The new (or old) enemy. [The new LW Lore discussion]

[EdwinLi.1284]

As mentioned in old post before...

Below will contain SPOILERS so progress pass the line at your own SPOILER risk..

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So the Oni are back and we are getting some Madness, Fear, and etc induce events during the first half of this chapter for LW (or more specifically a continuation of EoD) with it affecting the Commander as past regrets are surfacing.

It is certainly Realm of Torment related considering we are fighting Demons and the madness theme going on.

What are your guess so far with what we have been given.

For me I am holding off for now since we do not have the full picture yet and many things can go many ways due to the Madness theme going on. Whoever this new enemy is they will regret trying to us Sieran (and the other Order Mentors) against us.

Edited February 28 by EdwinLi.1284

[Randulf.7614]

Kanaxai seems the obvious theory crafting, but I’m not convinced this is anything more than a two episode filler at this stage just to epilogue EoD 

[Pax.3548]

What called my attention was that the commander, after all this time, instead of being rested and relaxed since the dragon crisis was finally solved after a decade, was exhausted (according to Gorrik at that restaurant) after this chapter, I'm begging to believe the commander, after finally ending the decade long conflict, have began to think on the price they paid, the friends lost and all of the sacrifices made, I really liked were this is going, exploring the psychological scars this conflict left on the commander

[EdwinLi.1284]

4 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Kanaxai seems the obvious theory crafting, but I’m not convinced this is anything more than a two episode filler at this stage just to epilogue EoD 

ya for now it is edging to Kanaxai or something similar due to Oni, literally Outcasts, and a lot of things we have seen before with Kanaxai. However, as I said, I will hold for now since this is still only the first half of this chapter in the continuation of EoD. 

3 hours ago, Pax.3548 said:

What called my attention was that the commander, after all this time, instead of being rested and relaxed since the dragon crisis was finally solved after a decade, was exhausted (according to Gorrik at that restaurant) after this chapter, I'm begging to believe the commander, after finally ending the decade long conflict, have began to think on the price they paid, the friends lost and all of the sacrifices made, I really liked were this is going, exploring the psychological scars this conflict left on the commander

A part of me expect this to happen eventually. Guess they decided to skip the build up to this moment as something happening during the time between the end of EoD to current events in this new chapter.

With the stress of the world ending by the Elder Dragons gone, the thoughts about what the Commander could have done is certainly reaching his/her head now. However, survivor's guilt is something that can happen to anyone who just survived a long lasting war where countless others have died. It is a matter of how will the Commander deal with it and how will the survivor's guilt affect him/her until he/she can resolve this issue.

This situation is certainly bad because now we have a enemy that knows how to use such a thing to attack the commander mentally when the signs of survivor's guilt are now surfacing. In the past, similar attacks was not much of a issue because the thought of saving the world and not wanting other's sacrifice be in vain push the Commander forward. However, with those thoughts gone, which normally push aside the Commander's negative thoughts, and only thing left is to reflect on past actions, the guilt is building up. 

 

Edited March 1 by EdwinLi.1284

[maxwelgm.4315]

I was a bit underwhelmed by the heavy reusage of dragonvoid assets, I hope it doesn't end up connecting back to that and it's really just reusage.

[Lord Korag.8439]

8 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

With the stress of the world ending by the Elder Dragons gone, the thoughts about what the Commander could have done is certainly reaching his/her head now.

So it is clear then. We need more Elder Dragons to cure the commander.

 

Also, this all could be doing of Menzies, I have seen too much members of the Shadow Army to be just an conclusion. But hey, it is still possible some random/unknown demon works there and borrows folks from others, like: "Ima do some stuff under the Jade Sea, could use few hands. Dare gimme some shadow peeps, Menzies?"
**Menzies shoveling shadow guys under the Jade THROUGH AN YET UNKNOWN MIST PORTAL?!**

As for the Underworld creatures (aataxes, shades...), I assume with Grenth departed and Dhuum imprisoned again (and forever - I mean as stated by those chains),they have basically no leadership and therefore pour like a water everywhere they can, especially THROUGH THE YET UNKNOWN MIST PORTALS!

