Tired of being one-shot

[Burnfall.9573]

1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said:

sure sure. But i'm bad enough that i don't have my issues with those details. Same is when zerging, lately i just suck. I even don't get my breach off and get CCd into oblivion, then i'm already dead. i use burning trail to get some stab but that doesn't seem to help.

there are 2 main issues:

1) the enemy is just playing better than i am (or "we are", in a zerg)

2) we / i just play worse than them

the best thing to do is to improve. i know i need to learn to use the terrain better. I know i need to learn to follow the commander better, etc. this is way more to gain for someone like me than complaining about dev's work.

 

/edit:

i just feel like, in a Forum, everyone is always "a top player" and can "easily take on 1v5s" cause he's so awesome. well, i am not afraid to say i'm not. ^^

and i guess, i'm not the only one in reality.

 

Here I believe is the first report om WvW forum about +1 shot. 

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/12k-hit-possible

 

The date and year that is on the evidence report is September 2012.  Since than, Thief Professions remain the only 'untouched' +1 shot and Perma-Stealth Profession in the game; while every Professions including Mesmer Profession +1 shots were regularly nerfed including their stealth's. 

 

+1 shot has been accepted and tolerated in the game for 11 years. So if you have someone to blame, it is solely Anet.  Anet is solely Responsible to encourage or to discourage unhealthy (Toxic) game play experience and its environments for its players. 

 

11 Years of acceptance and tolerance of Toxic +1 shots are not your fault and never will be your fault. The sad result in all of this, players are feeling inadequate for not "rising to the top' and once again, it is Anet to be blamed for allowing Toxicity to create Toxic skill ceilings and Toxic skill floors in the Professions designs , in their mechanics, players environment  and including players experience.

 

-Encouragement-

 

Being Awesome! and being a Top Player is believing in yourself,  being yourself,  learning from your mistakes and doing the best that you can.

 

"Do The Best You Can Until, You Know Better. Than When You Know Better, Do Better"

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[CafPow.1542]

46 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Being Awesome! and being a Top Player is believing in yourself,  being yourself,  learning from your mistakes and doing the best that you can.

yeah i believe in myself and i try to be better but there is "believe" and than, there is "reality".

when i can't overcome sombody in a 1v1 then there are only 2 options.

1) he plays a broken build

2) i'm bad. (or at least, worse than him)

 

now assuming 1) is true, you go into the forum and cry and hope that maybe anet does something.

assuming 2) is true, you go there and try to improve yourself and get better.

there where Tons of Tips and Tricks in this thread how to avoid the Lol-Flame Warrior Burst just by playing the Zerg right as a Glasscanon-SB but still it's the specc that is broken althogh it's just a one-trick pony.

you know...

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

and i stick with the commi but i just get CCd after 2 steps, i can't follow him, i get CCd more. I try to place a well or breach, i get CCd, then i'm dead.

I would have to see a video you capture of your play to provide good constructive feedback on this. Reviewing your own video is usually the next step to improving your gameplay.

That said, and without knowing the specific situation, even with support, please don't dive into a mass of red circles. An area wider than your dodge distance can be plastered in front of you. Try dodging diagonally forward instead of attempting to cross the whole diameter. Even better if you find a path without needing to dodge.  Try staying to the sides of a choke instead of attempting to path through the concentration of badness in the middle.

As necro you actually want to use your tag as a meat shield instead of strict melee positioning. Especially in open field, work your position to keep the tag between the opponent and yourself no matter how the battle rotates. Use your barrier skills on engage to tank some of the damage.  Sand Flare is great for that.

I wouldn't use personal marker on support. Keep it on the tag. It is supports job to watch you.

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Burnfall.9573]

1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said:

yeah i believe in myself and i try to be better but there is "believe" and than, there is "reality".

when i can't overcome sombody in a 1v1 then there are only 2 options.

