[spoiler] Please don't make this an one-off

[Guy.9207]

This episode, as lackluster as it may be, has a lot of potential story-wise. The underlying theme and metaphor of descending into the deep abyss perfectly describes The Commander's mental state and their downward spiral which has been building up more and more throughout the storytelling, *especially* in this episode e.g. the journal and the implications of their struggle between end of the latest xpac and this episode, as well as their reactions during the final fight and how they became increasingly volatile as you progressed.

I'm highly concerned that all of this will be dealt with in a matter of episode or two. This kind of things don't just end in that amount of time, especially when there is so much emphasize not just in here, but also from previous content. Trauma and mental health is also not something you toss to the side like it's just another problem to solve in a matter of days, it takes time to deal and gradually recover, if you ever recover from it. Judging from the reactions and the dialogues, it's also clear that this is not something they have fully dealt with internally, and I hope if it will be dealt with in the future, have it done in a proper pace and not just an one-off episode, please.

Edited March 2, 2023 by NeverLoseGuy.3894

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

A one off?

• The Commander's trauma has been an on-going subplot since August 25th, 2012.
• Zhaitan used the Commander's fear and death of mentor.
• Tower of Nightmare used the Commander's early adventures, fears, mentor deaths, and friendships with DE + Trahearne against them.
• Mordremoth used the dead mentors and friends.
• Shining Blade trials used guilt and trauma.
• The Commander even re-experienced it when recovering their memories after dying to Balthazar.

It's a 11 year long subplot, and I doubt it'll ever be leaving, just like how the horror-based villains are all telepathic entities exploiting people's fears and madnesses. Like Jormag did. Or Mordremoth. Or Zhaitan. Or Kanaxai in GW1. Or Abaddon in GW1.

 

The Commander's Guilt, and Horrors Invoking Nightmares are the two longest running themes of Guild Wars.

[Teletric.3821]

On 3/1/2023 at 3:46 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The Commander's Guilt, and Horrors Invoking Nightmares are the two longest running themes of Guild Wars.

You make a great point and it actually raises my excitement for the next story.

If demons are born and/or sustain themselves off of the negative emotions of Tyrians like Deimos did with Saul, it would make sense why the demon in The Deep would latch onto the Pact Commander specifically as opposed to their other allies.

Perhaps the demon has already had its eye on the Pact Commander for quite some time, and it was playing the long game to eventually lure them to itself after the threat of the Elder Dragons had been dealt with, knowing the pain and suffering they would have endured. There are so many interesting routes they can take with this concept.

[Zola.6197]

Mentioned this in another thread, but it would be neat if this arc tied into Ai and the Sunqua Peak fractal. Perhaps the mountain has also become a demonic hotspot? Or it could be a thread we pursue to learn more about demons, if we learn about it as part of the golden path of the game.

Could be a good tie-in to bring us to Kinya Province/West Shing Jea!

Who are all the named demons in the GWs franchise?

[Urud.4925]

On 3/1/2023 at 9:46 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

A one off?

• [...]

It's a 11 year long subplot, and I doubt it'll ever be leaving, just like how the horror-based villains are all telepathic entities exploiting people's fears and madnesses. Like Jormag did. Or Mordremoth. Or Zhaitan. Or Kanaxai in GW1. Or Abaddon in GW1.

True. This time I felt absolutely nothing when I saw Tybalt. I thought it was a cheap way to play with my emotions. Unfortunately, it didn't land this time.

[Randulf.7614]

2 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

True. This time I felt absolutely nothing when I saw Tybalt. I thought it was a cheap way to play with my emotions. Unfortunately, it didn't land this time.

Same when I saw our vigil mentor. And Eir. All I thought was “not this again”.

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

16 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

True. This time I felt absolutely nothing when I saw Tybalt. I thought it was a cheap way to play with my emotions. Unfortunately, it didn't land this time.

The funny thing is, I think "the Commander" felt the same, since it did not have much of an effect. They even just say something along the lines of "I know what you're trying to do. Not going to work!" Gorrik speculates that you've dealt with that particular trauma enough already. That's why the Demon then switched to more recent events.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

5 hours ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

The funny thing is, I think "the Commander" felt the same, since it did not have much of an effect. They even just say something along the lines of "I know what you're trying to do. Not going to work!" Gorrik speculates that you've dealt with that particular trauma enough already. That's why the Demon then switched to more recent events.

Yeah. The first time it didn't have any real affect but to make them angry. But then Eir and Almorra showed up and they broke down.

It's even brought up with Gorrik, suggesting that the Commander has moved on from the Order mentor's death from 10 years ago. But Eir's death from 7 years ago, and Almorra's from 2 years ago, still hit hard. Probably because they were deaths the Commander tried but couldn't prevent - whereas with Tybalt/Forgal/Sieran and Trahearne, they accepted their death (begrudgingly) at the moment of it.

I hope they bring in Blish's death (or "death" as I'm still convinced he's trapped in his sensory deprivation box alive inside Kranky Kralky), since that one was where the Commander actively abandoned him to die.

[Randulf.7614]

 

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Yeah. The first time it didn't have any real affect but to make them angry. But then Eir and Almorra showed up and they broke down.

It's even brought up with Gorrik, suggesting that the Commander has moved on from the Order mentor's death from 10 years ago. But Eir's death from 7 years ago, and Almorra's from 2 years ago, still hit hard. Probably because they were deaths the Commander tried but couldn't prevent - whereas with Tybalt/Forgal/Sieran and Trahearne, they accepted their death (begrudgingly) at the moment of it.