Edited March 1 by Lord Korag.8439
Adding the though about AN YET UNKNOWN MIST PORTAL?!

[Eekasqueak.7850]

May just be a lower tier demon that gorged on enough ley energy it's become more of a threat. 

[Lord Korag.8439]

Quote

Coppied from the Void thread as it connects also to this thread:

The more important question is: Is the Haze an identical twin of the Void? Has the Void remained hidden under the Jade? Or does this have nothing to do with the Void at all? Can demons produce magic similar to Void magic? Is Void even a specific type of magic or just twisted full ley line magic? Is ley magic even good magic as it hurts us? Is there even some benefiting magic? Is Aurene going to end corrupted? If she monitors magic, does she know about the haze? If she does, why didn´t she let us know? Can the haze hide from her for the demon magic is not a natural part of dragon spectrum of Tyria magic? Is there another Abaddon (**looks at Menzies**)?

[EdwinLi.1284]

5 hours ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

So it is clear then. We need more Elder Dragons to cure the commander.

 

Also, this all could be doing of Menzies, I have seen too much members of the Shadow Army to be just an conclusion. But hey, it is still possible some random/unknown demon works there and borrows folks from others, like: "Ima do some stuff under the Jade Sea, could use few hands. Dare gimme some shadow peeps, Menzies?"
**Menzies shoveling shadow guys under the Jade THROUGH AN YET UNKNOWN MIST PORTAL?!**

As for the Underworld creatures (aataxes, shades...), I assume with Grenth departed and Dhuum imprisoned again (and forever - I mean as stated by those chains),they have basically no leadership and therefore pour like a water everywhere they can, especially THROUGH THE YET UNKNOWN MIST PORTALS!

 

 

Cannot do that but another world ending threat maybe just enough to distract the commander from these thoughts.

Jokes aside, the Commander will need some therapy session involving his/her Survivor's Guilt or atleast something close to it.

As for the Underworld, Desmina has taken rulership over the Underworld and now manages it due to events of the Underworld Raid and the Seven Reapers died due to Desmina's actions (suspected as a attempt to remove any threat to her becoming the new Ruler of the Underworld) so they are not leaderless but these Demons may have a different leader considering there is maybe something leading the Oni.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

18 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Kanaxai seems the obvious theory crafting, but I’m not convinced this is anything more than a two episode filler at this stage just to epilogue EoD 

That's exactly what they more or less told us it is. It's a story that will lead in with small hints to the next expansion. Meaning it won't be a major-lead in, and mostly stand-alone.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

19 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

So the Oni are back and we are getting some Madness, Fear, and etc induce events during the first half of this chapter for LW (or more specifically a continuation of EoD) with it affecting the Commander as past regrets are surfacing.

It is certainly Realm of Torment related considering we are fighting Demons and the madness theme going on.

What are your guess so far with what we have been given.

For me I am holding off for now since we do not have the full picture yet and many things can go many ways due to the Madness theme going on. Whoever this new enemy is they will regret trying to us Sieran (and the other Order Mentors) against us.

As Randulf mentioned, Kanaxai is the obvious secret identity of the transforming human-demon we fight and was the source of the madness and spread of fear in GW1. It's all retreating old lore, with "minor" worldbuilding retcons along the way, in an overall disappointing quantity with good quality release for a full year of development.

