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A small complain i saw mentioned which resonated with me about the party and the commader.


zealex.9410

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The rest of the cast doesnt show genuine affection (friendship) and interest for the commander and their wellbeing all that often. Maybe this is because the expectation is that the commander is very emotionally strong and stable but especially in the newest episode the cast doesnt really show the type of interest a good friend of yours (almost like family) would show if you had a traumatic experience or accident.

These interactions exist for the other characters in the cast, either the commander expresses them or they express them to one another but its very rare that they will direct the same interest to you.

Considering what the commander has gone through in all their adventures you'd expect abit more of an emotional bond their party (with dragon's watch specificly). Everyone asks where is the commander but nobody asks how is the commander ūüėõ

Tl:dr it feels like the rest of the cast views the commander as an associate or coleague that they also like somewhat but the casts between themselves has developed this familial bond that we are sorta viewing from the outside.

Edited by zealex.9410
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Arguably this is intentional; I have seen some pointing out how isolated the Commander is even in the presence of Yao, Rama, and Gorrik, none of which are "old" friends that they have known before, hence the reason why they refused to say anything to them whenever bad things happen.

One person in particular especially mentioned that everyone comes to the Commander because there is a fight, and that's all they are known for. Once it's over, the Commander loses the "appeal" and no one comes to them anymore. Let's also not forget how things like depression tends to be (understandably) overlooked by outsiders, even if they show great concern for the person.

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I don’t think there would be anything more unbearable than having some touchy feels, familial bonds between my pc and the npcs. I’m happy to have some banter and faux friendships, but the disconnect between pc and npc is something I much prefer stay well out of in this sort of game. Those interactions work fine between npcs, but not my character.
 

Explore the world, its societies, cultures, lore and fight great evils - yes. Cross examine the emotions and soul of my character is a hard no. I decide how my character feels and that’s how it should stay, without interference from the writers. It truly bugged me when my character was whining and moaning during the hallucinations. He would never do that - I play heroic fantasy to get away from that in real life. Intruding on my game time is a red line that shouldn’t be being crossed.

Edited by Randulf.7614
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1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I don’t think there would be anything more unbearable than having some touchy feels, familial bonds between my pc and the npcs. I’m happy to have some banter and faux friendships, but the disconnect between pc and npc is something I much prefer stay well out of in this sort of game. Those interactions work fine between npcs, but not my character.
 

Explore the world, its societies, cultures, lore and fight great evils - yes. Cross examine the emotions and soul of my character is a hard no. I decide how my character feels and that’s how it should stay, without interference from the writers. It truly bugged me when my character was whining and moaning during the hallucinations. He would never do that - I play heroic fantasy to get away from that in real life. Intruding on my game time is a red line that shouldn’t be being crossed.

It doesnt have to go to the extend Kass and Jory were during se2 but certainly it could be higher and more genuine. If they want to keep exploraing the commander and their state of being then not having your party show interest in you is very off putting in my opinion.

On the other and if they want to write the commander as a stoic unphasing pillar of morals and ideals thats fine too and having group comfort and support you would make less sense in that situation. Thats not how they presented the commander tho so the lack of that interest and support comes off as hollow and offputting.

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5 hours ago, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

Arguably this is intentional; I have seen some pointing out how isolated the Commander is even in the presence of Yao, Rama, and Gorrik, none of which are "old" friends that they have known before, hence the reason why they refused to say anything to them whenever bad things happen.

One person in particular especially mentioned that everyone comes to the Commander because there is a fight, and that's all they are known for. Once it's over, the Commander loses the "appeal" and no one comes to them anymore. Let's also not forget how things like depression tends to be (understandably) overlooked by outsiders, even if they show great concern for the person.

I agree with Rama  and Yao but we've have been through some very tough situations with gorrik over the years and i think that reckons some intimacy or at least interest on each other's well being.

