Druid In Fractals

[Jurij.4625]

Hello,

 

I was looking for druid builds for instanced content on various  gw2-builds pages, and I noticed that Druid builds are only used in Raids and not in Fractals. Can more experienced players explain why is that? 

 

Is for Fractals better to play just dps build and no need for healer? 

Besides Condi Ranger that I play now, I want to make also Power build and a Druid, so I was just wondering how would Druid work in Fractals.

 

Kind regards,

J.

[Beddo.1907]

Fractals prefer supports that have damage, so you heal just enough to sustain the team while doing damage and keeping up boons.

Druid just doesn't do damage and has more healing than needed. Also your alacrity needs more work than others since spirits are... yeah... Rough number example:

Your team takes 5k damage every 10s, you can pick X support that heals 5k and does 20k dps or Druid that does 10k healing and 7k dps. Which one sounds better? 

TL;DR Bad healing and dps ratio, annoying boon application.

[Jurij.4625]

What about Druid build with more condi gear and less heal gear? Could that work for Fractals or is just not worth the try? Maybe plaguedoctor or something like that?

[Beddo.1907]

4 minutes ago, Jurij.4625 said:

What about Druid build with more condi gear and less heal gear? Could that work for Fractals or is just not worth the try? Maybe plaguedoctor or something like that?

You need to play 2 support trait lines for druid to do the job. One for Druid espec and one for Nature magic so you can use spirits trait. So ultimately you are left with one trait line slot for condi.

Edit: also spirits take all skill slots

Edited March 2 by Beddo.1907

[Zyreva.1078]

Druid isn't optimal for fractals but it is perfectly viable. Most pugs don't care what class you bring as long it fits the role you are supposed to fill - for druid that would be alac heal. I'd also recommend going for cele instead of full heal (unless you want to raid too, then use whatever you'd use for raiding if you can't afford multiple sets/legendary gear yet).

While the dmg of druid is rather low even on cele gear and spirits don't shine in factals either, druid can actually bring a lot of useful utility if you are willing to adapt to the given situation. For example you can use healing spring instad of water spirit if additional cleanses are needed. Turtle and offhand axe can offer additional projectile denial. Even stab and aegis are part of it's arsenal and it's great at dealing with breakbars.

 

 

Edited March 2 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Jurij.4625]

1 hour ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Druid isn't optimal for fractals but it is perfectly viable. Most pugs don't care what class you bring as long it fits the role you are supposed to fill - for druid that would be alac heal. I'd also recommend going for cele instead of full heal (unless you want to raid too, then use whatever you'd use for raiding if you can't afford multiple sets/legendary gear yet).

While the dmg of druid is rather low even on cele gear and spirits don't shine in factals either, druid can actually bring a lot of useful utility if you are willing to adapt to the given situation. For example you can use healing spring instad of water spirit if additional cleanses are needed. Turtle and offhand axe can offer additional projectile denial. Even stab and aegis are part of it's arsenal and it's great at dealing with breakbars.

 

 

I don't know if I will ever play any Raids. But I would definitely use the same druid also for open world support and for WvW.

Would in that case Celestial be better, for cross game mode use? I saw that for WvW the suggested stats are Trailblazer. I guess Celestial is also viable?

[Zyreva.1078]

40 minutes ago, Jurij.4625 said:

Would in that case Celestial be better, for cross game mode use?

Definitely.

[Incurve Giidis.7829]

i think your spirits die to flux bomb and other random kitten and it just feels extra bad now that alacrity is tied to your spirits.

also dragging them along, despawning and respawning them, is annoying

 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

44 minutes ago, Incurve Giidis.7829 said:

i think your spirits die to flux bomb and other random kitten and it just feels extra bad now that alacrity is tied to your spirits.

also dragging them along, despawning and respawning them, is annoying

 

This is mainly it.

 

Full healers in fractals aren't inherently bad.

[Moradorin.6217]

6 hours ago, Jurij.4625 said:

Hello,

 

I was looking for druid builds for instanced content on various  gw2-builds pages, and I noticed that Druid builds are only used in Raids and not in Fractals. Can more experienced players explain why is that? 

