condi war - please can you work on improoving it

[Padrion.7382]

Guys, keep keep the discussion civil and constructive, please...

[Vancho.8750]

Personally I think that the condi rotation on Berserker has way too many ifs tacked on, and you have cycle through all the condi abilities to do decent damage (while others can just auto attack to sustain it).

To proc king of fires you have to have aura so you have to leap through fire field and then use rage skill to proc the damage, that is way too many layers of garbage to pull something while guardian has to hit you 3 times to set your kitten ablaze, either it has to proc like 10 stacks of burn for the effort or it should be simplified to the guardian level.

Berserker is all about special bursts but on the condi variation it is not you main concern, there is a reason people like the power version more, it is all about the sweet sweet bursts and getting to hit more of them while on condi feels like you have to do the laundry list of chores. 
If you want to play something that has that Warrior burst gameplay for condi you are better of playing Virtuoso.  

Edited March 7, 2023 by Vancho.8750

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 3/7/2023 at 2:18 PM, Vancho.8750 said:

Personally I think that the condi rotation on Berserker has way too many ifs tacked on, and you have cycle through all the condi abilities to do decent damage (while others can just auto attack to sustain it).

To proc king of fires you have to have aura so you have to leap through fire field and then use rage skill to proc the damage, that is way too many layers of garbage to pull something while guardian has to hit you 3 times to set your kitten ablaze, either it has to proc like 10 stacks of burn for the effort or it should be simplified to the guardian level.

Berserker is all about special bursts but on the condi variation it is not you main concern, there is a reason people like the power version more, it is all about the sweet sweet bursts and getting to hit more of them while on condi feels like you have to do the laundry list of chores. 
If you want to play something that has that Warrior burst gameplay for condi you are better of playing Virtuoso.  

So, in other words, condi warrior takes actual SKILL to play!

Skill: serves you well in this game! (/sarcasm) As you said, guardian just has to auto you a few times, quickly pop some symbols and ...boom..there ya go!

[cyberzombie.7348]

Perhaps if they buffed the arms trait to give better bleed damage, condi wouldn't be so hit-or-miss. Warrior has plenty of access to it but bleed as a whole is obsolete... even by vanilla standards.

Edited April 3, 2023 by cyberzombie.7348
grammar

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 3/7/2023 at 6:05 AM, Padrion.7382 said:

Guys, keep keep the discussion civil and constructive, please...

Um...it already is.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

27 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Um...it already is.

One guy was being a 🤡 but they said their piece and didn't come back.

[JTGuevara.9018]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

One guy was being a 🤡 but they said their piece and didn't come back.

He forgot his tricycle and horn then...

[Mikali.9651]

I am roaming with Condi (well Celestial khm) Berserker in WvW and I had very good success in most of my fights. 
Eternal Champion is SO good and allows for more skillful play overall, as well as actually being able to disengage completely against many opponents.

 

Now, playing against Harbinger or Catalyst...good luck. Harbinger will just destroy you if they are any decent player, and Catalyst...you will just not kill them...

 

My Berserker build is strong, it has very good sustain, disengage, and engage and can hold against pretty much any build but those two.  That being said...it is pretty much about outlasting your opponent...the dmg is just not there.

 

It needs cover condition, much more and faster condition application overall, it needs much more condition damage!

 

When you look at arms and the way condition damage is done...it is just bad. 

Need a Sword to get more condition damage, need Fury to get more condition damage, need to be in Berserker to get more damage, need to have a Torch to get more condition damage, need to critical hit 25 times to max Furious trait, need to have King of Fires to...ups, can't have it, once you have Eternal Champion you can't play without it. 

 

There are just too many nonsense things and too many restrictions. 
To get Fury you need to hit with Burst... which lasts 5 seconds on 15 seconds cooldown, or you need to somehow immobilize them which with Sword is just too hard. 

For a profession that is about Fury...Warrior doesn't really get a good Fury source, IMO at least.  Same thing with Might when going condition damage (Arms/Berserker). 

 

Also, all our condition applications are based on hitting with weapon skills, while others get passive condition applications...dodging, entering shroud, or easier access with range AA, or 900 range skill, or a bunch of stacks that are AoE pulsing and much easier to hit. Longbow hits are too slow and I don't bother playing it. 

 

Our numbers are overall too low, we are too limited, not enough stacks, hard to apply conditions...I mean hard to hit with skills overall, basically no cover conditions...where is torment?! Where did that idea go? It really makes sense for a Warrior!

And let's not even start with useless grandmaster traits in Arms. All three are useless in PvP/WvW, and Furious isn't really anything special for PvE as well. 

 

I could give ideas, but for this post, I am focusing on a...rant/analysis lol 

 

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Last I checked FGJ was a pretty great source of might and fury both of which help with condi on warrior.

But, yes Warrior doesn't really have a 'burst' condi skill that doesn't have onerous requirements on it. If Fan of Fire had 5 arrows and thus 5 stacks of burning then yes it would. Flaming Flurry and Flurry would count though.

LB is too slow, sword's bleeds are locked behind conditionals outside of core F1 and AA. That and warrior does need more torment.

