The argument "X content isn't economically viable" doesn't hold up in the long run

[Moriartiy.6753]

When people argue over the negligence of gamemodes whether it is about new raids, new PVP content or wvw (the mode that is actually getting some love) a common argument is that the content doesn't make enough money for Anet to invest in.

 

This argument does hold up short term why develop a raid that doesn't get played as much as a strike when its several times the cost. However what happens long-term that could be really bad marketing towards new players. try to imagine you are someone who is hearing about GW2 the first time and you hear that dungeons were unsuccessful and haven't gotten any content in 10 years, Raids no Content in more than 3 years, PVP no Content, WvW which has this one thing in development since 5 years. I don't want to be dooming to hard as i actually enjoy the state of the game atm but from an outside point of view neglecting more than half of your game does look pretty bad and if we take a look into the future what more do we really get that is confirmed? Open world, strikes and fractals - basically the same we got before the axing of Living world although potentially in more frequent cadence. 

What could be done?
Maybe the Solutions for raids could be to cheapen the production maybe reuse a story instance but refill it with different bosses - Glints Lair could make for a nice Raid or bundle 3 strikes together and add something in-between. Maybe the Dungeons could be reworked into fractals or strike mission heck even raids? i know there was some problem with how they were ancient code or something but the stuff is there please do something with it - like do hard mode and scale them up 
PvP give us some game modes, KOTH, Capture the flag, 10v10 death match in the colosseum - doesn't even have to be super balanced for ranked just make it fun !
WvW ship alliances, continue with the QOL thats actually fine

[draxynnic.3719]

You've pretty much described what strikes are - repackaging story content with additional mechanics to make endgame group content.

[Bakeneko.5826]

Not loosing money due to unwanted content is bad. Weird statement, but OK

[Moriartiy.6753]

23 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

You've pretty much described what strikes are - repackaging story content with additional mechanics to make endgame group content.

The main difference and problem with the currently existing strikes i have is that its just "Boss in a box" its feels very disconnected and i hope this isn't the what the future of all instanced content kitten sunqa peak CM pretty much stepped into that direction

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

19 hours ago, Moriartiy.6753 said:

The main difference and problem with the currently existing strikes i have is that its just "Boss in a box" its feels very disconnected and i hope this isn't the what the future of all instanced content kitten sunqa peak CM pretty much stepped into that direction

That is one of my biggest issues with strikes.  It's a fight just for a fight, and doesn't really add anything.  Fractals and raids are adventures where the player uncovers things, and the CMS for 98-100 are white-knuckle experiences the first time you do them.

It is definitely hard to quantify how much money that raids put into the game, either via player retention, the fun of doing raids, or the investments necessary to create legendary armor.  I also have no idea the man-hours it takes to create raids.  Raids and fractals clearly being the superior model for entertainment purposes doesn't necessarily mean that they'll compensate for the man hours.  My guess is that additional raids are more dependent on the outside economy.  If the real world economy is doing well, that would draw in more money to create more raids.  I would hope so, because even though I don't raid regularly anymore I would definitely attempt a new one when introduced.

The biggest problem with your theory on player retention is the chicken or egg issue.  While you say it is disheartening to players to hear that dungeons/raids/etc aren't being updated, that works under the presumption that players are joining the game while looking forward to these things in a significant enough number as to be a financial detriment to Anet to not cater to their desires.  If that were true, it raises one question:  why abandon making dungeons/raids/etc. in the first place?  If it were true, then there wouldn't have been a financial drain argument made, because that content would clearly be reeling in the dough.  There wouldn't be a rational reason to end up where we are right now.

Instead of the egg coming first, think of the chicken coming first.  New players joining the game are a demeanor such that they don't care about dungeons/raids/ect.  If that circumstance is true, then that would explain why content gets abandoned.  The desires of the players come first, and then Anets design goals comes second to cater to these players.  That means more shiny BLTC skins, more open world maps with quippy stories, and less hard-core content that requires deep knowledge and competency in the game.  It is unfortunate that you and I are in the minority content-wise, but it is the logical deduction from Anets actions regarding content development.  

Edited March 7, 2023 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[LadyMari.7920]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:29 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

While you say it is disheartening to players to hear that dungeons/raids/etc aren't being updated, that works under the presumption that players are joining the game while looking forward to these things in a significant enough number as to be a financial detriment to Anet to not cater to their desires.  If that were true, it raises one question:  why abandon making dungeons/raids/etc. in the first place?  If it were true, then there wouldn't have been a financial drain argument made, because that content would clearly be reeling in the dough.  There wouldn't be a rational reason to end up where we are right now.

Instead of the egg coming first, think of the chicken coming first.  New players joining the game are a demeanor such that they don't care about dungeons/raids/ect.  If that circumstance is true, then that would explain why content gets abandoned.  The desires of the players come first, and then Anets design goals comes second to cater to these players.  That means more shiny BLTC skins, more open world maps with quippy stories, and less hard-core content that requires deep knowledge and competency in the game.  It is unfortunate that you and I are in the minority content-wise, but it is the logical deduction from Anets actions regarding content development.  

 

Sometimes I wonder if not having new dungeons, raids, etc. signals to the players that GW2 isn't about this type of in-game content and so they never develop the desire to do it. Emboldened mode (basically a raid update) encouraged many new raiders to jump in and whet their appetite for more. It was a delight to see people put on the mantle of courage and attempt their first raid clears.

In other games, raids are a way to get armor for your toon or weapons and whatnot. That isn't necessary in GW2. So what would draw people do raids if they seem dead? I see people saying that raids are dead, strikes are where it's at now. So new players hear this and don't bother with raids. Or dungeons. Some go back and try fractals when someone mentions that it is good gold.

 

I think dungeons, raids, fractals, and WvW are loads of fun. It makes me sad that the overall picture being created, in part by veteran players, is that they aren't worth trying. I look forward to more positive changes for these content modes. Emboldened was a good step. We're getting a new fractal. Alliances are still... slowly but steadily moving forward. Unfortunately we aren't getting any dungeons so far, just a new frantically paced meta map. I still love the game in all its modes (except pvp, I'm just not good at that) and am patiently awaiting more positive changes. I do hope for more raid wings. XD I'll just keep playing whatever I feel like playing...