for the love of god get rid of unranked and make ranked solo queue only.

[Eddie.9143]

can make this game better so easily and ya just don't do it. i don't get it

[Bazsi.2734]

So trolls can make a F2P account and use very legal third party software to spice up our matches right away? No thank you.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Your heart is in the right place, but we don't need to remove Unranked.

Mind you DuoQ is only in here because the top players whined about "not being able to play with friends."

Otherwise it would have stayed gone when they removed in Season 9 because DuoQ is busted, broken, and largely unwanted.
 

If we allow history to repeat itself, it will inevitably lead to disappointment and unfilled promise. We must make our argument bullkitten-proof so that the top players who abuse DuoQ don't have any lies with which to tear down SoloQ a second time, while remaining suspect of those lies and of the emotional manipulation propagated by top players who would stop at nothing to make sure that a solos mode never exists in sPvP.

[Thaddeus The Blade.6472]

21 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Mind you DuoQ is only in here because the top players whined about "not being able to play with friends."

How convenient! Because people with more than 2 friends certainly don't exist! Now, I'm not SAYING that 5v5 would be a good way to play with friends, I'm just saying that's where we're at, folks...

By god...! From the way they tell it, you'd think that they only want a competitive advantage instead! Silly me. No, 'top players' are always trustworthy no matter what! We should always listen to what they say! **

(** Sarcasm for those dense enough to believe this.)

[jdawgie.1835]

22 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Otherwise it would have stayed gone when they removed in Season 9 because DuoQ is busted, broken, and largely unwanted.

Duo que is unwanted but not for the reasons of making this game solo que only. 5 Man ques need to return, and solo players should return to hotjoin, and reward systems should be reverted to reward those players.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

29 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Duo que is unwanted but not for the reasons of making this game solo que only. 5 Man ques need to return, and solo players should return to hotjoin, and reward systems should be reverted to reward those players.

What SoloQ players want is a SoloQ ranked arena similar to Seasons 9-12 for a competitive setting that highlights individual skill and provides equality of opportunity within that competitive setting.

Anything less or more than that, especially when being propagated by those who don't SoloQ is hard not to view as cynical and redundant.

If a SoloQ Ranked arena existed separated to this 5-man teamQ that you want, that would be more or less what they want, and neither side would even interact with another if the queues were split. Both would be satisfied without the need for condition.

But to try and say "no, you will play hotjoins and we will have 5-man ranked arenas" I think is terribly inconsistent and a double-standard. Don't expect us to be thrilled with that solution.

39 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

How convenient! Because people with more than 2 friends certainly don't exist! Now, I'm not SAYING that 5v5 would be a good way to play with friends, I'm just saying that's where we're at, folks...

By god...! From the way they tell it, you'd think that they only want a competitive advantage instead! Silly me. No, 'top players' are always trustworthy no matter what! We should always listen to what they say! **

(** Sarcasm for those dense enough to believe this.)

🙋‍♂️me I believe it

I also like Marvel, Fortnite, wearing my baseball cap slightly to the side, 🥦, and American football.

I'm on my 5th booster 💉and I'm finna take a nap in my state-appointed pod.

[jdawgie.1835]

I appreciate that you put time into your response, and that you shared a point of view that I can actually discuss with you.

 

So from what you shared I have genuine questions for you if you dont mind sharing your thoughts further?

6 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

What SoloQ players want is a SoloQ ranked arena similar to Seasons 9-12 for a competitive setting that highlights individual skill and provides equality of opportunity within that competitive setting.

How does Soloq in a team game reflect any1s skill? Its a game mode for teams, once youve elimnated teams, the entire system is redundant from where I am sitting.

 

7 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

But to try and say "no, you will play hotjoins and we will have 5-man ranked arenas" I think is terribly inconsistent and a double-standard. Don't expect us to be thrilled with that solution.

I appreciate that this is true. Hotjoin is amazing for learning, especially when we had a full community. 

 

How do you feel about my suggestion here?

50 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

should return to hotjoin, and reward systems should be reverted to reward those players

Ill share my thoughts on this quote further, but want to give you the chance to elaborate yourself. 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

10 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

I appreciate that you put time into your response, and that you shared a point of view that I can actually discuss with you.

 

So from what you shared I have genuine questions for you if you dont mind sharing your thoughts further?

I am happy to partake in discussion until our corporate masters inevitably step in to silence me on behalf of the wintrading cartel, but until that happens, you have my near-full attention.