 

Is for Fractals better to play just dps build and no need for healer? 

Besides Condi Ranger that I play now, I want to make also Power build and a Druid, so I was just wondering how would Druid work in Fractals.

 

Kind regards,

J.

No wong anser I guess LOL. Many reasons that Druid and ranger in general is not ideal for dungeons mostly.  In the early days of gw2 ranger was not a good class for dungeons because allot of its damage output depends on pets and pet pathing issues, pets getting killed by environmental effects and pets lacking agony resist all made ranger a bad option for dungeons and fractals.

 

Fast forward many years -> they made druid as support. Its presently depenent upon moving spirits around to maintain alac and boons. That is not very handy or good when moving quickly to clear and when the boss and stack moves around allot like in fractals and dungeons. Raids on the other hand are mostly stationary with very specifically timed movements and very little trash mod clearing.

 

Soulbeast was imo kinda made to give ranger a good class that can avoid the pet pathing issues and without alac/boon support spirits are optional.

 

Those are imo the big reasons more people dont use. 

 

That said, it would be workable if you are so inclined and have a party willing to work with you but I would think most pugs wouldnt wana try dealing with that vs just use a mech or fb.

[Vidit.7108]

A healer alacrity druid in pug T4 fractals is fine. A group looking for a healer doesn't care what it's dps is. Druid is not the preferred alacrity healer of most CM groups, that said in a pug situation they also might not care if you heal well.

It's somewhat rare to see a druid over HAM because barrier healing is greatly preferred overall, since druid has been out of the fractal meta for a long time there aren't a ton of people that heal really well with it. But I've seen it heal just as well in a daily as healbrand or HAM though, as long as you know what you're doing no one will notice a difference.

If you and your buddies are making the best CM group ever then it becomes more of a contest. The EU players might care more but I would be surprised if a group on NA looking for heal alac has a problem with a druid.

[Moradorin.6217]

10 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Druid isn't optimal for fractals but it is perfectly viable. Most pugs don't care what class you bring as long it fits the role you are supposed to fill - for druid that would be alac heal. I'd also recommend going for cele instead of full heal (unless you want to raid too, then use whatever you'd use for raiding if you can't afford multiple sets/legendary gear yet).

While the dmg of druid is rather low even on cele gear and spirits don't shine in factals either, druid can actually bring a lot of useful utility if you are willing to adapt to the given situation. For example you can use healing spring instad of water spirit if additional cleanses are needed. Turtle and offhand axe can offer additional projectile denial. Even stab and aegis are part of it's arsenal and it's great at dealing with breakbars.

 

 

 Im inclined to want to agree but I dont feel druid is very practical compared to the others for providing alac due to spirit management vs no spirit management for other heal support. Also lack or aegis like fb has or barrier like others offer. Also healing spring can hardly be used or can only be used at the cost of things like the revive shout because Druid needs minimum 3 spirits up and being constantly refreshed on party to maintain alac and other boons on party. They also need to keep moving the spirits to the location of heals or the spirits will get killed. Also the spirits will still die to many boss attacks which will cause a loss of protection, alac, etc untill they are off cooldown and can be recast and refreshed. That's why I said basically it can work but its not good or anything people should delude themselves into trying to make work for general pug life cause it would be setting them up for punishment.

 

 Now if someone knows its not ideal and that not everyone will like it and it will have drawbacks, but they just love ranger or druid and wana do it anyway I say go for it and I would be accepting in my pug cause Im not generally picky. That said, I would personally not want to punish myself like that.

 

I kinda wish druid's alac was just not tied to the spirits cause Druid could be really good for dungeons and fractals otherwise. For instamce a Glyph build druid would be very mobile, utility like solid revives, stun/group stunbreak, etc etc and be more mobile, but then it cannot maintain alac and other boons cause its totally depenent upon spirits.

 

IMO I kinda think spirits should be changed to not give alac or spirits should be made a druid thing since no other class can rly make use as it stands and a soulbeast alac support would suck to play even if it was doable.