 

To hold off on my disappointment over retreading yet another GW1 nostalgia-bait plot and location with minor retcons and obviousness that only GW1 fans would catch, my opinions on the post in short-form:

• Basically the bandwagon theories I really didn't want to see. I can already see next episode being "Somehow, Kanaxai returned" and we were shown the exact method - ley-line healing!
• They call this the deep, but the place is completely incorrect, though the Deep area is very clearly modeled after the eastern half of The Deep - the Deep was connected to Cavalon, which is north of Dragon's End. The Deep in GW2 is, in fact, underneath Aurios Mines. Now this minor major retcon of completely shifting locations does make some sense, as in GW1 Kanaxai's presence was felt in Aurios Mines strongest outside of the Deep. But still, a bit weird to just move The Deep a third of the way across the Jade Sea. It'd be like swapping the locations of Raisu Palace and Nahpui Quarter just because...
• Now what's really curious was their choice of filling the roster of the Nightmare Horde - Aatxes are natives of the Underworld and often employed by Dhuum, and Shadow Beasts and Abyssals are members of the Shadow Army serving Menzies. There were none of either in the Nightmare Horde in GW1.
  • This is actually a contradiction in lore, likely done because "well they're the same species" or the like. No better than using White Mantle models to fill in for Purists because "they're both human supremacists" or something, tbh.
  • One thing I liked was finally, finally, bringing in the og Nightmare mob from GW1 by doing something I felt they should have done since core - take a skelk model and make it shadowy (back in core, I would have given it a death shroud effect tbh, but this works too). Yay Fog Nightmares by a different name!
• Visually interesting choices. Curious why there are living plantlife in what was technically the actual ocean... Or why there are waves going downward from the "ceiling".
  • Most curious what the kitten is with the risen corals - this feels like another mishandling of "well it's models of that kind of entity, we can just use that" as done with Abyssals and Shadow Beasts above... As if these models were used because they're "creepy coral" but the map designer never stopped a second to question if it has meaning or lore. Normal coral would have been far more befitting - especially since it happens in a single corner, and normal coral is actually used further south, closer to the corruption....
  • Tangentially related as minor retcon-ish: The big ley-line hub being called out as a special source of power for Cantha's energy crisis is weird, because EoD calls out the Harvest Temple as being above a ley-line hub. Why couldn't they use that one, which they knew about, and would have had access to all this time?
• Meta is fun, if a bit simplistic. Basically a very simplified Drizzlewood imo, with a non-threatening boss battle.
• Separate from the new map/plot, is the starter instance. A nice little failed get together, but what's weird to me is how Gorrik responds to the Commander: they call them out as being exhausted and stressed. This is a complete 180 from the Commander at the end of End of Dragons... and is getting pretty similar to Braham's 180 between HoT and S3. Except that time a year actually passed, and while a year a development passed, the story journal lists this as 1335 AE - same year as EoD events. Unless this is actually happening before The Dead End instance, it's a bit weird. Retcon #4.

Very short update. If this is meant to replace a LWS, well... color me unimpressed. It's barely even equivalent to a half-map episode from IBS, imo.

 

Overall, for an update that was a year in production, it's a bit disappointing. It's fun, sure, and despite being the most disappointing, re-treading, and boring plothooks to take while ignoring all those established in EoD, it was written well, especially that final instance. But the heavy full-blown re-use of art assets that have specific lore relevance in a place that has zero lore relation, the complete shift of location for the, well, location, and other issues above really feel like this was a half-assed episode similar to Long Live the Lich, and that 80% of ANet's resources are elsewhere.

I get this is just a bridging epilogue for EoD, but the bridge is looking a bit shaky atm.

 

The most interesting is the possible implication of Kanaxai's origins being revealed. Not that such was ever necessary, IMO, for a one-off side boss. He was a nightmare demon that create and arguably feast on nightmares, parallel to torment demons, could have kept it at that.

The most interesting is the possible implication of Kanaxai's origins being revealed. Not that such was ever necessary, IMO, for a one-off side boss who was weirdly popular for little focus. He was a nightmare demon that create and arguably feast on nightmares, parallel to torment demons, could have kept it at that.

