Doesn't anyone find it weird about Gorrik?

[Guy.9207]

In the end of the latest episode, he literally suggested using the Commander's trauma as a bait to lure the demons or whatever. This is a very questionable idea, even for Gorrik. I say this because supposedly he is the Commander's friend, yet he would not only experiment on them, out of all people, but also subject them to re-live the very traumas that they are having issues with. Even the fact that he's a former Inquest and that he put his brother in Golem body don't really save it from looking really sketchy for him, and to me, it feels like his obliviousness to it all is...concerning to say the least.

The worst thing is, in an attempt to fight off the Demons, Gorrik and his friends have a very high chance of driving the Commander further into the realm of insanity, playing right into the Demons' hands. I understand that "face your fear" is a thing, but you don't just toss someone with hydrophobia into a middle of ocean, and that's exactly what is going to happen here. It's pretty disturbing.

[Fueki.4753]

He even used himself as a breeding ground for our Roller Beetle.

Using others as well without considering their health (be it physically or mentally) doesn't seem too special for him.

He's always been weird.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Guy.9207]

55 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

He even used himself as a breeding ground for our Roller Beetle.

Using others as well without considering their health (be it physically or mentally) doesn't seem too special for him.

He's always been weird.

Gorrik used himself as a breeding ground didn't really hurt anyone but himself, and putting his brother into a Golem was arguably done *for*  the better. This time though, it just seems counter-intuitive and even callous that he didn't realize how this could end up backfiring and making it worse.

[Farohna.6247]

He's Asuran.  The ends justify the means in their scientific reasoning.  Lots of questionable ideas.  Gorrik has found a way in by using the Commander...not exactly a compassionate method or concerned for one's mental health, but very Asuran.

[Fueki.4753]

31 minutes ago, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

Gorrik used himself as a breeding ground didn't really hurt anyone but himself, and putting his brother into a Golem was arguably done *for*  the better. This time though, it just seems counter-intuitive and even callous that he didn't realize how this could end up backfiring and making it worse.

The point is, he used people in various types of experiments and tests before.

Him using himself, Blish and now the commander are only three instances that we know of.

We don't know much, if anything, about what he did before that.

And him being introduced as a member of the Inquest serves to paint him as morally questionable at best from his very first moment in the story.

[voltaicbore.8012]

Not only is Gorrik asura (a culture widely demonstrated to place experimentation, research, and the expansion of knowledge ahead of other considerations like friendship or safety), he's former Inquest. Sure, he might not have been the most cutthroat Inquest member, but he spent his formative years in an organization that's even farther way from the sort of moral considerations you're suggesting.

Despite all the above reasons that would suggest Gorrik would be gung-ho about using the Commander for experimentation, I think what you're missing completely is how reluctant he was to suggest that. I believe he even called it "unfortunate," and I think the rest of the way Gorrik was written and performed supports that perspective. I mean, Gorrik has been pretty attached to the Commander ever since their stint in jail, and he seems super excited about having friends now.

So no, I didn't find it weird at all.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

He even used himself as a breeding ground for our Roller Beetle.

Using others as well without considering their health (be it physically or mentally) doesn't seem too special for him.

He's always been weird.

Additionally:

1. He's Inquest, which are notoriously amoral. He might have left, but his mentality is still Inquest, just the non-villainous side.
2. He also experimented on his own brother for the same reason as he's wanting to experiment on the Commander: to 'cure' them.

[Fueki.4753]

Just now, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Additionally:

1. He's Inquest, which are notoriously amoral. He might have left, but his mentality is still Inquest, just the non-villainous side.
2. He also experimented on his own brother for the same reason as he's wanting to experiment on the Commander: to 'cure' them.

Both are points I raised in my second post:

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The point is, he used people in various types of experiments and tests before.

Him using himself, Blish and now the commander are only three instances that we know of.

We don't know much, if anything, about what he did before that.

And him being introduced as a member of the Inquest serves to paint him as morally questionable at best from his very first moment in the story.

 

[Zola.6197]

If the writers intend for this experiment to be (however unintentionally on Gorrik’s part) unethical, I would be curious to see how other DW characters react when they learn about it.