10 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

How does Soloq in a team game reflect any1s skill? Its a game mode for teams, once youve elimnated teams, the entire system is redundant from where I am sitting.

Because if a SoloQ player can be matched against other SoloQ players playing at all the same disadvantages that come with being a singular person, then to succeed in that setting is indicative of nothing less than raw talent. It would inherently mean more than succeeding in Solo/DuoQ, which is not a fair or competitively viable matchmaking system since people do not play the same game in that formula.

I think it's a bit unfair to write that off as "redundant" considering that former PvP developer @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: "92% someone queues are queuing solo" 

92% of games played is nothing to scoff at or write off as redundant. The necessity for a separate solos-only Ranked comes from the population primarily, fairness second, and convenience last. When you've gone 5 years without these things, you really grow to miss them, especially when most modern games offer some type of solos mode or solo arena.

It would also serve to somewhat replace the persistent lack of PvP content/updates because the SoloQ ranked experience will always be infinitely different to the Teamed ranked experience, and split queues would provide people with the express option of choice between these two different arenas and ranked ladders without deluding people into thinking a SoloQ player can and should be able to compete against 2 or more grouped people, or that an ability to form teams accounts for any degree of mechanical skill or game knowledge whatsoever, but it is a neat way for people to comment in snide and to insult people on their social skills and status in way that avoids the censors. Those things we worry about as Guild Wars gamers 😂

10 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

 

I appreciate that this is true. Hotjoin is amazing for learning, especially when we had a full community. 

 

How do you feel about my suggestion here?

Ill share my thoughts on this quote further, but want to give you the chance to elaborate yourself. 

I don't share the same enthusiasm towards Hotjoins. I thought they were an archaic form of matchmaking that might have been a better unranked experience maybe, but there was nothing about Hotjoins even remotely close to competitive to ever begin to satisfy any Ranked playerbase.

Now it could be argued that Hotjoins were a much better casual experience than Unranked is, and that I could see and maybe even agree with, but to call Hotjoins a replacement for a competitive soloQ arena just sounds a bit unempathetic.

The reasonable, human thing to do would be to pay it no mind, since a separate solos arena designed by and for the people who want such a thing would not affect anyone who didn't whatsoever, unless those opposed were specifically upset about losing the advantage they have over solos, since they still absolutely could play with friends in split queues. That's friends too, and not "friend."

[jdawgie.1835]

15 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I am happy to partake in discussion until our corporate masters inevitably step in to silence me on behalf of the wintrading cartel, but until that happens, you have my near-full attention.

Right on bro. Okay well here goes. 

 

15 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Because if a SoloQ player can be matched against other SoloQ players playing at all the same disadvantages that come with being a singular person, then to succeed in that setting is indicative of nothing less than raw talent. It would inherently mean more than succeeding in Solo/DuoQ, which is not a fair or competitively viable matchmaking system since people do not play the same game in that formula.

I see the validity here. So here's my thoughts then but it requires we agree on hidden MMR which not every1 does. From my side - Solo que is still dependent on what your teammates do and I am subject to loose matches based on people having not a clue of basic rotations or map awareness. As a solo player unless I decay into bronze or something where I can just farm everything I run into I don't hold enough weight to sway the match and there my "individual Rating" really isnt mine. 

 

22 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I don't share the same enthusiasm towards Hotjoins. I thought they were an archaic form of matchmaking that might have been a better unranked experience maybe, but there was nothing about Hotjoins even remotely close to competitive to ever begin to satisfy any Ranked playerbase.

Now it could be argued that Hotjoins were a much better casual experience than Unranked i

 

22 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Now it could be argued that Hotjoins were a much better casual experience than Unranked

This is my view point. Remove unranked - return Hot Joins for "care free style of play" and give ranked 2v2 and 3v3 as persistent game modes for Team Death Match, and either give 5 man ques two separate ques or make 5 man solo only. 

 

If population is the concern 2v2 and 3v3 for premades, and 5v5 for solo remove unraked. This way you have 3 ques and every1 has something they want. I think overtime if this had been done much sooner people would pvp more and the population would increase. Unranked and Ranked are the same thing I have never understood why thats a good thing. We should also try to add Battle Ground style of play too. 10v10 and such. 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

1 hour ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Right on bro. Okay well here goes. 

