The new (or old) enemy. [The new LW Lore discussion]

[HotDelirium.7984]

Sorry devs of Sunqua Peak who hid crucial plot points behind the CM. The Night Falls txt in dragon's end and the fractal hint at what is to come but I wish they did better at showcasing it. Never hide story behind a CM.

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Sorry devs of Sunqua Peak who hid crucial plot points behind the CM. The Night Falls txt in dragon's end and the fractal hint at what is to come but I wish they did better at showcasing it. Never hide story behind a CM.

I'm sorry but what crucial plot points are in the CM of Sunqua Peak?

What text in dragon's end do you talk of, I can't find anything about a book or text labeled "The Night Falls" on wiki. Where is this text exactly? What is the name of the object?

There is no crucial plot point hidden behind CM Sunqua Peak, nothing about that fractal has been directly relevant besides understanding what two kids in Seitung are talking about in random dialogue.

[HotDelirium.7984]

5 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I'm sorry but what crucial plot points are in the CM of Sunqua Peak?

What text in dragon's end do you talk of, I can't find anything about a book or text labeled "The Night Falls" on wiki. Where is this text exactly? What is the name of the object?

There is no crucial plot point hidden behind CM Sunqua Peak, nothing about that fractal has been directly relevant besides understanding what two kids in Seitung are talking about in random dialogue.

-You want to be snarky BUT you want my answers? lol

-My bad, I guess the resolution of the story and the hint at fear, guilt, doubt, and sorrow demons has nothing to do with anything ever.

-The text of the timer- Night Falls in xx:xx. Easter egg of Nightfall. Please don't waste either of our time trying to disqualify my info- they're literal facts.

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

-You want to be snarky BUT you want my answers? lol

-My bad, I guess the resolution of the story and the hint at fear, guilt, doubt, and sorrow demons has nothing to do with anything ever.

-The text of the timer- Night Falls in xx:xx. Easter egg of Nightfall. Please don't waste either of our time trying to disqualify my info- they're literal facts.

You are the one appearing to be leaping to conclusions that Sunqua peak *which has nothing to do with ONI* is heavily and directly related to events active right now. What about Sunqua peak CM is so required to understand what is going on right here? Unless you are meaning that comment completely unrelated to the new story update.

So your other point is the event timer for... Dragon's End? I'm sorry to point out but that is merely a timer. There is no meaning to it beyond a "Reach the Harvest temple before night falls or the meta event chain ends. The void starts flanking the attacking army and they decide to retreat.

Before any information can be qualified or disqualified, you need to present actual information. You say Sunqua Peak has highly relevant information that is crucial to understanding the story, but there isn't. You say the "text in dragon's end" and then produce the... event timer.

There is no snark here, just a straight forward question. What about the story here in the new map is not able to be understood unless you did the Sunqua peak CM?

Unless you are meaning that the story of Sunqua peak by itself has story elements behind the CM, which is true and by design. But that is an isolated story unrelated to the rest of the world. The CM is supposed to represent actively dealing with the Spellcasters sorrow and grief, where the base fractal is merely calming her down somewhat.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Kalavier.1097

[Nebilim.5127]

On 3/2/2023 at 5:43 PM, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Related to all this: where do folks think the story is going based on what you know right now? (I'm sure there are theories earlier in the thread and I intend to read through it all when I'm on break. Currently in a VO session so I gotta step away from the forums for a bit.)

 

My personal guess is that the demons from the god's realm are phasing into reality now there is nothing stopping them. Since we are seeing creatures from those place, maybe the arc will be about Menzies and his army. With balthazar gone, the gods and the rest of the dragons gone, Tyria is pretty much an easy take now.

[Nebilim.5127]

On 3/2/2023 at 5:35 PM, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Counterpoint:

• At the beginning, we only knew that workers were being "rebellious"
• We discovered the haze and its effects on jade and the workers
• We discovered that the PC is especially susceptible to the effects of said haze
• We now know how the demon is leveraging emotion to weaken its prey
• We discovered a ley-line power source that is potentially a solution toward the energy problem, but also a source of healing for the demon

 

This is a multi-part story, so we weren't going to answer all the questions in one go.

 

All that stated, though, I totally hear you. There were elements that fell flat for you (or just weren't enough). I appreciate you sharing that with us.