Edited March 2 by Moradorin.6217

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

 Im inclined to want to agree but I dont feel druid is very practical compared to the others for providing alac due to spirit management vs no spirit management for other heal support.

Spirits can be clunky for sure and there are a few mechanics that kill them and i'm not a fan of them either, but most of the time they stay alive during fights. It's mostly the "in between" where they suck (but then again, many players don't bother providing any boons while moving to the next encounter anyway, so it's whatever. At least druid can provide swiftness).

Overall it gets the job done just fine and i never had anyone complain or ask to swap class when i showed up on druid for casual t4 dailies. So if someone wants to play it and isn't looking for tryhard speedruns i don't see a reason to not go for it.

2 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Also lack or aegis like fb has

White tiger can provide aegis.

Edited March 3 by Zyreva.1078

[Jurij.4625]

Has anyone tried more bleed/traps focused Druid or Druid with glyphs instead of spirits for Fractals?

I know that you loose alacrity and some boons, but maybe you can focus more on condi damage and bleeding with some healing instead of just no damage and full healing with boons. This is just a thought, I never tried that in Fractals, just in WvW where such build exist.

 

Anyway, thanks for all the replies. I will definitely experiment and gradually build my Druid, but I want it just for fun. I will stick with my other builds for more serious gameplay 😁

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Jurij.4625 said:

I know that you loose alacrity and some boons,

...  and therefore you lose the main reason to bring a druid. The dmg gain would be too small, dps druid is simply not a thing and healers are generally expected to bring either quickness or alacrity so you don't need to run 3 supports.

If not much healing/support is required you can drop staff and run 2 (condi) dps weapon sets, use sharpening stone in your one "free" utility slot, use ancient seeds and offensive runes and sigils, but that's the only "dps" adjustments i'd go for aside from slotting cele gear. Keep nature magic and spirits, anet unfortunately made sure those are a must now for any support ranger. Generally players don't care much about your dmg as druid, as long you keep them alive and provide alac and some other boons. And if you aren't camping staff 24/7 with full minstrel you will already deal at least twice as much dmg as the average druid out there anyway.

Edited March 3 by Zyreva.1078

[Strider.7849]

On 3/2/2023 at 1:08 AM, Beddo.1907 said:

Fractals prefer supports that have damage, so you heal just enough to sustain the team while doing damage and keeping up boons.

Druid just doesn't do damage and has more healing than needed. Also your alacrity needs more work than others since spirits are... yeah... Rough number example:

Your team takes 5k damage every 10s, you can pick X support that heals 5k and does 20k dps or Druid that does 10k healing and 7k dps. Which one sounds better? 

TL;DR Bad healing and dps ratio, annoying boon application.

Fractals prefer supports that bring stability, blocks, and reflects - being able to group trash mobs also helps a lot as well. Druid is very limited on this or can't do some of the above at all. You could run a condi/heal druid for example that brings some dps and the group would generally speaking have a slower clear speed than if you brought a full minstrel firebrand, simply because your DPS doesn't have to stop dpsing to survive as often.

 

I know some people will argue that white tiger brings aegis, the druid can reflect with offhand axe or projectile destroy through staff.. or you can give stability from glyph while in celestial avatar. The problem is it can't always do all this at once, nor can it do it frequently.. sometimes not even being able to do it when you need it because you burned your CA juice to heal or stack might. Managing spirits can be another hassle ontop: ran out of range or your spirit randomly dies, your whole group gets lowered effectiveness.

 

Druid is a viable healer for sure, but it folds under pressure, especially in circumstances where your group may not be highly experienced.

[Zyreva.1078]

35 minutes ago, Strider.7849 said:

Druid is a viable healer for sure, but it folds under pressure, especially in circumstances where your group may not be highly experienced.