I hope they bring in Blish's death (or "death" as I'm still convinced he's trapped in his sensory deprivation box alive inside Kranky Kralky), since that one was where the Commander actively abandoned him to die.

Now bringing in Blish to affect Gorrik and tormenting him would have been sooo much better. It’s still an overused trope they’ve gone to the well too many times on, but Blish’s death was probably the rawest (and by a million miles the most emotional npc death they ever wrote) and affecting an npc is still so much more impactful than doing it to us (imo).

[The Greyhawk.9107]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:27 PM, Randulf.7614 said:

 

Now bringing in Blish to affect Gorrik and tormenting him would have been sooo much better. It’s still an overused trope they’ve gone to the well too many times on, but Blish’s death was probably the rawest (and by a million miles the most emotional npc death they ever wrote) and affecting an npc is still so much more impactful than doing it to us (imo).

I agree, having the story show how Gorrik is still dealing with the sorrow and guilt from from the loss of his brother, especially have seeming to have just saved him, is much more appropriate than how the Commander is dealing with Blish's demise. Not everything has to revolve around the Commander, after all.

Edited March 29, 2023 by The Greyhawk.9107

[Guy.9207]

https://i.redd.it/j7gk1jqqztya1.png

anet why

[anninke.7469]

1 hour ago, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

https://i.redd.it/j7gk1jqqztya1.png

anet why

Can't say I like where this seems to be going (and how).

[voltaicbore.8012]

On 3/4/2023 at 7:28 PM, Randulf.7614 said:

Same when I saw our vigil mentor. And Eir. All I thought was “not this again”.

This was also my precise reaction. Its overuse seems quite cheap thus far, but I agree that seeing this same phenomenon play out with Blish/Gorrik might be an interesting take on it.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:45 PM, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

This episode, as lackluster as it may be, has a lot of potential story-wise. The underlying theme and metaphor of descending into the deep abyss perfectly describes The Commander's mental state and their downward spiral which has been building up more and more throughout the storytelling, *especially* in this episode e.g. the journal and the implications of their struggle between end of the latest xpac and this episode, as well as their reactions during the final fight and how they became increasingly volatile as you progressed.

I'm highly concerned that all of this will be dealt with in a matter of episode or two. This kind of things don't just end in that amount of time, especially when there is so much emphasize not just in here, but also from previous content. Trauma and mental health is also not something you toss to the side like it's just another problem to solve in a matter of days, it takes time to deal and gradually recover, if you ever recover from it. Judging from the reactions and the dialogues, it's also clear that this is not something they have fully dealt with internally, and I hope if it will be dealt with in the future, have it done in a proper pace and not just an one-off episode, please.

So, I've not played the gw2 story since Icebrood Saga. I don't care much for gw2 these days, or mmos.

However, I will say that gw2, as with any other series, shows the limitation of the episodic narrative format. Where it's basically: build-up, cliffhanger then one-off. It not only happens on an arc basis, but also on an episode basis. To me, I think this is why people enjoy the expansions more. The story flows beautifully since it is complete. With a series, though it's the typical formula of as I said: build-up, cliffhanger and one-off. So, OP, you are right to be skeptical in how mental health will be treated. I can't say much about EoD-related events, but I am intrigued of the concept of the MC's internal chickens coming home to roost. However, knowing gw2 as well as the game industry's tendency to cheap out on stories to make money, I'm sure they'll blow it at some point. It's just way too popular these days in general media to tease a narrative only to conclude it with a meta-narrative and try to play it off as "clever". (Rick and Morty is notorious for this...)

A great example, to me, of how mental health concepts are explored in a story would be an RPG from 1997 called Final Fantasy 7. I'll say no further than that!

[EdwinLi.1284]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:29 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Yeah. The first time it didn't have any real affect but to make them angry. But then Eir and Almorra showed up and they broke down.

It's even brought up with Gorrik, suggesting that the Commander has moved on from the Order mentor's death from 10 years ago. But Eir's death from 7 years ago, and Almorra's from 2 years ago, still hit hard. Probably because they were deaths the Commander tried but couldn't prevent - whereas with Tybalt/Forgal/Sieran and Trahearne, they accepted their death (begrudgingly) at the moment of it.

I hope they bring in Blish's death (or "death" as I'm still convinced he's trapped in his sensory deprivation box alive inside Kranky Kralky), since that one was where the Commander actively abandoned him to die.

Considering Gorrik is seeing Blish constantly and his visions are getting worse slowly, we may see Blish's death influence in the next part of the story.

the study on these nightmare vision influence so far by Gorrik does seem to slowly intensify the visions more and more but Gorrik is managing through his nightmares of Blish thanks to talks with Taimi. How long this will last is unknown since we know the nightmare visions get worse over time.

Edited May 10, 2023 by EdwinLi.1284

[Serephen.3420]

On 3/29/2023 at 3:17 PM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I agree, having the story show how Gorrik is still dealing with the sorrow and guilt from from the loss of his brother, especially have seeming to have just saved him, is much more appropriate than how the Commander is dealing with Blish's demise. Not everything has to revolve around the Commander, after all.

Well if you check the latest logs Gortik has a vision of Blish and it's quite something. 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

On 5/10/2023 at 11:34 PM, Serephen.3420 said:

Well if you check the latest logs Gortik has a vision of Blish and it's quite something. 

"In the business, we call this 'foreshadowing'".