Extrapolating on this: I got a theory because we see several "phases" of these Oni, and Gorrik, Rama, and yao curious refer to it as a singular demon. In GW1, Kanaxai existed, but so did multiple "Aspect/Shadow of Kanaxai" NPCs:

• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_of_Kanaxai
• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kanaxai_Aspect

There was an old bandwagon theory (built off of the in-universe theory of Oni being transformed Outcasts) that Oni would eventually evolve into these Aspects/Shadows. The theory combined is basically that it was an evolutionary processes that begins with Kanaxai mindkittening people. Basically:

Normal people -> going insane (outcasts) -> transformed into Oni -> transformed into Aspects

And the meta/final story boss seems to reflect this. The boss starts as a singular dude, then in phase 2 he becomes ragged with skin breaking apart, then in phase 3 he basically becomes a Ley-Line Anomaly, then finally in the fourth stage he becomes an Oni.

If this is going to end up being "Somehow, Kanaxai returned" situation as I am currently 90%+ believing, then this may be Kanaxai himself, and we're seeing his original, human form. Which is... interesting. Could suggest that Kanaxai is similar to Ai from Sunqua Peaks Fractal, or Saul and Deimos from Bastion of the Penitent - both cases are demons form from the negative emotions (guilt mainly) and are associated with darkness/shadow/nightmare.
Incidentally, the Ravaging Wanderer looks very similar - in a "the model got updated but is otherwise the same figure" sort of way - to the Cliffside Colossus' Archdiviner, imo.

Edited March 1 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

9 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

I was a bit underwhelmed by the heavy reusage of dragonvoid assets, I hope it doesn't end up connecting back to that and it's really just reusage.

5 hours ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

The more important question is: Is the Haze an identical twin of the Void? Has the Void remained hidden under the Jade? Or does this have nothing to do with the Void at all? Can demons produce magic similar to Void magic? Is Void even a specific type of magic or just twisted full ley line magic? Is ley magic even good magic as it hurts us? Is there even some benefiting magic? Is Aurene going to end corrupted? If she monitors magic, does she know about the haze? If she does, why didn´t she let us know? Can the haze hide from her for the demon magic is not a natural part of dragon spectrum of Tyria magic? Is there another Abaddon (**looks at Menzies**)?

In the story, Gorrik basically states that it is the Void, but a bit different. After the experiments he called it "unfiltered magic" (which is Void per EoD) but with "something added".
This "something added" seemingly made it... less harmful. But didn't change its appearance - and they call this new combination Haze (because original words is hard?). It isn't Dragonvoid, which was Void mixed with Elder Dragon influence and that is all gone - there are no dragon-related voidstuff in the new map. Just basic Void and "Haze".

As to the Haze being hidden from Aurene - it must, otherwise she would have known of the big kitten ley-line nexus present in the area.

7 hours ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Also, this all could be doing of Menzies, I have seen too much members of the Shadow Army to be just an conclusion. But hey, it is still possible some random/unknown demon works there and borrows folks from others, like: "Ima do some stuff under the Jade Sea, could use few hands. Dare gimme some shadow peeps, Menzies?"
**Menzies shoveling shadow guys under the Jade THROUGH AN YET UNKNOWN MIST PORTAL?!**

As for the Underworld creatures (aataxes, shades...), I assume with Grenth departed and Dhuum imprisoned again (and forever - I mean as stated by those chains),they have basically no leadership and therefore pour like a water everywhere they can, especially THROUGH THE YET UNKNOWN MIST PORTALS!

The issue with it being Menzies related to me is that it's just the two more bestial members of the Shadow Army. And as I mentioned above, their presence in the Nightmare Horde wasn't in GW1, despite the obvious Oni/Outcast/Nightmare Horde lore in this update and map.

It really just feels like they were filling the Nightmare Horde roster - which had bestial Nightmares in GW1 - with existing bestial Nightmare creatures, and didn't stop to consider those two are explicitly and solely Shadow Army members. Or stopped to consider long enough to not include the more humanoid Shadow Army members.