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I think some of that might be the characters involved. Yao doesn't know the commander that well, neither does Rama really and he has enough trouble talking about his own feelings that he's not sure how to tell the woman he likes how he feels. Gorrik does know the commander quite well at this point, but he tends to be somewhat oblivious to things outside of his immediate interests and also doesn't do well with difficult emotions, he's more likely to make a joke about it than sit you down for a serious conversation - remember how much trouble he had telling Taimi he was concerned about her pushing herself too hard? I suspect we'll get different reactions when other characters come back into the story.

I also think they might have done it this way deliberately as a kind of cliff-hanger. I've seen a lot of people worrying about whether their characters are going to be ok and where it's going to lead and I don't think it would have the same impact if we knew by the end of the first episode they're getting support from their friends to deal with it.

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On 3/3/2023 at 4:14 AM, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

Arguably this is intentional; I have seen some pointing out how isolated the Commander is even in the presence of Yao, Rama, and Gorrik, none of which are "old" friends that they have known before, hence the reason why they refused to say anything to them whenever bad things happen.

One person in particular especially mentioned that everyone comes to the Commander because there is a fight, and that's all they are known for. Once it's over, the Commander loses the "appeal" and no one comes to them anymore. Let's also not forget how things like depression tends to be (understandably) overlooked by outsiders, even if they show great concern for the person.

I kinda take it less about "The appeal of being around the commander" and more of they have their own homes/lives, and the commander is a frequent wanderer. Like when they bring up why hasn't the commander, if Mesmer, received and invite to the collective. "Because I'm not in one place long enough"

After the personal story, we just kinda... wander the world. Everybody goes to their homes/families, but we don't have as much of that anymore. But we will respond if people ask for help/trouble starts up. Less "Rytlock only likes hanging out with us during a fight anymore" but "Rytlock knows he can call on us if stuff goes wrong, but he's got some stuff to do at the house"

On 3/3/2023 at 10:05 AM, Danikat.8537 said:

I think some of that might be the characters involved. Yao doesn't know the commander that well, neither does Rama really and he has enough trouble talking about his own feelings that he's not sure how to tell the woman he likes how he feels. Gorrik does know the commander quite well at this point, but he tends to be somewhat oblivious to things outside of his immediate interests and also doesn't do well with difficult emotions, he's more likely to make a joke about it than sit you down for a serious conversation - remember how much trouble he had telling Taimi he was concerned about her pushing herself too hard? I suspect we'll get different reactions when other characters come back into the story.

I also think they might have done it this way deliberately as a kind of cliff-hanger. I've seen a lot of people worrying about whether their characters are going to be ok and where it's going to lead and I don't think it would have the same impact if we knew by the end of the first episode they're getting support from their friends to deal with it.

 

I also took some of it as Gorrik knows the commander wants to deal with stuff as quickly as possible, even if it's bad for their health. So instead of beating around the bush with "possible nicer solutions", Gorrik does what Gorrik does, lays out the known data on the table immediately. He's not uncaring, he just knows the commander is the biggest lead they have and that's the best chance they have to resolve this quickly with less death.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/3/2023 at 9:51 AM, zealex.9410 said:

I agree with Rama  and Yao but we've have been through some very tough situations with gorrik over the years and i think that reckons some intimacy or at least interest on each other's well being.

It is worth noting that Gorrik is autistic and one of the go-to "stereotypes" of autistic characters is having issues properly displaying and communicating emotions, such as understanding others or showing compassion for said others. Doesn't mean they don't care, they just don't show it the same way.

Whether this is ANet's goal or not is another matter, of course, but it is worth considering.

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On 3/3/2023 at 10:06 AM, zealex.9410 said:

The rest of the cast doesnt show genuine affection (friendship) and interest for the commander and their wellbeing all that often. Maybe this is because the expectation is that the commander is very emotionally strong and stable but especially in the newest episode the cast doesnt really show the type of interest a good friend of yours (almost like family) would show if you had a traumatic experience or accident.

These interactions exist for the other characters in the cast, either the commander expresses them or they express them to one another but its very rare that they will direct the same interest to you.

