

I agree with a lot from your post, but I strongly disagree with the above quoted statements.

Why should there be a reason for the game to explain why non-binary characters exists in the game? The game also does not explain, why there are male and female characters in the game. Is there, for example, lore that explains why there are male and female norns?

And about lore and non-binary characters: The sylvari are a complete race of non-binary trees. They don't reproduce. They are (as they have all the same parent - the Pale Tree) in a way one big family.  And the Pale Tree, which is show with female look in the game, their only parent. But not similar to a "single mom", because there never was a "father" involved.

But when Anet was designing GW2 the studio was probably too afraid to create a visible non-binary race (most games were usually designed for straight white males/boys at the time), so they added to the lore that Sylvari try to mimick human appearance and two genders. And they added some "magic" techno babble to not make it too obvious.

The "lore" does not create itself. The "lore" is what the writers want it to be.

 

Fiction (science fiction, fantasy fiction) shows us, as in a fable, a mirror of our own/human behavior and the resulting moral consequences.  Because real life politics has moral consequences, this also could be mirrored in a fantasy setting.

Whether readers/players want to identify them in-game or just want to forget about reality for a few hours in an escapist setting, those are two legitimate desires, but very different ones.

 

I can agree with that 100%.

 

It's that last bit that you agree with 100% (i.e. create a good story/characters) that I think is the sticking point for a lot of people.  In essence, the complaint is that we write boring characters and contrive scenarios that seem to exist because they mirror the cultural crusade of the day in the developer's home country as our first priority when compelling characters and good storytelling should come first.

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48 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Why should there be a reason for the game to explain why non-binary characters exists in the game? The game also does not explain, why there are male and female characters in the game. Is there, for example, lore that explains why there are male and female norns?

And about lore and non-binary characters: The sylvari are a complete race of non-binary trees. They don't reproduce. They are (as they have all the same parent - the Pale Tree) in a way one big family.  And the Pale Tree, which is show with female look in the game, their only parent. But not similar to a "single mom", because there never was a "father" involved

Not here to argue, but i want to make my though clear. Im not against using different kind of characters including non binary etc, but there must be a purpose for them to exist in the context of the story. That is achieved by a lore explanation which provides setting and that specific characteristic must play some kind of a part in the story. Your own example with sylvary is: 1) built in lore, 2) explained, 3) serves a purpose for storytelling. Non of the abovementioned is there for Yao. It just "happened" out of nowhere. And if you take that "non binary" thing out of this character, will you have a single thing to remember this NPC? 

52 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

The "lore" does not create itself. The "lore" is what the writers want it to be.

Not quite. The lore is the setting of the world. Background, a scene if i may where certain actions are played out. If you play Shakespeares Romeo And Juliet in medievil scenery you wouldnt want to see a couple of blasters/imperial stormtroopers in there would you? 
 

1 minute ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's that last bit that you agree with 100% (i.e. create a good story/characters) that I think is the sticking point for a lot of people.  In essence, the complaint is that we write boring characters and contrive scenarios that seem to exist because they mirror the cultural crusade of the day in the developer's home country as our first priority when compelling characters and good storytelling should come first.

^This. Amen. 

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