Stunlock meta

[Anonynja.3172]

It's obnoxious, right? I mean, I prefer this over the bunker meta some years back. At least it's more engaging. But staring at my disabled skillbar after my one (or two, if I'm lucky) stunbreak is used when the power burst duo has six more CCs up their sleeves... blind gets cleansed, oh and they might have signet of might to ignore blocks for good measure.

TBH most of my wins, I'm bursting people down and they're probably annoyed. Most of my losses I'm dying to stunlock, rarely anything else. I can cleanse condi, I can line-of-sight range, I can Z-axis melee, I can bait traps. "One-shot" builds without stunlock I can successfully disengage from. Even 3v1s without stunlock I can retreat from. I'm no facetanker. But stunlock just makes me throw my hands up and wanna play something else.

Is stunlock understood to be OP right now or should I just git gud?

[Downstate.4697]

I died to a deadeye that marked me while also stealth attacking me twice. Was 6s daze. It also stripped 6 boons. Im kind of impressed in hindsight.

[shion.2084]

55 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

I died to a deadeye that marked me while also stealth attacking me twice. Was 6s daze. It also stripped 6 boons. Im kind of impressed in hindsight.

Ink?

[Myror.7521]

@Anonynja.3172 tho to me its good as it is. You can't stunbrake against x classes in Comb and CC classes are doing their Job rn.

[Essence Snow.3194]

Add stability to your build?

[Spellhunter.9675]

8 minutes ago, Essence Snow.3194 said:

stability

Corrupts into fear.

[Dr Meta.3158]

25 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Corrupts into fear.

Turned into a moa.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Have you tried: this?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

13 hours ago, Anonynja.3172 said:

It's obnoxious, right? I mean, I prefer this over the bunker meta some years back. At least it's more engaging. But staring at my disabled skillbar after my one (or two, if I'm lucky) stunbreak is used when the power burst duo has six more CCs up their sleeves... blind gets cleansed, oh and they might have signet of might to ignore blocks for good measure.

TBH most of my wins, I'm bursting people down and they're probably annoyed. Most of my losses I'm dying to stunlock, rarely anything else. I can cleanse condi, I can line-of-sight range, I can Z-axis melee, I can bait traps. "One-shot" builds without stunlock I can successfully disengage from. Even 3v1s without stunlock I can retreat from. I'm no facetanker. But stunlock just makes me throw my hands up and wanna play something else.

Is stunlock understood to be OP right now or should I just git gud?

This reads like "I win/can handle most of my interactions including situations where I am heavily outnumbered, but stunlock is difficult to fight against."

And that sounds like balance (or at least moving in the direction of it) to me. I bet that stunlock build that's giving you trouble can't do half of the things on that list. You're not supposed to win vs every interaction on one build, some of them you should need to build against. 

The better question to ask is "can I build in a way that makes the stunlock build managable?" If you can, great. If you can't, that's a problem. I bet ya can though. 

f u r t h e r m o r e.

consider that this feeling:

Quote

It's obnoxious, right?

Is what you've been putting the players of the class you're having difficulty with now through up to this point. 

Edited March 6 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This reads like "I win/can handle most of my interactions including situations where I am heavily outnumbered, but stunlock is difficult to fight against."

And that sounds like balance (or at least moving in the direction of it) to me. I bet that stunlock build that's giving you trouble can't do half of the things on that list. You're not supposed to win vs every interaction on one build, some of them you should need to build against. 

The better question to ask is "can I build in a way that makes the stunlock build managable?" If you can, great. If you can't, that's a problem. I bet ya can though. 

I think that this is something that people miss a lot. You can't build to cover all weaknesses. If people take some time to look across all the professions there are often choices within tiers that offer defense of one sort or another, but often they compete directly with each other. You can have impregnable defense versus 1 thing but be weak to others, okay defense against multiple things, or none at all depending on your build.

OP just didn't build to defend against CC and met a CC build.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think that this is something that people miss a lot. You can't build to cover all weaknesses. If people take some time to look across all the professions there are often choices within tiers that offer defense of one sort or another, but often they compete directly with each other. You can have impregnable defense versus 1 thing but be weak to others, okay defense against multiple things, or none at all depending on your build.

OP just didn't build to defend against CC and met a CC build.

 

People who don't acknowledge that they need to die/down/lose at some point/to some thing for the game mode to be fun (both for them and for the people they will inevitably face) unironically keep putting us into bunker meta.

Not saying that about OP, just general commentary. 

It would be funny if it didn't make PvP vomit players every time we hit it though. 

Edited March 6 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shao.7236]

There's only one profession in the game that can truly be obnoxious and that's Deadeye ability to mark twice no matter what buffs you have into a daze plus their utility to knock you down again with debuffs is a really really strong amount of control. You are quite literally unable to do anything in the process but evade while blocking is only doable if you can hit it fast after with a stunbreak, in my case I'm extremely weak to this playstyle because I have cast time on stunbreaks.

The amount of time the daze and knock down lasts is also pretty long, topped off with the cripple spam with a skill that hits efficiently harder per intitiative compared the other that should. It's no surprise that people hate Deadeye very much. While projectile hate is good against it, it doesn't stop them from using S/D and keep messing you up while you can't do much. It used to be worst with DJ being spammable and unblockable, but that was alleviated at least, just a few more things to fix like putting damage in the right place and giving some headroom for people to counter the very strong CC they have.

Otherwise, look at anything in the game aside Shock Aura spam which you can't do much about but definitely give the Tempest a hard time with conditions. You should always stunbreak only if you are in imminent danger of being hit hard. Otherwise let the CC be spammed, it doesn't deal damage anyway (for 95% of those skills).