Considering what the commander has gone through in all their adventures you'd expect abit more of an emotional bond their party (with dragon's watch specificly). Everyone asks where is the commander but nobody asks how is the commander ūüėõ

Tl:dr it feels like the rest of the cast views the commander as an associate or coleague that they also like somewhat but the casts between themselves has developed this familial bond that we are sorta viewing from the outside.

My human commander lost his;

family (unkown parents).

mentor

salad

Spoiler

god he prayed

a certain scientific golem

Spoiler

pact general 

and a lot more people.

 

I would like to see who dares to ask him how he feels¬†ūüėā

Spoiler

He has nothing, literally nothing to live for, just a living corpse drifting among living, continuing to fight without cause.

 

Enjoy spoilers

Edited by stormemperor.3745
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1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It is worth noting that Gorrik is autistic and one of the go-to "stereotypes" of autistic characters is having issues properly displaying and communicating emotions, such as understanding others or showing compassion for said others. Doesn't mean they don't care, they just don't show it the same way.

Whether this is ANet's goal or not is another matter, of course, but it is worth considering.

Being on the spectrum myself I can relate with that aspect of Gorrik a bit. 

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On 3/3/2023 at 2:06 AM, zealex.9410 said:

especially in the newest episode the cast doesnt really show the type of interest a good friend of yours (almost like family) would show if you had a traumatic experience or accident.

I think one of the character choices from this latest story episode that a lot of people are missing is that the Commander isn't being receptive to attempts to address their current mental state or trauma. We're lying to our friends about how we're feeling and very aggressively insisting that we're fine, even though we might not be.

On top of this, the demon we're fighting is weaponizing our past traumas and most tender interpersonal wounds against us and our friends.

An important part of mental health is being honest about whether or not we're actually being open enough with the people closest to us for them to know to take that next step and help us get the care we need. I don't think the Commander is ready for their friends to step in, and I honestly think our friends trying to tell the Commander they aren't fine and need to take time might even be poorly received by the Commander, especially if it came from this crew of newer friends we're teaming up with now in Cantha (maybe with the exception of Gorrik, but good luck getting Gorrik to read our minds and talk to us about our feelings without us asking him explicitly...but I'd be pleasantly surprised if he did anyway and that was part of his growth as a character).

While many have said they feel like our friends are being bad friends, I would actually say in this situation we're the one being the bad friend. We're pushing through pains that are going to get our friends hurt. We already see the early signs of this in the final instance of What Lies Beneath, where we start mistaking our current allies with our deceased compatriots. We're a liability on the battlefield right now and it's our job to recognize this and find a way to keep our personal struggles from hurting other people, especially if we aren't ready to let our friends know we're having problems.

It's cool we're having discussions like this about the game though. But yeah, I'd say people are jumping the gun here. We can't expect people to know what's going on with us when we're actively sabotaging their efforts to do so.

I'm also SUPER interested in how Chul-Moo's past and trauma is going to play into the second half of the story in Gyala Delves. He's being just as evasive and combative as we are, so he might be in bad shape if he doesn't start leaning on his friends as well and confronting his inner demons in a constructive way.

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But this goes back to pre-Gyala when no one asked the Commander the "friend stuff" even when the Commander was asking them. Like at the end of EoD in Arborstone or at the KasJory engagement party. Feels lonely.

I guess I personally wouldn't want to talk about my inner issues to people who have shown no interest in my person so far either.

Edited by anninke.7469
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Its important to remember what the Commander has been through.

 

Its only been less than ten years since we stepped out of town into the wilderness, and during that time we've seen and done more than most people ever do in their entire lives. We've constantly been loved and hated by both our allies and enemies, with the majority of that being endless praise.

 

If you've ever been a gifted child in our world then you know what this is like. No one ever cares about your feelings, not even in the slightest, only what you are capable of; what you can accomplish. When you complete a task, you're not being praised for how well you did the job, or how good you are for doing it, only that the job is done.