I can tell you why it fell flat to me. The storyline is great but the execution was...desirable to say the least. it was TOO short, not from lack of story but for lack of not showing to the player.

 

We could have gotten at least 1 more instance where the commander go around interacting with the jade brotherhood and finding them going crazy on you. Maybe that could have been a good chance to have introduced the commander bitter past too with more hallucinations, even making him fight them! All leading to some big encounter with a bunch of hidden oni much like the ambushes events.

This was the shortest story content we have gotten since season 2. And those were done on a faster cadence, so i'm a bit afraid of the future right now.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Nebilim.5127

[HotDelirium.7984]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

You are the one appearing to be leaping to conclusions that Sunqua peak *which has nothing to do with ONI* is heavily and directly related to events active right now. What about Sunqua peak CM is so required to understand what is going on right here? Unless you are meaning that comment completely unrelated to the new story update.

So your other point is the event timer for... Dragon's End? I'm sorry to point out but that is merely a timer. There is no meaning to it beyond a "Reach the Harvest temple before night falls or the meta event chain ends. The void starts flanking the attacking army and they decide to retreat.

Before any information can be qualified or disqualified, you need to present actual information. You say Sunqua Peak has highly relevant information that is crucial to understanding the story, but there isn't. You say the "text in dragon's end" and then produce the... event timer.

There is no snark here, just a straight forward question. What about the story here in the new map is not able to be understood unless you did the Sunqua peak CM?

Unless you are meaning that the story of Sunqua peak by itself has story elements behind the CM, which is true and by design. But that is an isolated story unrelated to the rest of the world. The CM is supposed to represent actively dealing with the Spellcasters sorrow and grief, where the base fractal is merely calming her down somewhat.

Now I know by this essay you just want to argue lol. I don't have the time nor the inclination. "highly relevant information that is crucial to understanding the story" is not something I even said. I will not be reading any further replies. Good bye.

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

On 3/6/2023 at 8:55 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Not directly, but that seems to me to be done for the sake of enhancing the mystery. But there is one dialogue which implies this, even ignoring the whole "former Luxon mine dealing with a location called The Deep and Onis":

Jade Brotherhood Miner: I told you, it's some kind of curse! Why else would everyone be fighting each other down here?

Jade Brotherhood Worker: Working in poisonous mine with you idiots all...day? Night? Yeah, I wonder why people are fighting.

Jade Brotherhood Miner: It's more than just that! Crack a book once in a while, learn some history!

Jade Brotherhood Worker: You're gonna be history if you don't shut up about your stupid books!

Jade Brotherhood Miner: See? It's getting to you too!

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Hollow#Ambient_dialogue

This dialogue indicates that this is tied to Kanaxai's stuff in GW1, since it's known history about this place. What other history could be talked about?

I read this as "What's happening here is clearly comparable to something that happened before and is well known." Not "This is related to the history of this exact geographical location."

 

While Anet hasn't always been completely faithful to previous lore, I don't think they'd arbitrarily move a historical location if they could avoid it. In this case, placing the new map in the old location would have been easy. So I do believe this new "Deep" is intended to have a degree of separation with the old "The Deep".

[maxwelgm.4315]

31 minutes ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

I read this as "What's happening here is clearly comparable to something that happened before and is well known." Not "This is related to the history of this exact geographical location."

 

While Anet hasn't always been completely faithful to previous lore, I don't think they'd arbitrarily move a historical location if they could avoid it. In this case, placing the new map in the old location would have been easy. So I do believe this new "Deep" is intended to have a degree of separation with the old "The Deep".

The issue with that is how (purposely?) similar they made the place called "The Deep" to where you fight Kanaxai before, even though it's definitely a different place geographically. The assets are all over in this episode by the way - random Risen coral from Orr, random plant life within the Jade Sea, random Mist mushrooms from the "????" zone in Jahai Bluffs. Not to mention the Nightmare enemies present used to be native to the Underworld only (Aatxes) and completely and explicitly unrelated to Onis, but apparently this is also a thing now. With all this in mind I would be hesitant to assume anything from the map design alone.

[Lord Korag.8439]

12 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

leaping to conclusions that Sunqua peak *which has nothing to do with ONI* is heavily and directly related to events active right now. What about Sunqua peak CM is so required to understand what is going on right here? Unless you are meaning that comment completely unrelated to the new story update.