 

I see the validity here. So here's my thoughts then but it requires we agree on hidden MMR which not every1 does. From my side - Solo que is still dependent on what your teammates do and I am subject to loose matches based on people having not a clue of basic rotations or map awareness. As a solo player unless I decay into bronze or something where I can just farm everything I run into I don't hold enough weight to sway the match and there my "individual Rating" really isnt mine. 

It's perfectly fine to think that way, but it cannot be said that having the potential of running into a DuoQ as a SoloQ doesn't contribute to those feelings.

It is after all, just another dice roll to deal with for anyone queuing solo, as not only do they have to worry about their own random teammates, but they have to also be ready to deal with the possibility have having a coordinated team on the enemy team working in tandem against their randomly formed team.

SoloQ is not perfect, this is true. It is objectively much better than Solo/DuoQ though.

1 hour ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

This is my view point. Remove unranked - return Hot Joins for "care free style of play" and give ranked 2v2 and 3v3 as persistent game modes for Team Death Match, and either give 5 man ques two separate ques or make 5 man solo only. 

I think our goals are aligned, but understand that after years of dealing with the most deluded rationalizations imaginable, I need to now speak like even more of a robot to hammer in what I'm asking for:
Add a soloq-only mode. It can be separate from a gamemode with teams. Just add one. Nothing more, nothing less.

1 hour ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

If population is the concern 2v2 and 3v3 for premades, and 5v5 for solo remove unraked. This way you have 3 ques and every1 has something they want. I think overtime if this had been done much sooner people would pvp more and the population would increase. Unranked and Ranked are the same thing I have never understood why thats a good thing. We should also try to add Battle Ground style of play too. 10v10 and such. 

I cannot really speak to the removal of Unranked as this is not something I am very concerned with. I think it's actually disconnected from the original argument of "remove duoQ" entirely, and any suggestion that the need for fair, skill-based matchmaking in at least 1 Ranked gamemode is at all correlated to the removal of Unranked is downright calumny imo, and that's more or less why I commented originally.

The wintrading cartel will go to any extent to win and that often includes the use of strawman arguments to serve as a distraction and butchery of what was originally intended, but separating the lies from genuine radical thought is difficult when one considers how unfair the entire situation is and the typical human (especially guild wars gamer human) reaction to injustice.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Multicolorhipster.9751

[jdawgie.1835]

1 hour ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

It's perfectly fine to think that way, but it cannot be said that having the potential of running into a DuoQ as a SoloQ doesn't contribute to those feelings.

It is after all, just another dice roll to deal with for anyone queuing solo, as not only do they have to worry about their own random teammates, but they have to also be ready to deal with the possibility have having a coordinated team on the enemy team working in tandem against their randomly formed team.

SoloQ is not perfect, this is true. It is objectively much better than Solo/DuoQ though.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I think our goals are aligned,

Yeah I think so. 

1 hour ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Add a soloq-only mode

This should be done and probably should of been done a long time ago. As someone who prefers team, pug games are not what I look forward to. However the issue you brought up of:

1 hour ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

The wintrading cartel

This is developer ambivalence. They allow a select few players to ruin the game at large for the majority, and they allow their own game to be turned into a profitable minigame for shut ins. Ill never understand that. 

[Disney.7826]

Unranked players better stay there

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

32 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

This is developer ambivalence. They allow a select few players to ruin the game at large for the majority, and they allow their own game to be turned into a profitable minigame for shut ins. Ill never understand that. 

No matter where or who you go to in this community, this seems to be a uniting vision that we've all entered into voluntarily. It is in essence; our belief, our faith, those holy tools we have to combat them and burn away the sin of the wintrading cartel.

You're not wrong. Arenanet supports them. They partner with them, they promote them, they provide them with impunity, in some rare cases; they even hire them, and this has all been going on for years.
I ask you, forums, what do we have to defend ourselves with? Nothing. We have nothing. But those with nothing can still have faith. 🙏

Faith that we as a collective can be better as a whole, in every meaning of the word better, and certainty in knowing that regardless of what happens, we are winning.

In the end; having spent upwards of $1k on gw2 pvp titles, the wintrader is damned, and the victory of the faithful is chiseled in stone. The wintrader shall reap as he sown — the bitter harvest of vengeance and gaslighting! 🔥🙏

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 3/5/2023 at 8:45 AM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Your heart is in the right place, but we don't need to remove Unranked.

 

 

Preach!

[StefanB.4928]

I agree. with OP. 

The issue of this game is matchmaking related. Not having enough players to form a good matchup. 