[Mikali.9651]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Last I checked FGJ was a pretty great source of might and fury both of which help with condi on warrior.

But, yes Warrior doesn't really have a 'burst' condi skill that doesn't have onerous requirements on it. If Fan of Fire had 5 arrows and thus 5 stacks of burning then yes it would. Flaming Flurry and Flurry would count though.

LB is too slow, sword's bleeds are locked behind conditionals outside of core F1 and AA. That and warrior does need more torment.

 

When I said that for a profession that is about Fury/Might that Warrior doesn't really have a good source for Fury or Might for condition builds, then I purposely left out FGJ.

 

The way I see FGJ is Warrior giving Fury/Might to others and is not a good enough source for Warrior itself.

The reason is that boons are removed/corrupted easily, especially against Warrior which doesn't really have multiple boon applications for itself. 

When I say that Warrior (for me) is a profession that is about Fury/Might, then I think it should have personal, easy, spammable application of those boons on itself that should come from traits/weapon skills. 

 

example for Condition build, Arms trait line: Furious Burst trait (15-second cooldown for 5-sec application)

example for Power build: Cyclone Axe and Arcing Slice (actually possible to have perma Fury BUT needs to hit enemies!!)

 

These are just not good enough sources for Fury. 

 

Look at Ranger:

Spotter - basically pulsing Fury while in combat for 3 seconds, 10 seconds cooldown
Furious Grip - gain Fury on weapon swap for 5 seconds, 9 seconds cooldown

both in the Skirmishing trait line and combined give 8 seconds of Fury duration - basically perma. 

 

The difference between these 2 examples is night and day, if you ask me. 

That is my problem with Fury regarding Warrior. 

 

Now, imagine if the Furious Burst trait has a 5-second cooldown...now we are talking, it has a short enough cooldown to be able to have Fury perma, and it is kinda easy to apply because it applies Fury on Burst USE, not HIT!
And it is great because it uses Warrior's identity - using burst. 

But then again, that trait applies Fury on Flaming Flurry use, while for vanilla Flurry it applies only AFTER the whole skill is being done, which completely makes trait like Deep Strike useless for Flurry. smh

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Mikali.9651

[Blackthunder.8679]

46 minutes ago, Mikali.9651 said:

Look at Ranger:

Spotter - basically pulsing Fury while in combat for 3 seconds, 10 seconds cooldown
Furious Grip - gain Fury on weapon swap for 5 seconds, 9 seconds cooldown

 

And on top of that they get five percent more crit chance from fury.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

FGJ is as good a source of fury for the warrior itself as it is for their allies.

That aside there is also Opportunist with Arms itself. Both the main warrior condi weapons have a movement impairing condition. Opportunist itself is able to perma maintain Fury, and if you are running sword, which you have to for a condi build, then you have cripple on the AA chain.

Considering that Wounding Precision is just a stat boost, and you are complaining about lack of fury the solution looks pretty obvious there. 

As to the lack of cover conditions and the sluggish application rate of what conditions we do have, that takes weapon and trait tweaks. Namely, that LB's attack animations need to be sped up, Fan of Fire needs 5 arrows not 3, that LB's AA needs to burn by default and have higher projectile speed. Then within Arms Wounding Precision needs to apply Torment in some sort of way (i.e. a 1 for 1 application for 2s to 4s per stack when you apply bleed with no CD), and for Unsuspecting Foe needs to apply confusion (i.e. when striking a CC'd Foe for 3s per stack per hit).

[Dadnir.5038]

How to improve condi war from my point of view:

Core:

• Give some quality of life to Flurry. Let us breath, remove this godforsaken self-root!
• Warrior need more core utility skills applying some conditions without the need of a trait (Example: Make bull charge and throw bola apply a 2-3 bleed stacks baseline, put "fear me!" fear duration to a fixed 1s and add a 5 stack of confusion for 5s to the skill).
• Make Peak performance damage modifiers also affect condition damage.

Berserker:

• Change Last blaze to give the Berseker Fire aura upon using a rage skill instead of making rage skills apply burn.

Spellbreaker:

• Add condition damage to Attacker's insight

Bladesworn:

• Add some burn to the kit. I mean, seriously, the theme of the e-spec is full of fire yet there is not even a single burn applied. They could at least make explosions apply a 1-2s burn stack.

[eXruina.4956]

don't forget when you slot something, you give up on something else, traits, skills, slotting arms for example, what are you gonna give up, defense? discipline? you'll be like fish out of water. will the payoff warrant it to be playable. the same can be said with slot skills, its why most builds are inflexible and set in stone. there are the clear cut best in slot or necessary. with almost no real flex options.

 

condi war needs development, like most of war, but no kittens given, no condi built into our elite specs, outside of berserker, terrible condi weapon options. and i saw mostly only nerfs since HoT, til the recent berserker changes (i love you dev who did those berserker changes, tyvm 💕).

 

honestly they can't even bring power warrior up to speed and thats the side of the coin they've supposedly been working on all these years.

 

so dare us even hope they actually make condi war finally viable since berserker's HoT debut?

Edited April 5, 2023 by eXruina.4956