Do you really think devs had do idea they are going to build Gyala Delve and the demon plot around it within EoD while developing Sunqua Peak fractal, which basically acted as an vanguard of the expansion, giving us the first glimpses of Cantha?

 

Now, geographically speaking, Sunqua Peak – as a mountain – is located in the western half of Shing Jea Island. With the plot concentrating in the Cantha presently, there is a very likely possibility that a map containing the other half of the island is going to be added. I mean, there is even a gate in the west of Seitung Province leading to those parts.

 

Of course you could argue that Gyala Delve could be granted a monopoly for this plot and west Shing Jea could contain an entire different plot, however, in gw1 Oni appear basically over all the Cantha and, honestly, build a plot just around one map? Even Primordus got more space and that is a dragon who got nearly removed from the game 🥲.

 

So yes. I think we could see Sunqua Peak in an open world map and yes, I think it could contain demons. And lastly yes, I do think it could (though not necessarily has to) tie to the plot of Sunqua Peak fractal.

 

Personally, I´d recomend waiting until this plot fully wraps out before making the final judgement.

[Lord Korag.8439]

3 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

Risen coral from Orr, random plant life within the Jade Sea, random Mist mushrooms from the "????" zone

Those are not Risen corals. Those are dead corals which died due to the exposition to the air. This ones died due to the jadeing the water, practically transforming the water into the stone - therefore same situation as drying it.

 

Plant life is everywhere. Mining in the Gyala Delve area, or Jade Sea in general, has been going on for over 200 years, back there in gw1 Luxons were mantaining this activity. So it is only natural the plant life moves to the areas where the jade was removed from.

 

For the Mist shrooms, these are a tough one. But still, demons are in the area and demons come from the Mists too. So, if demons managed to get there, why couldn´t few of those mushrooms? Or I could give you a crazier hypothesis: I assume we all know how mushrooms work biologicaly, so theoretically it could grow through the ground into the ley lines under the Jahai Bluffs and, considering these have also spores – which I bet they do, for in ??? the air in that cave is causing halucinations, clearly made by the toxic spores released by the mushrooms – the spores could just fly, like the railway, all the way down under the Gyala Delve and take a root there for a sole reason of liking the growth conditions there. Actually, when I think this through, this is not a crazy hypothesis at all, as it could very easily happen.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Lord Korag.8439

[Lord Korag.8439]

4 hours ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

On 3/6/2023 at 8:55 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Not directly, but that seems to me to be done for the sake of enhancing the mystery. But there is one dialogue which implies this, even ignoring the whole "former Luxon mine dealing with a location called The Deep and Onis":

Jade Brotherhood Miner: I told you, it's some kind of curse! Why else would everyone be fighting each other down here?

Jade Brotherhood Worker: Working in poisonous mine with you idiots all...day? Night? Yeah, I wonder why people are fighting.

Jade Brotherhood Miner: It's more than just that! Crack a book once in a while, learn some history!

Jade Brotherhood Worker: You're gonna be history if you don't shut up about your stupid books!

Jade Brotherhood Miner: See? It's getting to you too!

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Hollow#Ambient_dialogue

This dialogue indicates that this is tied to Kanaxai's stuff in GW1, since it's known history about this place. What other history could be talked about?

I read this as "What's happening here is clearly comparable to something that happened before and is well known." Not "This is related to the history of this exact geographical location."

I read this as "What's happening here is clearly comparable to something that happened here before and is known in the books, however not necessarily to the majority of the population as they may not be interested in the Canthan legends." Therefore "This may be related to the history of this exact geographical location."

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

While Anet hasn't always been completely faithful to previous lore, I don't think they'd arbitrarily move a historical location if they could avoid it. In this case, placing the new map in the old location would have been easy. So I do believe this new "Deep" is intended to have a degree of separation with the old "The Deep".

Thing is, without scrutinizing a bit, it's easy to assume there is no specific location for The Deep in GW1, and additionally, the new map is located underneath The Aurios Mines, which was also affected by Kanaxai's Nightmare Horde pretty heavily. So it isn't much of a leap to assume "The Deep can be anywhere" + "The Aurios Mines is also affected by Kanaxai" == "The Deep is under The Aurios Mines".

This is a similar issue to how EoD devs said New Kaineng City was built in a spot which wasn't urbanized before, and was instead naga territory (which is even said in the naga events in the zone, too), but on the GW1 world map, you can clearly see the peninsula urbanized. It's as if "because there was no map there in GW1, it's free real-estate".