So I am not expecting a Menzies tie-in personally. A portal to the Realm of Torment or some other "nightmare realm" is... theoretically plausible.

Also not all Aatxes and Shades followed Dhuum, it should be noted - they're mostly natives to the Underworld, but some were employed/"domesticated" by Dhuum's minions.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

38 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

• They call this the deep, but the place is completely incorrect, though the Deep area is very clearly modeled after the eastern half of The Deep - the Deep was connected to Cavalon, which is north of Dragon's End. The Deep in GW2 is, in fact, underneath Aurios Mines. Now this minor major retcon of completely shifting locations does make some sense, as in GW1 Kanaxai's presence was felt in Aurios Mines strongest outside of the Deep. But still, a bit weird to just move The Deep a third of the way across the Jade Sea. It'd be like swapping the locations of Raisu Palace and Nahpui Quarter just because...

The Deep is just a term referring to any underground space below the Jade Sea. Like actually BELOW the Jade Sea, not just "we dug slightly under the jade" the game never tries to imply this is 100% the exact same space we fought Kanaxi in GW1

38 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

• Tangentially related as minor retcon-ish: The big ley-line hub being called out as a special source of power for Cantha's energy crisis is weird, because EoD calls out the Harvest Temple as being above a ley-line hub. Why couldn't they use that one, which they knew about, and would have had access to all this time?

Because they don't have access to it. We can go under the jade around the Harvest Temple and see no ley-lines. Knowing that a ley-line hub exists there doesn't mean they can access it.

38 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Overall, for an update that was a year in production, it's a bit disappointing

Well, it wasn't a year in production. The last year was largely spent re-implementing LWS1, getting the game ready for the Steam release, the balance patch, and the various QoL updates we saw. They probably only got like 4 real months of development on this.

Edited March 1 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Randulf.7614]

I also didn’t like the way my norn was crying and whining during the fight because of the three hallucinations. We fought through it with Zhaitan and Mordremoth, we are quite used to such things and acting out of character was very, very jarring. 
 

But, yes I expected more substance after a year. It’s quite a wait to continue on and it now has an even steeper, uphill task to clamber up. It wasn’t completely,y awful, it just wasn’t enough

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The Deep is just a term referring to any underground space below the Jade Sea. Like actually BELOW the Jade Sea, not just "we dug slightly under the jade" the game never tries to imply this is 100% the exact same space we fought Kanaxi in GW1

Find me a source for that, because the Deep area in GW2 roughly shares the same shape as the cave section of GW1's The Deep, and the GW1 was a specific location - where Kanaxai was imprisoned. And at no point do I ever recall it being "the entirety of the Jade Sea's deep sea space is called The Deep".

And this isn't "actually BELOW the Jade Sea" either - otherwise the sea was straight up hollow when it was liquid. Keep in mind, the Jade Sea was liquid 450 years before GW2, and Kanaxai was trapped by the Jade Wind in an undersea cave dubbed The Deep.

2 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Well, it wasn't a year in production. The last year was largely spent re-implementing LWS1, getting the game ready for the Steam release, the balance patch, and the various QoL updates we saw. They probably only got like 4 real months of development on this.

Different teams, Sajuuk. They stated that both Expansion 4 and the new Canthan map were in development, shortly after EoD's launch at the same time they announced LWS1 Return. From what we know, Indigo, Joe Kimmes, and the team in charge of the festivals (maybe some additionals) were the ones doing LWS1 Return.

Finally, we’re happy to confirm that we’re working on the next story update for Guild Wars 2, including a new map set in the Cantha region. The story (and how we tell it) can go in so many interesting directions now that the Elder Dragon threat is addressed!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-the-future-of-guild-wars-2/

So yes, this was in development for a full year. And yes, they also had other things in development, including the first mini-expansion.