I didn’t really think about the moral implications of using the commander’s trauma as bait, which surprises me haha. It just felt par for the course for a fantasy story.

[Lupini.6938]

I find it more weird that as a previously dedicated research scientist that was able to successfully upload a living person into a golem body, he is now a...detective...?

I get that researchers and scientists are all kind of "hunters."  However, taking him out of the lab so quickly just seems weird to me.  I keep expecting him to say "Nope, too much dirt, bad food,  and crappy beds out her in the wild.  I'm heading back to the lab."

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Lupini.6938 said:

I keep expecting him to say "Nope, too much dirt, bad food,  and crappy beds out her in the wild.  I'm heading back to the lab."

As an expert in insects, spiders and other kinds of bugs, I expect him to be used to outdoor living conditions.

I doubt someone else (except maybe Blish) would have caught his specimens for him.

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:36 PM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

 

Despite all the above reasons that would suggest Gorrik would be gung-ho about using the Commander for experimentation, I think what you're missing completely is how reluctant he was to suggest that. I believe he even called it "unfortunate," and I think the rest of the way Gorrik was written and performed supports that perspective. I mean, Gorrik has been pretty attached to the Commander ever since their stint in jail, and he seems super excited about having friends now.

I think you actually make a very good point here: The "commander's friend" side of Gorrik wants to keep the commander safe, but the gravity of the situation requires his "rational scientist" side to still divulge this information, since he knows of it, so it would be irresponsible to not mention this option.

[Ephurum.2965]

My personal viewpoint on this is that Gorrik does care. But you're The Commander. They've delved once before into your memories and relived the hardships. In Gorrik's eyes, you're unstoppable. You've done this before. You've been hurt before. And everytime something goes outwardly terrible (like the end of EoD) you're still there to pick up the pieces. I think this is an odd establishment of... let's say its belief from the G-man. He recognizes that this will be tough for you, but the thought of failure doesn't really come into his hypothesis because, at the end of the day, you're always on top.  Yes, Gorrik is/was Inquest. Yes, the push for science is a big drive for Gorrik, but he's not the same as he was when we met him. There has been growth. His arc in EoD was about all about faith in a person (Ankka) . And at the end of the day, this faith in that person and who he thought they were didn't line up. This led to his growth.

It seems, to me, that the big notion of this story will be the inner workings of the Commander's trauma, this is pretty obvious lol. But I don't think the Commander will have processed these traumas as well as others think they have. I find it fascinating and am really excited to see the aspect of failure in a way we've never seen before. There's no world ending mission, the world won't explode. Its just... you. And the consequences that have led you here.

[Kalavier.1097]

21 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

As an expert in insects, spiders and other kinds of bugs, I expect him to be used to outdoor living conditions.

I doubt someone else (except maybe Blish) would have caught his specimens for him.

He literally remarks about this in end of dragons when somebody comments about him needing to "Get outside more." IIRC. He replies "Of course I go outside. It's where the bugs are at."

 

30 minutes ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

I think you actually make a very good point here: The "commander's friend" side of Gorrik wants to keep the commander safe, but the gravity of the situation requires his "rational scientist" side to still divulge this information, since he knows of it, so it would be irresponsible to not mention this option.

I took it much more as him going "Listen, there is obviously a connection here, and we need to deal with that creature. Sadly, it's the commander's brain on the line so we need to investigate this more."

He's laying out the known details straight on the table, with the biggest known lure for the Oni being discovered already. Vs trying to do other things that may not work.

 

23 hours ago, Lupini.6938 said:

I find it more weird that as a previously dedicated research scientist that was able to successfully upload a living person into a golem body, he is now a...detective...?

I get that researchers and scientists are all kind of "hunters."  However, taking him out of the lab so quickly just seems weird to me.  I keep expecting him to say "Nope, too much dirt, bad food,  and crappy beds out her in the wild.  I'm heading back to the lab."