1) he plays a broken build

2) i'm bad. (or at least, worse than him)

 

now assuming 1) is true, you go into the forum and cry and hope that maybe anet does something.

assuming 2) is true, you go there and try to improve yourself and get better.

there where Tons of Tips and Tricks in this thread how to avoid the Lol-Flame Warrior Burst just by playing the Zerg right as a Glasscanon-SB but still it's the specc that is broken althogh it's just a one-trick pony.

you know...

 

Yes, most diffidently, it is the spec that is broken. You see, Anet allowed Toxicity to go unpunished (hard nerf-removal) for so many years, it severely left little to no chance of any learning curve for the players. 

 

You see, I also main Mesmer Profession. All it takes to +1 shot is with few buttons (shatter). I am totally against +1 shots and Mesmer Profession is no exception to it. 

 

To begin with, Mesmer Profession +1 shot is not part of its identity, so whatever Anet did to make it a 1 trick pony, goes against its identity in every way. 

 

Until Anet do something about it, expect nothing to happen until Toxicity self-destruct the entire game. 

[Junkpile.7439]

Of course it takes only couple buttons to one shot. Killing some blobber or celestial lamer takes much more. No idea how you nerf all classes so they can't do let's say 14k damage fast. It would be kind of unfair if anet wouldn't nerf enough and full class core ele would still get one shotted.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Junkpile.7439

[Burnfall.9573]

14 minutes ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Of course it takes only couple buttons to one shot. Killing some blobber or celestial lamer takes nuch more.

 

That too, Celestial removal is past due from the game.

[CafPow.1542]

7 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

That said, and without knowing the specific situation, even with support, please don't dive into a mass of red circles. An area wider than your dodge distance can be plastered in front of you. Try dodging diagonally forward instead of attempting to cross the whole diameter. Even better if you find a path without needing to dodge.  Try staying to the sides of a choke instead of attempting to path through the concentration of badness in the middle.

yeah i think that's it. i admit, being in a zerg can be pretty overwhelming. sometimes i lose my commi etc. there is a lot of room for improvement but "watch red circles" is a valuable tipp, i will look at that more in the future. thanks 😄

[blp.3489]

A little off topic but, what do you do when you are someplace like hills keep and there are two dozen red circles in the passage into the lord's chamber?  Can you do anything other than wait for your support infested blob to arrive?

[Dawdler.8521]

4 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

A little off topic but, what do you do when you are someplace like hills keep and there are two dozen red circles in the passage into the lord's chamber?  Can you do anything other than wait for your support infested blob to arrive?

Swap to sheild, block half the way, stealth so they cant tell whether you will go left or right, dodge the the last half. If you get the eyes of 5+ on you for a while, its a success.

Now if only a few more does the same thing with their class invoulns, teleports etc you probably  got half the enemy group distracted and the heavies outside the passage can push through in order to avoid those few getting too much focus too fast.

In a more realistic scenario 

A few decent players do go in and get half the enemies attention on them, but then the remaining people outside which outnumber the enemy inside 2 to 1 has the tactical brains of a Portoguese man o' war a so they cower outside until everyone inside has died, then push when the enemy has 100% focus on the passage so that half of them die in an instant and the other half run away.
 

[MarzAttakz.9608]

21 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Swap to sheild, block half the way, stealth so they cant tell whether you will go left or right, dodge the the last half. If you get the eyes of 5+ on you for a while, its a success.

Now if only a few more does the same thing with their class invoulns, teleports etc you probably  got half the enemy group distracted and the heavies outside the passage can push through in order to avoid those few getting too much focus too fast.

In a more realistic scenario 

A few decent players do go in and get half the enemies attention on them, but then the remaining people outside which outnumber the enemy inside 2 to 1 has the tactical brains of a Portoguese man o' war a so they cower outside until everyone inside has died, then push when the enemy has 100% focus on the passage so that half of them die in an instant and the other half run away.
 

Except the Man o' War has tentacles that kill instead of just tickle...

Everything else as you said.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, blp.3489 said:

A little off topic but, what do you do when you are someplace like hills keep and there are two dozen red circles in the passage into the lord's chamber?  Can you do anything other than wait for your support infested blob to arrive?