 

Edited March 1 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I also didn’t like the way my norn was crying and whining during the fight because of the three hallucinations. We fought through it with Zhaitan and Mordremoth, we are quite used to such things and acting out of character was very, very jarring. 

And Tower of Nightmares.
And Shining Blade trials.
And with Trahearne, during Knight of the Thorn.
And as the Commander recovered their memories after dying.

It's a very overused subplot by now.

[Randulf.7614]

19 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And Tower of Nightmares.
And Shining Blade trials.
And with Trahearne, during Knight of the Thorn.
And as the Commander recovered their memories after dying.

It's a very overused subplot by now.

Yes, I thought there was more - just couldn’t place them. Sometimes we undermine our own heroics. Not sure I need the continuous internal dissection of character in an action based video game. Not convinced it fits.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

54 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Find me a source for that, because the Deep area in GW2 roughly shares the same shape as the cave section of GW1's The Deep, and the GW1 was a specific location - where Kanaxai was imprisoned. And at no point do I ever recall it being "the entirety of the Jade Sea's deep sea space is called The Deep".

And this isn't "actually BELOW the Jade Sea" either - otherwise the sea was straight up hollow when it was liquid. Keep in mind, the Jade Sea was liquid 450 years before GW2, and Kanaxai was trapped by the Jade Wind in an undersea cave dubbed The Deep.

Well

A. I never said the entirety of the of the Jade Sea's deep sea is called the Deep. I never even mentioned the deep sea in the first place.

B. It really doesn't look like Kanaxi's lair at all, or even share the same basic shape.

C. If you want to get technical the Deep was never under Cavalon. Te entrance to the deep was at Cavalon, but it goes very far to the east from there to the point we can't actually say where it was.

D. What I said was the deep is like the "depths" of Tyria, it can refer to any cave system under the Jade Sea

E. Something I forgot to mention in my first post. There is nothing suggesting these Oni, or any of the other demons in this new map, are part of the nightmare horde, or any organized group. They're just demons wandering into Tyria at this point since Kanaxai, Dhuum, Abbadon, and seemingly Menzies, are all dead, and their larger organizations wiped away.

54 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Different teams, Sajuuk. They stated that both Expansion 4 and the new Canthan map were in development, shortly after EoD's launch at the same time they announced LWS1 Return. From what we know, Indigo, Joe Kimmes, and the team in charge of the festivals (maybe some additionals) were the ones doing LWS1 Return.

Finally, we’re happy to confirm that we’re working on the next story update for Guild Wars 2, including a new map set in the Cantha region. The story (and how we tell it) can go in so many interesting directions now that the Elder Dragon threat is addressed!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-the-future-of-guild-wars-2/

So yes, this was in development for a full year. And yes, they also had other things in development, including the first mini-expansion.

Konig..... work on a new project technically beings on concept art/brainstorm phase. IT doesn't mean someone was actually sitting down and making models, textures, landscape, events, story, or actually making the product itself. No one was physically making this for a year.

Edited March 1 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Ogwom.7940]

This is something I made and put on Imgur in a rushed attempt to get my ideas out along with my recent findings in this new map.

Just interesting things to think about.

Of course everything in my Imgur post may be completely wrong or totally reaching.

I am just putting a tinfoil hat on for fun. I don't remember a lot of the lore, as I have been away from the Guild Wars universe for quite some time.

 

https://imgur.com/a/NEQUjbz

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

54 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

B. It really doesn't look like Kanaxi's lair at all, or even share the same basic shape.

They expanded and redesigned it for purpose of the meta, like all GW1->GW2 maps were altered, but the Oni platforms room lines up with the Aspect of Depletion room, the Celestial Pool matches with where you fight the Aspect of Decay (particularly the notion of a small "island" surrounded by watery lower ground), and the Littoral Cave matches where you fight Kanaxai himself.

Compare:

• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Deep/Map
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gyala_Delve#Interactive_map

You also have the same green-blue haze mist along the ground. But it's been flooded a bit.