I'd actually say the opposite - fb shines in experienced grp and low pressure situations, where everyone stacks nicely and you only have to block once in a while to keep ppl alive and everyone knows how to capitalize on that. But druid has better healing - even at range - as well as rez capabilities, so if things go bad it can carry. It might be harder to make use of druid's full potential tho, due to having to manage so many different things simultaneously (pets, spirits, ca, ...), which is probably why players might struggle more.

[Moradorin.6217]

3 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

I'd actually say the opposite - fb shines in experienced grp and low pressure situations, where everyone stacks nicely and you only have to block once in a while to keep ppl alive and everyone knows how to capitalize on that. But druid has better healing - even at range - as well as rez capabilities, so if things go bad it can carry. It might be harder to make use of druid's full potential tho, due to having to manage so many different things simultaneously (pets, spirits, ca, ...), which is probably why players might struggle more.

I agree it could be solid if people are willing to work with it. I love the newelite glyph changes and its revive capability and the way its not a spirit I have to drag around. For me its more that in the past when I have run things like that ppl get used to the meta and often dont totally understand what you can bring and dont recognize or appreciate what is being done. That can be ok, but then on a bad run u get that guy who wants to blame the druid cause its not meta and nothing else matters. Working my kitten off to be underappreciated and occationally trolled got old for me so I just run meta or I skip pugs. That said, I agree its workable if ppl are willing to be chill.

[Infusion.7149]

Druids are not really great in fractals because the boon application is from spirits which are destructible and your boon application is hampered by spirit skill cooldowns while in motion. This is a similar setback as specter except specter provides barrier which is stronger than healing in fractals due to how agony works. Top it off with peak DPS in DPS setups along the lines of 13K and it makes it far worse than even cele firebrand, renegade, tempest, or mech...

Druid is generally far better in raids and strikes in comparison, it only was overtaken by mechanist.

[Jurij.4625]

Hi,

I didn't know if I should open a new topic for this, but I have another question regarding Druid, or more precisely Celestial gear.

 

So, I have acquired celestial gear set and I would ask for some suggestions on which runes to pick.

 

This gear will be used for my Druid build, which will be played in open world, low tier fractals and WvW, so I need kind of runes that would work ok in all of those game modes. I'm not looking for min/max build, just for something fun.

 

I was thinking about trapper runes for wvw trapper build, but maybe I should choose something with healing power and boon duration? Although this stats would probably be wasted in open world and wvw?  Maybe Traveler runes for some extra multi stats and boon duration? I want to be flexible for all the three game modes, but again, this is for more casual, low tier play.

 

Thank you for any suggestions.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

47 minutes ago, Jurij.4625 said:

Hi,

I didn't know if I should open a new topic for this, but I have another question regarding Druid, or more precisely Celestial gear.

 

So, I have acquired celestial gear set and I would ask for some suggestions on which runes to pick.

 

This gear will be used for my Druid build, which will be played in open world, low tier fractals and WvW, so I need kind of runes that would work ok in all of those game modes. I'm not looking for min/max build, just for something fun.

 

I was thinking about trapper runes for wvw trapper build, but maybe I should choose something with healing power and boon duration? Although this stats would probably be wasted in open world and wvw?  Maybe Traveler runes for some extra multi stats and boon duration? I want to be flexible for all the three game modes, but again, this is for more casual, low tier play.

 

Thank you for any suggestions.

Traveler's runes for general-purpose Celestial builds, Leadership for boons, and Tempest for conditions. I wouldn't bother with stuff like Trapper runes as they've been gutted in PvP settings.

 

For groups run Pack runes and mix in some Diviner's trinkets  for 100% boon duration along with axe/warhorn/staff, a few spirits and the related traits for permanent 25 Might, Fury, Swiftness, Protection, Regeneration, Vigor and Alacrity along with Jungle Stalker and White Tiger maybe.  For solo play drop the spirits in favor of commands  as they're too static for roaming the open-world in PvE.

 

Druid healing is already high enough due to Celestial Avatar to not need any healing modifiers on their gear, so this works well in all content including Fractals up to T3.

 

Druid isn't used in WvW except for roaming, since all the support skills are too static.

Edited March 6 by SoftFootpaws.9134