In addition to what Dawdler wrote, you have to remember that those red circles still have target caps.  If you're the only person going in, it's gonna hurt.  If you're one person in several going in at the same time, it won't hurt so much.  You might be the winner of the target cap lottery.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[CafPow.1542]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

with their class invoulns, teleports etc

*cries in necromancer*

especially as P/C Scourge ^^

[ArchonWing.9480]

7 hours ago, blp.3489 said:

A little off topic but, what do you do when you are someplace like hills keep and there are two dozen red circles in the passage into the lord's chamber?  Can you do anything other than wait for your support infested blob to arrive?

Well, if they're on lord, nothing.  Your team was too late with the scouting or nobody was on. If you just tell me "they're on lord" with no previous warnings then I'm not going to even acknowledge that.

 If you have a few people, sometimes spacing golems and hiding a few more behind the wall will buy some time. This doesn't really work at hills because of the narrow hallways and  hills is pretty much at a huge disadvantage if they push into the lord's room and why you can't allow that to happen.

You should be asking about what to do before it gets to that point. Yes, sometimes nobody is on or people were late on scouting and you lose it. But there are a number of things you can do to buy time before this happens. (eg. proper positioning of trebuchets, disablers, and attacking their tail when they are traveling to your keep.).

Note that you should only attack trailing members of the zerg when the zerg as a whole is moving. If they are somewhat together, then it is trivial for them to instagib or just res whoever you downed. These are very tiny windows and not all sniping is equal. If it's an enemy guilld group, for example, picking off a random following pug won't accomplish much and some guilds actually use these as baits. Now, pulling away a support and knocking them off a cliff though... This is hills we're talking about right? If they're at the cata spot, it's very viable to suicide punt/pull them off a cliff and there's a few videos on Youtube on the matter.

Other keeps like Bay, garri, or most of the desert keeps have more space to play around with. But hills? It's all about preemptive defense or nothing.  So if say, both structures come under attack, then Hills is the one that needs more urgent action but if they're already in, then Bay is easier to defend.

It's your responsibility as defender to buy at least 2-3 minutes and hopefully others are on the map to scout, especially if it's a map zone blob that requires immediate attention. If your team sucks, then that's not really your responsibility to carry them.

As a defender it probably takes around 2-3x my current numbers to present a real threat unless they're very coordinated. If you can establish that baseline then you can consider trying that against blobs. When it gets to around 40+ I start to be unable to do much alone because they will just simply auto block/reflect any disablers or anything else. Though against a pug zerg, you can still make some headway.

Note that it is very fair to simply recognize a structure as lost and backcap things or attack their borderland in the hopes of them moving back.

Also you also need to recognize the group as actually playing WvW. Some groups for example just want to farm kills and will delay caps.  Diversionary tactics will not work against those people (unless they generate orange swords as they chase them) and they will not map change to defend their stuff.

In those cases you can  completely ignore them until they actually commit to breaking in. Please don't get baited out and feed for no reason.

Also in general you want a build that is self sufficient, which includes multiple stunbreaks, condi clears  and ideally some mobility/invuls/damage mitigation. If you instantly melt when the zerg looks at you, try again.

Edited April 10, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

22 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, if they're on lord, nothing.  Your team was too late with the scouting or nobody was on. If you just tell me "they're on lord" with no previous warnings then I'm not going to even acknowledge that.

 If you have a few people, sometimes spacing golems and hiding a few more behind the wall will buy some time. This doesn't really work at hills because of the narrow hallways and  hills is pretty much at a huge disadvantage if they push into the lord's room and why you can't allow that to happen.

You should be asking about what to do before it gets to that point. Yes, sometimes nobody is on or people were late on scouting and you lose it. But there are a number of things you can do to buy time before this happens. (eg. proper positioning of trebuchets, disablers, and attacking their tail when they are traveling to your keep.).