He also used his connections to become the first researcher on skyscales, so adventuring with the commander has provided much more research chances then not. And after the jailtime in EoD and trying to right the wrongs he accidentally helped cause, he decided to dive into this new field (Just like he did with rollerbettles and skyscales) with all his mind. And he has excellent tutors who are also friends.

1 minute ago, Ephurum.2965 said:

My personal viewpoint on this is that Gorrik does care. But you're The Commander. They've delved once before into your memories and relived the hardships. In Gorrik's eyes, you're unstoppable. You've done this before. You've been hurt before. And everytime something goes outwardly terrible (like the end of EoD) you're still there to pick up the pieces. I think this is an odd establishment of... let's say its belief from the G-man. He recognizes that this will be tough for you, but the thought of failure doesn't really come into his hypothesis because, at the end of the day, you're always on top.  Yes, Gorrik is/was Inquest. Yes, the push for science is a big drive for Gorrik, but he's not the same as he was when we met him. There has been growth. His arc in EoD was about all about faith in a person (Ankka) . And at the end of the day, this faith in that person and who he thought they were didn't line up. This led to his growth.

It seems, to me, that the big notion of this story will be the inner workings of the Commander's trauma, this is pretty obvious lol. But I don't think the Commander will have processed these traumas as well as others think they have. I find it fascinating and am really excited to see the aspect of failure in a way we've never seen before. There's no world ending mission, the world won't explode. Its just... you. And the consequences that have led you here.

Also the aspect of the big lure for the Oni has already been established, and it's much more prudent to use the lure, however uncomfortable it is, then to risk more death or destruction. He doesn't say it with cheer or excitement, but "well bleep, we gotta figure out how this works."

 

I do enjoy also that this current stuff isn't world threatening or anything else. It's just one mine that went too deep and found an Oni den, causing madness in that very specific mine.

 

On 3/4/2023 at 1:15 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Additionally:

1. He's Inquest, which are notoriously amoral. He might have left, but his mentality is still Inquest, just the non-villainous side.
2. He also experimented on his own brother for the same reason as he's wanting to experiment on the Commander: to 'cure' them.

Yep, they've slowly broken some of the social norns of Asura out of him, but not all.

[Gibson.4036]

I mean, Gorrik brought his agency licensing paperwork to what was supposed to be a marriage proposal.

This thread got me thinking why I like Gorrik so much but dislike Taimi, even though they both have narcissistic tendencies.

I’ve decided it’s probably because Taimi knows she can be narcissistic, and just paints a chipper face on it and forges ahead. Whereas Gorrik is just nerd-focused and largely oblivious to how that affects other people.

I can affectionately overlook what Gorrik just doesn’t process.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Kalavier.1097]

17 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I mean, Gorrik brought his agency licensing paperwork to what was supposed to be a marriage proposal.

This thread got me thinking why I like Gorrik so much but dislike Taimi, even though they both have narcissistic tendencies.

I’ve decided it’s probably because Taimi knows she can be narcissistic, and just paints a chipper face on it and forges ahead. Whereas Gorrik is just nerd-focused and largely oblivious to how that affects other people.

I can affectionately overlook what Gorrik just doesn’t process.

Gorrik was also an adult before he fully started working with other species on a regular basis.

Taimi was fairly young when starting to work with others, and thus broke out of some of the cultural traits quicker then others.

Combo with how Gorrik is *mostly* head first into his work, and Taimi reacts/cares about others more.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:11 PM, Lupini.6938 said:

I find it more weird that as a previously dedicated research scientist that was able to successfully upload a living person into a golem body, he is now a...detective...?

I get that researchers and scientists are all kind of "hunters."  However, taking him out of the lab so quickly just seems weird to me.  I keep expecting him to say "Nope, too much dirt, bad food,  and crappy beds out her in the wild.  I'm heading back to the lab."

Wasn't exactly done "quickly". Gorrik was taken out of the lab in Season 4. With All or Nothing, he turned to logistics as his part in helping take down Kralkatorrik, and in IBS he turned to investigating with Taimi, which required a lot of open field. Then we saw him turn to investigation to get revenge on Ankka in EoD.
Basically, he's been spending the past three years slowly getting out of the lab and into new mindsets, and all of which begins with the same motive: revenge.