Numerous times i played 1 unrated followed by a rated game. In the unrated game i often saw quite some better players than in the rated one. Even tho the rated game had 2 or more top 20 players.  Teams typically look a bit like this:

2 x 1700+ and 3 x gold players.

3 x 1600-1700 and 2 x gold players. 

So you have 5 x gold players in a rated matchup....while your see quite a few plat players playing unranked. Easily enough to fill the spots the gold players take. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by StefanB.4928

[aerouant.7408]

11 hours ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Right on bro. Okay well here goes. 

 

I see the validity here. So here's my thoughts then but it requires we agree on hidden MMR which not every1 does. From my side - Solo que is still dependent on what your teammates do and I am subject to loose matches based on people having not a clue of basic rotations or map awareness. As a solo player unless I decay into bronze or something where I can just farm everything I run into I don't hold enough weight to sway the match and there my "individual Rating" really isnt mine. 

 

 

This is my view point. Remove unranked - return Hot Joins for "care free style of play" and give ranked 2v2 and 3v3 as persistent game modes for Team Death Match, and either give 5 man ques two separate ques or make 5 man solo only. 

 

If population is the concern 2v2 and 3v3 for premades, and 5v5 for solo remove unraked. This way you have 3 ques and every1 has something they want. I think overtime if this had been done much sooner people would pvp more and the population would increase. Unranked and Ranked are the same thing I have never understood why thats a good thing. We should also try to add Battle Ground style of play too. 10v10 and such. 

„In bronze where i can farm everything“ - sorry, but due to the size of the playerbase, bronze get matched with and against plats. So even when you drop to bronze, you get stomped by players beyond your mmr. 

And thats the biggest problem after duo q, it hinders utterly needed learn processses and prevents climbing, as your impact as a improving player  could be negated by probabilistic dynamics.

Here an extreme and simplified example of what i mean: 

imagine two teams if the following mmr composition: 1 bronze, 2 silver, 1 gold, 1 plat.
 

Assumption 1: the bronze player of team 1 is actually skilled like a silver player. 

Assumption 2 : individual skillbased impact is more prevalent in 1 vs 1 situations as in team fights. (Good and recent example, the thread:

Scenario:

Bronze of team 1 heads for far, to cap it. 

In a healthy populated playerbase scenario the contester of the far node,  of team 2 would be on bronze mmr (as all players of both teams would be).  So the improving bronze player of team 1 would have good chances to clear the node and cap it, as the player plays like silver.

With our current playebase scenario there only would be one contestant (team 2‘s bronze) which could be easily defeated and thus the node be capped. 
 

Verdict: imo, due to simple chances, carrying and thus climbing as a solo player is insanely hard. 
 

Remember this is an extreme and tailored example where some players might have had an impact, but i think we all experienced situations like this in spvp.

Edited March 6, 2023 by asket.5674

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:45 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Your heart is in the right place, but we don't need to remove Unranked.

Mind you DuoQ is only in here because the top players whined about "not being able to play with friends."

Otherwise it would have stayed gone when they removed in Season 9 because DuoQ is busted, broken, and largely unwanted.
 

If we allow history to repeat itself, it will inevitably lead to disappointment and unfilled promise. We must make our argument bullkitten-proof so that the top players who abuse DuoQ don't have any lies with which to tear down SoloQ a second time, while remaining suspect of those lies and of the emotional manipulation propagated by top players who would stop at nothing to make sure that a solos mode never exists in sPvP.

 

People should be allowed to play with friends, but not in modes that claim to reward individual skill or in a way that can be exploited to trivialize matches through dodging players that do the same. 

This could be done with

A full solo mode  (Anything above 3v3)

An unranked mode (you can play with friends here)

A duos mode ( 4v4, two duos each)

AT (If you need to train for this use hotjoin or unranked)

mini seasons for 2v2 and 3v3 should allow duos but reward solo play more for wins against premades. 

If people bristle at splitting the queues because duo q only sections would die off immediately, I think that's kind of the point of the complaints, because duo q largely don't want to fight people that are as eager to premake as them for ladder, and they absolutely should be doing that.

This is real messy and needs to be tested with metrics to see what people actually do when presented with options resembling the above. If we would gain exponentially more soloers than we lose duo q players through changes like that, it would be worth imo.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[aerouant.7408]

I actually think they should do a mini season with solo q only to gather data for metrics, nothing would be lost if people would hate it. I mean it can’t be worse than 3v3 mini season, i know of a lot people which just skip that season because its an utter trash mode.