 

You slowly become an efficient job-doer and nothing more, with an incredible reputation for the dedication involved in throwing yourself at a problem until its completely solved, when others might give up very quickly once they realise how difficult the task is going to be.

 

As someone with both autism and ADHD, I can tell you that while Gorrik falls on the autism spectrum, the Commander would definitely fall on the ADHD spectrum, especially with how they're treated by others, and the fact that almost everything they've accomplished is the result of hyperfocusing for long periods of time, completely ignoring everything non-adjascent to their goals including their own wellbeing.

 

The main long-term symptom of this behavior is burnout, and we're starting to see that happen.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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17 hours ago, mandala.8507 said:

I think one of the character choices from this latest story episode that a lot of people are missing is that the Commander isn't being receptive to attempts to address their current mental state or trauma. We're lying to our friends about how we're feeling and very aggressively insisting that we're fine, even though we might not be.

On top of this, the demon we're fighting is weaponizing our past traumas and most tender interpersonal wounds against us and our friends.

An important part of mental health is being honest about whether or not we're actually being open enough with the people closest to us for them to know to take that next step and help us get the care we need. I don't think the Commander is ready for their friends to step in, and I honestly think our friends trying to tell the Commander they aren't fine and need to take time might even be poorly received by the Commander, especially if it came from this crew of newer friends we're teaming up with now in Cantha (maybe with the exception of Gorrik, but good luck getting Gorrik to read our minds and talk to us about our feelings without us asking him explicitly...but I'd be pleasantly surprised if he did anyway and that was part of his growth as a character).

While many have said they feel like our friends are being bad friends, I would actually say in this situation we're the one being the bad friend. We're pushing through pains that are going to get our friends hurt. We already see the early signs of this in the final instance of What Lies Beneath, where we start mistaking our current allies with our deceased compatriots. We're a liability on the battlefield right now and it's our job to recognize this and find a way to keep our personal struggles from hurting other people, especially if we aren't ready to let our friends know we're having problems.

It's cool we're having discussions like this about the game though. But yeah, I'd say people are jumping the gun here. We can't expect people to know what's going on with us when we're actively sabotaging their efforts to do so.

I'm also SUPER interested in how Chul-Moo's past and trauma is going to play into the second half of the story in Gyala Delves. He's being just as evasive and combative as we are, so he might be in bad shape if he doesn't start leaning on his friends as well and confronting his inner demons in a constructive way.

The commander did have a mental breakdown screaming and crying themselves to unconciousness tbf so its not a matter of reading someone's mind or the commander telling others that they're fine, you can just see it plainly.

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What I think needs to happen is for Rytlock to show up with a bottle of fine Charr Whiskey in an instance with a sunset and have a one on one with the Commander. One old warrior whose seen things to another where they both let it out quickly followed by a good ole fashioned Killroy Stoneskin beat 'em up cathartic release.

Though I'd settle for Lydia to show up randomly for that. I really liked her dynamic with the Commander. 

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To me, it feels like the commander is the stoic leader that tries to do the right thing and stand strong against all odds, while inspiring others with their bravery, but struggling with doubt and loss so they try to keep a facade as long as possible. Therefore, no one really tries to check on the commander beacuse they think the commander is fine (most of the time).

There are moments that indicate this:

-Kasmeer crying next to the commander's corpse in PoF

-Rytlock trusting them with Sohothin

-Braham saying the commander and their group are a family.

-In War Eternal: commander: "caithe and I will tend to Aurene. The rest of you... you should be with the ones you love" Taimi: "We are"

-Many times in IBS when people check to see if the commander is doing fine with the whispers.

-Braham transforming into wolf to save us etc. etc.

Main point is, there are people that are clearly concerned about the commander.

 

But if we're talking about the now, it's beacuse there are many new characters. Not many people like Yao and Rama have an insight in what the truly commander went trough, just the vague picture and they think the commander is doing good beacuse the commander trying to look fine while still sorting out their thoughts. "Was there a better outcome than this? Where could I have been better? How many people have died beacuse of my shortcomings?". But hey, that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY!

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