54 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

C. If you want to get technical the Deep was never under Cavalon. Te entrance to the deep was at Cavalon, but it goes very far to the east from there to the point we can't actually say where it was.

This is what I said, and this is still far north of the current map. The current map's placement of The Deep lines up with The Aurios Mines - and you can see the distance aplenty here.

Or in my edit of lining up underground areas with the surface map I made a while back: https://imgur.com/sSpJT1H

54 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

D. What I said was the deep is like the "depths" of Tyria, it can refer to any cave system under the Jade Sea

Do you have anything to actually support that claim, I ask again? Because The Deep is specifically referencing that one mine in GW1:

The demon that caused the corruption of these outcasts is known by the name Kanaxai, bringer of despair. He is also the source of the oni that appear all over Cantha as waking nightmares. If you wish to prove your loyalty to the Luxons, head into the caves known as The Deep that lead toward the ancient mine, and destroy the outcasts and the demon Kanaxai.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Eurayle

The Deep refers to specific caves, and nothing says that it's a cave system across most of the Jade Sea like the Depths of Tyria.

54 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

E. Something I forgot to mention in my first post. There is nothing suggesting these Oni, or any of the other demons in this new map, are part of the nightmare horde, or any organized group. They're just demons wandering into Tyria at this point since Kanaxai, Dhuum, Abbadon, and seemingly Menzies, are all dead, and their larger organizations wiped away.

According to GW1 lore, all the oni were created by Kanaxai, and Gorrik curiously outright calls it one demon - one Oni.

We will see in 3-4 months if it is Kanaxai returned, but these demons were originally tied to Kanaxai, and the situation is very much the same as Kanaxai and his Nightmare Horde.

Whether this is Kanaxai returned, or Nightmare Horde remnants, remains to be seen.

That said, such doesn't change the fact that Aatxes and Shades are natives to the Underworld, while Abyssals and Shadow Beasts are members of the Shadow Army, and neither held any connection to the Oni directly or indirectly. So it's a weird choice to place them into this, without suddenly Menzies and/or Portal to the Underworld being shoved in the western half of the map. 

54 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Konig..... work on a new project technically beings on concept art/brainstorm phase. IT doesn't mean someone was actually sitting down and making models, textures, landscape, events, story, or actually making the product itself. No one was physically making this for a year.

Sajuuk.... brainstorming and concept art is still working on a project. I never said "physically making". I said in production. And that is referring to all stages of the production pipeline. And to make it clear, to quote myself:

5 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Overall, for an update that was a year in production, it's a bit disappointing

"A year in production" != "a year physically making the models, textures, landscape, events, story, or actually making the product itself"

Edited March 1 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

24 minutes ago, Ogwom.7940 said:

This is something I made and put on Imgur in a rushed attempt to get my ideas out along with my recent findings in this new map.

Just interesting things to think about.

Of course everything in my Imgur post may be completely wrong or totally reaching.

I am just putting a tinfoil hat on for fun. I don't remember a lot of the lore, as I have been away from the Guild Wars universe for quite some time.

 

https://imgur.com/a/NEQUjbz

Recently got told of those mushrooms, and I find them very weird.

I wonder if either those or the risen corrupted corals will be brought up in the next update, or if there's some side event I've not seen that talks about them, because otherwise these are very weird additions to just slap in randomly. Otherworldly mushrooms and Risen corruption without rime or reason...

Really hoping it's not simply a case of the map designer not bothering to double check what the models were for, and just choosing to reuse models that fit the general desire of "creepy".

[anninke.7469]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Yes, I thought there was more - just couldn’t place them. Sometimes we undermine our own heroics. Not sure I need the continuous internal dissection of character in an action based video game. Not convinced it fits.

I don't really mind the Commander having isues. What I DO mind is how their "friends" react to those.

"Friend" one: "Commander, you look like you've had more than enough and might completely break down any minute... So let's use you as a bait for this mindkittening demon! Ain't I great?"