Similarly, while Urgoz's Warren is connected to House zu Heltzer in GW1, and eventually moves westward (though unlike The Deep fully overlapping with other places like Ferndale), it wouldn't surprise me if they decide to move it south, near Amatz Basin.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Kalavier.1097]

13 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Now I know by this essay you just want to argue lol. I don't have the time nor the inclination. "highly relevant information that is crucial to understanding the story" is not something I even said. I will not be reading any further replies. Good bye.

Crucial = important. There is no part of the currently released story that is confusing if you haven't done the CM of Sunqua peak. If the plot point is not Crucial, then it is not directly relevant. I'm here to discuss, but you aren't actually discussing anything. You made two statements and I'm trying to understand what you mean, but you refuse to elaborate and are childishly going away.

1 hour ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Do you really think devs had do idea they are going to build Gyala Delve and the demon plot around it within EoD while developing Sunqua Peak fractal, which basically acted as an vanguard of the expansion, giving us the first glimpses of Cantha?

Now, geographically speaking, Sunqua Peak – as a mountain – is located in the western half of Shing Jea Island. With the plot concentrating in the Cantha presently, there is a very likely possibility that a map containing the other half of the island is going to be added. I mean, there is even a gate in the west of Seitung Province leading to those parts.

Of course you could argue that Gyala Delve could be granted a monopoly for this plot and west Shing Jea could contain an entire different plot, however, in gw1 Oni appear basically over all the Cantha and, honestly, build a plot just around one map? Even Primordus got more space and that is a dragon who got nearly removed from the game 🥲.

So yes. I think we could see Sunqua Peak in an open world map and yes, I think it could contain demons. And lastly yes, I do think it could (though not necessarily has to) tie to the plot of Sunqua Peak fractal.

Personally, I´d recomend waiting until this plot fully wraps out before making the final judgement.

I'm sure they have laid it out, but I still fail to see any crucial plot points in this release that require the Sunqua CM to understand.

No other fractal directly ties into or is crucial to understanding story elements elsewhere. You don't need to play twilight Oasis to understand Daybreak and the boss fought in that story release/open world. It adds some information sure, but it's not crucial.

In GW1 ONI appear in echovald and jade sea, with a much smaller presence on Shing Jea.

I'm not saying the ONI arc will resolve in this singular map. I'm asking what these "crucial plot points" that are hidden being Sunqua CM are. I'd honestly be surprised if we go to Shing Jea in relation to this immediate arc, but who knows.

Now, if this release was on Shing Jea with a meta event revolving around/at the mountain and directly referencing and featuring things from the CM that make it hard to understand what happened without playing it? I could understand.

At the moment, I'm simply asking for clarification and expansion of what they mean. We have as much reason to believe we'll go to Shing Jea next as we do that we'd visit the old estate in the mountains where Togo got the peace treaty with the Tengu signed, or the turtle highlands. Nothing directly implies we are going to Sunqua.

 

[Lord Korag.8439]

21 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

This is a similar issue to how EoD devs said New Kaineng City was built in a spot which wasn't urbanized before, and was instead naga territory (which is even said in the naga events in the zone, too), but on the GW1 world map, you can clearly see the peninsula urbanized. It's as if "because there was no map there in GW1, it's free real-estate".

I found this very odd, as I always considered that texture standing for buildings ---> other parts of the city.

 

It seems the naga were more impresive builders than we could even imagine, or canthans just built the new city over the old one.

Either way, they sure had to demolish an impresive number of old buildings to estabilish New Kaineng.😆

[DragoTheWise.7256]

I really like the theme that they are setting. Love to get back into some demons/realm of torment.

Irt the Commander, I think they are due to face all the trauma they've had over the years. They haven't had a chance to slow down and really take the time to take care of themselves emotionally and mentally. Just taking care of one thing after another again and again and again. Not slowing down unless the Commander is knocked out from an injury.  The Commander is ripe for manipulation and tbh, I hope we see the Commander break down and just let it all out. I want to hear the buried emotions surface and pour out now that the dragon saga is complete. I want to hear the Commander cry whether that is by themselves or with someone else. I really hoping the demon pushes it to that breaking point. I doubt the Commander will ever fully recover (the commander did die after all) but at least they would be able to resolve these emotions and thoughts to a point.