Proooobably isn't all that healthy, to be honest.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[mandala.8507]

Y'all, the premise of the scenario is that this is the only way forward and our character, the Commander, agrees with Gorrik. Gorrik literally apologizes and says "I wish there was another way" and we tell him it's okay and that it's something we need to do.

I get that a lot of people view the Commander as themselves, but nothing heartless, callous, or sinister is happening because of Gorrik.

Gorrik literally drags the rest of our friend group out of their haze-derived stupor with his strong sense of self and his desire to be a team player and not fall victim to the outside influences inflicting everyone with undue animosity...and the takeaway from the patch is that Gorrik is a bad friend????

I'm flabbergasted. Leave Gorrik alone, lol.

If you don't like the scenario, say that. But the scenario doesn't for a second paint Gorrik as a bad friend. He is nothing but concerned for our group's safety and well-being the whole patch and you're dragging him like this? I can't.

[anninke.7469]

I don't know. Maybe if he said "no other way" after we've seen him actually trying to find one it would feel more genuine?

[Omega.6801]

Gorrik has no actual concept of caring for others. He knows how to act as if he's caring and he knows what reaction is expected when someone dies f.e. but he doesn't actually feel it. Also he's an Asura, the least empathetic race in Tyria. As someone who really likes Sylvari, I will never let them live down what they did and given the chance, I'd burn every Rata and salt the scorched earth. Also, he's Inquest, the least caring of the Asura. So no, it's not strange, it's 100% in character. It's not cute, it's not awkward. It's just rats being rats.

[mandala.8507]

12 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

Gorrik has no actual concept of caring for others. He knows how to act as if he's caring and he knows what reaction is expected when someone dies f.e. but he doesn't actually feel it. Also he's an Asura, the least empathetic race in Tyria. As someone who really likes Sylvari, I will never let them live down what they did and given the chance, I'd burn every Rata and salt the scorched earth. Also, he's Inquest, the least caring of the Asura. So no, it's not strange, it's 100% in character. It's not cute, it's not awkward. It's just rats being rats.

What an upsetting and vile comment. And just wrong.

[Guy.9207]

7 hours ago, mandala.8507 said:

Y'all, the premise of the scenario is that this is the only way forward and our character, the Commander, agrees with Gorrik. Gorrik literally apologizes and says "I wish there was another way" and we tell him it's okay and that it's something we need to do.

I get that a lot of people view the Commander as themselves, but nothing heartless, callous, or sinister is happening because of Gorrik.

Gorrik literally drags the rest of our friend group out of their haze-derived stupor with his strong sense of self and his desire to be a team player and not fall victim to the outside influences inflicting everyone with undue animosity...and the takeaway from the patch is that Gorrik is a bad friend????

I'm flabbergasted. Leave Gorrik alone, lol.

If you don't like the scenario, say that. But the scenario doesn't for a second paint Gorrik as a bad friend. He is nothing but concerned for our group's safety and well-being the whole patch and you're dragging him like this? I can't.

I never said Gorrik is a bad friend, nor that I do not like the scenario that our characters find themselves in. I just thought that the idea of having someone re-living their trauma would not be something that's going to be done, even knowing Gorrik and his personality.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I dunno how people can keep saying Asura are the 'least empathetic race' when two of the most compassionate characters in the early story were Asura medics in the pact. 

[Omega.6801]

5 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I dunno how people can keep saying Asura are the 'least empathetic race' when two of the most compassionate characters in the early story were Asura medics in the pact. 

Maybe this chapter of history has something to do with it.
--> Meeting the Asura
Or maybe it's things like the renown heart below.
--> Help Brill Alliance study the Skritt

[maxwelgm.4315]

Gorrik is a former Inquest member and Inquest are the epitome of the "knowledge above all" Lovecraftian trope - he will solve something and find out what is going on with something no matter the cost. Still, I slightly agree with the OP in the sense that his character arc should already have gone beyond this sort of thing. It's indeed surprising that he would propose to use the Commander as demonic bait after what happened to Ankka. But the writers decided to keep it going I suppose.