"Friend" two: "Yeah, it's really important work, sorry bro, just deal with it."

The other folks around: "And could you maybe stop fainting all the time? We had to CARRY you, you know."

Might be just me though. Me who would appreciate NPCs caring a little bit more. At least one of them.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

SPOILERS FOR LIVING WORLD SEASON 4 AND END OF DRAGONS

As for the presence of the Void in the deeps, its established in End of Dragons that void energy and ley energy are the same thing, but when the dragon's process raw magic they disassemble it and reassemble it again, resulting it a filtered magic. The magic that flows out into the world from the dragons is purified ley energy, while the magic they hoard is corruptive dragon energy, and all of these are the exact same thing just with different properties:

- Void energy seems to be some form of raw time and space, and tends to unravel anything it comes into contact with. It doesn't seem to actually be corruptive on its own (aside from unmaking things), but does become sentient in large concentrations, such as with the Dragonvoid. It seems to be similar to exotic particles in our world.

- Ley energy is void energy with the void filtered out by the dragons (most recently, only Aurene). Like void energy, it becomes sentient in large concentrations, and is known to be highly toxic, though not corruptive. The numerous bounties  suggest that the toxicity may especially affect the mind. Its hinted at in-universe that filtering void energy into ley energy makes Tyrian physics possible.

- Dragon energy is a specific domain of energy produced by each dragon that is extracted from ley energy and takes on corruptive properties that slowly remodel living beings into monsters (depending on the domain). Its possible for dragon energy to contain multiple domains like with Kralkatorrik.

- God energy is specific to the Human gods and seems to come from outside of Tyria.  Balthazar converted dragon energy to god energy and this seemed to give Kralkatorrik special abilities, such as corrupting a Djinn in Jahai Bluffs.

 

The "haze" in this episode is just void energy, likely because Aurene doesn't know of this ley nexus or doesn't have the capacity to filter the entire world just yet, or perhaps will never be able to. Its stated in the campaign that this energy has been modified somehow, to add an extra element to it and stabilise it, so instead of unraveling everything it just becomes kind of physically present and toxic.  I would say that given the numerous demons in the depths this is probably some kind of other-worldly energy similar to god energy. If Soo-Won could do it, then its reasonable to believe other beings from the Mists or beyond could do it as well. Its possible the Void exists throughout the Mists and other worlds, and that Soo-Won's way of doing things was just one way, not the only way.

 

As void energy is still a power source just like ley enegy, it can be used by living beings to become more powerful although like with the jade tech mechs, I imagine this invites them to some level of possession since it becomes sentient, perhaps even sapient, when concentrated.

Edited March 1 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Randulf.7614]

1 hour ago, anninke.7469 said:

I don't really mind the Commander having isues. What I DO mind is how their "friends" react to those.

"Friend" one: "Commander, you look like you've had more than enough and might completely break down any minute... So let's use you as a bait for this mindkittening demon! Ain't I great?"

"Friend" two: "Yeah, it's really important work, sorry bro, just deal with it."

The other folks around: "And could you maybe stop fainting all the time? We had to CARRY you, you know."

Might be just me though. Me who would appreciate NPCs caring a little bit more. At least one of them.

And all of that should be secondary to actually putting in a story. All we really got was “something weird is going on in the mines”. That’s not enough right now given it’s been a year of no new story. All the tea party stuff, the ptsd stuff is fine as long as it fits around a strong central narrative. Which it didn’t. Basic story structure seems to be missing here and that’s highlighted by the fact we should have got 2-3 times more than what we got.

I don’t mind the long wait between episodes, if we don’t lose out on quantity and quality. If you compare this with Ls4 eps 1&2 and 4 where we got real meaty and emotional episodes on a tight schedule, there’s now big expectation for a massive second part here next quarter.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Didn't the jade sea absorb a bunch of Zhaitan energy which could be the cause of the risen corals?