[Gibson.4036]

15 hours ago, DragoTheWise.7256 said:

I really like the theme that they are setting. Love to get back into some demons/realm of torment.

Irt the Commander, I think they are due to face all the trauma they've had over the years. They haven't had a chance to slow down and really take the time to take care of themselves emotionally and mentally. Just taking care of one thing after another again and again and again. Not slowing down unless the Commander is knocked out from an injury.  The Commander is ripe for manipulation and tbh, I hope we see the Commander break down and just let it all out. I want to hear the buried emotions surface and pour out now that the dragon saga is complete. I want to hear the Commander cry whether that is by themselves or with someone else. I really hoping the demon pushes it to that breaking point. I doubt the Commander will ever fully recover (the commander did die after all) but at least they would be able to resolve these emotions and thoughts to a point.

I very much hope not.

The style and tone of the writing doesn't warrant a breakdown on the part of the commander. Yeah, the plot has had plenty of death along the way, but the story has been pitched heroic for so long, I don't see it bearing the weight of that moment.

Rather than connect me, it would distance me from my characters quite a bit.

I'm all for entertainment that hits me in the heart and gets me blubbering. Some of my favorite movies do to the extent that my kids start giving me the side eye when we watch them.

I just don't think this story is that.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[EdwinLi.1284]

Well the main story is progressing slowly with new records from Gorrik.

The records that are updating overtime until the next Main Story episode for EoD Epilogue is showing how the effects of the Demon affects people.

From what we have learned, the process of the mental attack on a person is not a instant effect but one that builds up by constantly attacking them with the fear, doubts, regrets, and other negative emotions. 

Gorrik is currently experiencing the early stages of the mental attack now, compared to the commander who was already in a later stage of the mental attack by the time this EoD Epilogue begins, and it started out small with just him seeing his brother Blish but it started to escalate overtime to a point he is constantly seeing his regets over and over again with them becoming more distorted each encounter. He was mentally strong at first but the constant attack overtime is having its effects slowly. 

 

This does also explain why the commander is so vulnerable now as well despite facing these mental attacks before by past enemies. The past enemies always attacked the Commander mental with his/her regrets when his/her mind is still strong and it never lasted longer than minutes, or hours, but here the attack is done through a slower process and at a constant rate by days. When these mental attacks happened offscreen the commander may have been strong and knows how to deal with them already since past enemies did this before. However, this time these mental attacks are constant so it is exhausting the commander over time. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by EdwinLi.1284

[Randulf.7614]

Where are these records? There is nothing in game indicating they exist

[EdwinLi.1284]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Where are these records? There is nothing in game indicating they exist

return to the new map, the main quest should update when you enter it and it will mark Gorrik's records location. Currently there is only 5 and the achievement say we will get 10 total. They are added overtime as we get closer to the next update.

The Main Quest will literally require you to go through all the records first so do them now as they update over time or wait until next update if you want.

Edited April 18, 2023 by EdwinLi.1284

[Randulf.7614]

4 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

return to the new map, the main quest should update when you enter it and it will mark Gorrik's records location. Currently there is only 5 and the achievement say we will get 10 total. They are added overtime as we get closer to the next update.

The Main Quest will literally require you to go through all the records first so do them now as they update over time or wait until next update if you want.

OK thank you

[stormemperor.3745]

interesting

[Logos.5603]

On 3/2/2023 at 3:43 PM, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Related to all this: where do folks think the story is going based on what you know right now? (I'm sure there are theories earlier in the thread and I intend to read through it all when I'm on break. Currently in a VO session so I gotta step away from the forums for a bit.)

It's Mister E. They will be this new chapter's main antagonist. Probably not, but that would introduce an amazing twist in the story (though perhaps not related to much of what's going on)

Honesty, I  don't feel like we have much to go on except...well...demons. Though honestly I wouldn't be surprised if corrupted Jade made it outside of the mine...maybe it made its way out as part of a wedding gift to Kasmeer and Marjory!

My more tin foil hat theory is that we will find out about a connection between the Void and the haze (they are somewhat similar). Perhaps the Void allowed Kanaxai to taint some of Tyria's raw magic. That would be pretty bad, as demonic power would be part of the essence(?) of the world.

PS. Thanks for your work.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Logos.5603