Note that you should only attack trailing members of the zerg when the zerg as a whole is moving. If they are somewhat together, then it is trivial for them to instagib or just res whoever you downed. These are very tiny windows and not all sniping is equal. If it's an enemy guilld group, for example, picking off a random following pug won't accomplish much and some guilds actually use these as baits. Now, pulling away a support and knocking them off a cliff though... This is hills we're talking about right? If they're at the cata spot, it's very viable to suicide punt/pull them off a cliff and there's a few videos on Youtube on the matter.

Other keeps like Bay, garri, or most of the desert keeps have more space to play around with. But hills? It's all about preemptive defense or nothing.  So if say, both structures come under attack, then Hills is the one that needs more urgent action but if they're already in, then Bay is easier to defend.

It's your responsibility as defender to buy at least 2-3 minutes and hopefully others are on the map to scout, especially if it's a map zone blob that requires immediate attention. If your team sucks, then that's not really your responsibility to carry them.

As a defender it probably takes around 2-3x my current numbers to present a real threat unless they're very coordinated. If you can establish that baseline then you can consider trying that against blobs. When it gets to around 40+ I start to be unable to do much alone because they will just simply auto block/reflect any disablers or anything else. Though against a pug zerg, you can still make some headway.

Note that it is very fair to simply recognize a structure as lost and backcap things or attack their borderland in the hopes of them moving back.

Also you also need to recognize the group as actually playing WvW. Some groups for example just want to farm kills and will delay caps.  Diversionary tactics will not work against those people (unless they generate orange swords as they chase them) and they will not map change to defend their stuff.

In those cases you can  completely ignore them until they actually commit to breaking in. Please don't get baited out and feed for no reason.

Also in general you want a build that is self sufficient, which includes multiple stunbreaks, condi clears  and ideally some mobility/invuls/damage mitigation. If you instantly melt when the zerg looks at you, try again.

Well put. Letting them get into inner hills is a bad idea. If its pug defenders or roamers you are in trouble or you need to push together. If you see some tanks going in don't waffle too long since they are looking to try and soak some for people behind them but if you don't push then it was a waste and lost anyway.

The one thing I haven't seen in a quite a while after you (Archon) made me think about it is the counter cats to knock them off the bridge as they cross, old school EoTM style. Course that would rely on scouts and time to prep it and would be limited use but... Might have to play with that one since its been a while. Still better to keep them out of inner in general though.

[ArchonWing.9480]

You can build shield gens below the bridge. However, against more organized blobs they just have too much stab and they won't be lax.
 

The best time to get them is when they cata outer, especially if not fully grouped up so stab/reflect uptime is more sketch.

Most infamous are spectral grab necros that can jump off the cliff and take people with them but a well place ring is also effective.

When at the gate, necros can abuse spectral walk, and eles mist form.

In general, you will need a distraction to bait people because if they see you coming alone none of this will work. Something like a staff daredevil or annoying bunker warrior/vindicator is effective at drawing enemy fiire if decent.

We were able to defend NE tower against a 20-30 group with a few people though there were a  more casual* guild. I used stealth to disable rams like 4 times while someone else used a mortar. I also pulled the ewp to get like 3 takers but it is desert BL.

Also did something similar to NW tower. However, I only disabled some of the catapults and then realized the wall was 30% from a previous attack. Yea, repairing walls isn't a thing anymore.

Note again more organized blobs these things are much less effective. There are some "fight" guilds that constantly change their names either because they keep reforming because they hate each other but want to win or they don't want people to recognize them. You can see this by how they move, but if they're concealing their identity in such a lame manner, then I refuse to entertain them in any manner. In that case there will only be supply traps.

Sometimes I will switch to my mesmer to mess with them. I will waste illusion on any random pug they down (Because if you spend 5 minutes pirateshipping to get 1 thief you don't deserve the kill), and of course God help you if you're a firebrand because I hope you know how to press 5.