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

People should be allowed to play with friends, but not in modes that claim to reward individual skill or in a way that can be exploited to trivialize matches through dodging players that do the same. 

This could be done with

A full solo mode  (Anything above 3v3)

An unranked mode (you can play with friends here)

A duos mode ( 4v4, two duos each)

AT (If you need to train for this use hotjoin or unranked)

mini seasons for 2v2 and 3v3 should allow duos but reward solo play more for wins against premades. 

If people bristle at splitting the queues because duo q only sections would die off immediately, I think that's kind of the point of the complaints, because duo q largely don't want to fight people that are as eager to premake as them for ladder, and they absolutely should be doing that.

This is real messy and needs to be tested with metrics to see what people actually do when presented with options resembling the above. If we would gain exponentially more soloers than we lose duo q players through changes like that, it would be worth imo.

 

 

[Khalisto.5780]

On 3/2/2023 at 8:43 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

So trolls can make a F2P account and use very legal third party software to spice up our matches right away? No thank you.

What is stoping them now?

[Hotride.2187]

If unranked is removed in favor of ranked I'm not going to start playing differently. I'll still play what I like and go where I feel like going on the map. If some p2+ player is moaning they'll lose the match because of it... too bad unranked got removed, I'll have nowhere else to be.

And I'm pretty sure I wont be alone, considering all the other players I regularly see also on their crappy builds.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[Bazsi.2734]

3 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

What is stoping them now?

Rank 20.

[Khalisto.5780]

I'd say move all stuff legendary related to unranked (rewards and achievments), so the pve players can farm those stuff with their friends. Then make leaderboards solo q only. So ppl that really want to play with their friends can do so. 

[Khalisto.5780]

6 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Rank 20.

They could just do what they did to wvw, require level 60 or something.

[Thaddeus The Blade.6472]

20 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I am happy to partake in discussion until our corporate masters inevitably step in to silence me on behalf of the wintrading cartel, but until that happens, you have my near-full attention.

Because if a SoloQ player can be matched against other SoloQ players playing at all the same disadvantages that come with being a singular person, then to succeed in that setting is indicative of nothing less than raw talent. It would inherently mean more than succeeding in Solo/DuoQ, which is not a fair or competitively viable matchmaking system since people do not play the same game in that formula.

I think it's a bit unfair to write that off as "redundant" considering that former PvP developer @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: "92% someone queues are queuing solo" 

92% of games played is nothing to scoff at or write off as redundant. The necessity for a separate solos-only Ranked comes from the population primarily, fairness second, and convenience last. When you've gone 5 years without these things, you really grow to miss them, especially when most modern games offer some type of solos mode or solo arena.

It would also serve to somewhat replace the persistent lack of PvP content/updates because the SoloQ ranked experience will always be infinitely different to the Teamed ranked experience, and split queues would provide people with the express option of choice between these two different arenas and ranked ladders without deluding people into thinking a SoloQ player can and should be able to compete against 2 or more grouped people, or that an ability to form teams accounts for any degree of mechanical skill or game knowledge whatsoever, but it is a neat way for people to comment in snide and to insult people on their social skills and status in way that avoids the censors. Those things we worry about as Guild Wars gamers 😂

I don't share the same enthusiasm towards Hotjoins. I thought they were an archaic form of matchmaking that might have been a better unranked experience maybe, but there was nothing about Hotjoins even remotely close to competitive to ever begin to satisfy any Ranked playerbase.

Now it could be argued that Hotjoins were a much better casual experience than Unranked is, and that I could see and maybe even agree with, but to call Hotjoins a replacement for a competitive soloQ arena just sounds a bit unempathetic.

The reasonable, human thing to do would be to pay it no mind, since a separate solos arena designed by and for the people who want such a thing would not affect anyone who didn't whatsoever, unless those opposed were specifically upset about losing the advantage they have over solos, since they still absolutely could play with friends in split queues. That's friends too, and not "friend."

Hotjoin was great until the GENIUS idea of letting players switch teams in the middle of the match! If that never happened, hotjoin would be full of activity to this day. Unranked, most likely, would've NEVER been invented.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

40 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Hotjoin was great until the GENIUS idea of letting players switch teams in the middle of the match! If that never happened, hotjoin would be full of activity to this day. Unranked, most likely, would've NEVER been invented.

i miss hotjoin and yes being able to switch teams was certainly one of the big factors in why it failed, but imo it mostly failed cuz the teams weren't random so the same good players all stacked one team every game.