Edited April 11, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[kash.9213]

22 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Well put. Letting them get into inner hills is a bad idea. If its pug defenders or roamers you are in trouble or you need to push together. If you see some tanks going in don't waffle too long since they are looking to try and soak some for people behind them but if you don't push then it was a waste and lost anyway.

The one thing I haven't seen in a quite a while after you (Archon) made me think about it is the counter cats to knock them off the bridge as they cross, old school EoTM style. Course that would rely on scouts and time to prep it and would be limited use but... Might have to play with that one since its been a while. Still better to keep them out of inner in general though.

In all of the attacks on Hills I've been in, there's always a handful of people waiting up near that door or probing outside from the hallway a bit to try to head off defenders. They normally don't need to but sometimes it makes sense with something like a havoc attack vs blob defense response to give them a target to consider before pouring into the lord room. 

As an attacker or defender, I know at least one or two of the attackers are going to get locked down before they can scramble back in and around the corner or down the stairs or someone will get pulled way out and maybe then to the side. Sometimes you know that was one of their somebodies and they'll direct the train outside to clean up the defenders or drive them off back across the bridge or something, but that's when the defenders can make that lane hot and sticky and thin them out each time the attackers respond, or the defenders can gamble with a smart distance close with Control and all the saved-up firepower.

Probably still going to lose Hills, but we've all seen that attack get tanked when it probably didn't need to. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by kash.9213

[Burnfall.9573]

Until Anet hard-nerf, remove +1 shot with continual repetitive unhealthy, non-competitive game design; nothing will change

 

A Time For Change!!

 

It is an urge for the community to change. If Anet does not change, we got to change. 

 

It is an urge for us to take a good hard look into ourselves and ask ourselves, is it not time for us to make the change?

 

We are the one continuing to allow and accept more years of neglect to our concerns; more years of discouragements, more years of disappointments, more years of empty words, more years no serious actions taken, more years of betrayal, more years of deceit, more years of excuses to take on the root cause of our problems, more years of enabling unhealthy experience, more years of blaming ourselves for not rising to the top of unhealthy game play, more years of accepting and tolerating unhealthy game design and Profession design, more years of forcing unhealthy mental mindset "if you can't beat them, join them", more years of half-truth, more years of playing with our hope and faith in them, more years of our participation to their mistreatments to our communities

 

It is time for the WvW community to be honest with ourselves, the time is to make the change for ourselves

 

It is time for us to Prove to ourselves that; 

 

We deserve better!!

Edited April 12, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Eudaimonia.8695]

I will keep playing Gunflame, thank you very much.

[Burnfall.9573]

On 4/12/2023 at 9:58 AM, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

I will keep playing Gunflame, thank you very much.

 

[Burnfall.9573]

 

All these Toxic Trash +one shot designs need to be removed and thrown into the trash. 

-players are being one shot everywhere and its beyond Unacceptable! for Anet to tolerate it-

call it meme all you want, if this is the Respect you want for your Reputation, so let it be.

(I am one step closer to Ncsoft new mmo)

Edited April 17, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Burnfall.9573]

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

Burn, I am feeling like a ping pong ball having to bounce between the everyone is too tanky to the everyone is too DPS posts. So for balance sakes, +1 from me. Liked the presentation in some of the others more I will admit. This presenter was a bit dry. But for trying to balance too much DPS vs too much defense, you get marks from me for helping to find a good balance.

[Burnfall.9573]

9 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Burn, I am feeling like a ping pong ball having to bounce between the everyone is too tanky to the everyone is too DPS posts. So for balance sakes, +1 from me. Liked the presentation in some of the others more I will admit. This presenter was a bit dry. But for trying to balance too much DPS vs too much defense, you get marks from me for helping to find a good balance.

 

Thank You! TheGrimm

 

[Chaba.5410]

7 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

This guy is in one of my matches.  Well, he's also "roaming" alongside QQ.  But where is the most broken celestial spellbreaker video?

[Sparetent.9756]

Nerf Warrior Gunflame

 

Sigh.....

 

I wish my Ranger did 30k instantly with her attacks....