[shion.2084]

42 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think that this is something that people miss a lot. You can't build to cover all weaknesses. If people take some time to look across all the professions there are often choices within tiers that offer defense of one sort or another, but often they compete directly with each other. You can have impregnable defense versus 1 thing but be weak to others, okay defense against multiple things, or none at all depending on your build.

OP just didn't build to defend against CC and met a CC build.

To be fair, not all classes have access to viable builds which include a defence against certain types of attacks.   I mean sure I could make an engi who might have some defence against CC, but it would be completely pointless to run because it couldn't actually contribute aside from not getting CC'd.

 

So I consider this misleading.

[shion.2084]

4 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

There's only one profession in the game that can truly be obnoxious and that's Deadeye ability to mark twice no matter what buffs you have into a daze plus their utility to knock you down again with debuffs is a really really strong amount of control. You are quite literally unable to do anything in the process but evade while blocking is only doable if you can hit it fast after with a stunbreak, in my case I'm extremely weak to this playstyle because I have cast time on stunbreaks.

The amount of time the daze and knock down lasts is also pretty long, topped off with the cripple spam with a skill that hits efficiently harder per intitiative compared the other that should. It's no surprise that people hate Deadeye very much. While projectile hate is good against it, it doesn't stop them from using S/D and keep messing you up while you can't do much. It used to be worst with DJ being spammable and unblockable, but that was alleviated at least, just a few more things to fix like putting damage in the right place and giving some headroom for people to counter the very strong CC they have.

Otherwise, look at anything in the game aside Shock Aura spam which you can't do much about but definitely give the Tempest a hard time with conditions. You should always stunbreak only if you are in imminent danger of being hit hard. Otherwise let the CC be spammed, it doesn't deal damage anyway (for 95% of those skills).

Then there's immob fun.  Oh sure it's not doing any damage... the flaming volcano under you is 🙂

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 minute ago, shion.2084 said:

To be fair, not all classes have access to viable builds which include a defence against certain types of attacks.   I mean sure I could make an engi who might have some defence against CC, but it would be completely pointless to run because it couldn't actually contribute aside from not getting CC'd..

 

Superspeed scrapper with bulwark gyro?  

Mechanist with shift signet?

 

This is largely correct though, engie is weak against cc. 

[shion.2084]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Superspeed scrapper with bulwark gyro?  

Mechanist with shift signet?

 

This is largely correct though, engie is weak against cc. 

Bulwarks not even used by the suicide bomber build...   My build uses it for the tiny bit of stability I get when I pop the dome, but that has to be done before you get CC'd and the cooldown on that stability does not make it reliable, and your giving up your reflect to use it for the stab.   The other problem is bulwark actually GIVES you damage in a team fight.   So no bulwark does not make you an engi that can handle CC in any sort of a team fight, and you'll be out CC'd by ele's, necrosis, and War SB's.   It's nice to secure a stomp, or for a down to the wire... if I just get this last hit attack.  Its most certainly not the answer to CC.

[Anonynja.3172]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think that this is something that people miss a lot. You can't build to cover all weaknesses. If people take some time to look across all the professions there are often choices within tiers that offer defense of one sort or another, but often they compete directly with each other. You can have impregnable defense versus 1 thing but be weak to others, okay defense against multiple things, or none at all depending on your build.

OP just didn't build to defend against CC and met a CC build.

I agree and this is valid. My class (revenant) is specifically countered by stunlock. I can avoid one stunlock berserker throughout a match or be prepared to dodge/block/blind their big moves. But that didn't inspire this post. Stunlock isn't a huge issue until it becomes the meta and gets multiplied by duos.

What I've been seeing lately is stunlock builds on multiple people per team. I run into burst duos who are specifically building one-shot stunlock builds. When a team comp has 2-4 people with multiple CCs and immob, you can't time dodges against multiple people at once. Teamfights become a foregone conclusion. Overall I think CC availability is too high. I bring a ton of multi-target CC on my herald. It's obnoxious but it's a dominant strategy, and I don't like it. Just part of the overall power creep I suppose. 

Of course, an organized party could respond to the meta, prioritize bringing stability and group stunbreaks... My real enemy might be duo queue existing alongside solo queue. An organized team that exploits high CC availability is simply unfair to place against a team of solos. I don't believe we have competitive integrity in sPvP, there's just too many ways ANet lets people manipulate matches.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Superspeed scrapper with bulwark gyro?  

Mechanist with shift signet?

 

This is largely correct though, engie is weak against cc. 

Flashbang? Gear Shield? Flash Shell? Smoke Vent? It isn't like Engi doesn't have several options, nor did I list the mall. But that guy missed the point, building all in for one defense type should leave you lacking in other areas.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, Anonynja.3172 said:

I agree and this is valid. My class (revenant) is specifically countered by stunlock. I can avoid one stunlock berserker throughout a match or be prepared to dodge/block/blind their big moves. But that didn't inspire this post. Stunlock isn't a huge issue until it becomes the meta and gets multiplied by duos.

What I've been seeing lately is stunlock builds on multiple people per team. I run into burst duos who are specifically building one-shot stunlock builds. When a team comp has 2-4 people with multiple CCs and immob, you can't time dodges against multiple people at once. Teamfights become a foregone conclusion. Overall I think CC availability is too high. I bring a ton of multi-target CC on my herald. It's obnoxious but it's a dominant strategy, and I don't like it. Just part of the overall power creep I suppose. 

Of course, an organized party could respond to the meta, prioritize bringing stability and group stunbreaks... My real enemy might be duo queue existing alongside solo queue. An organized team that exploits high CC availability is simply unfair to place against a team of solos. I don't believe we have competitive integrity in sPvP, there's just too many ways ANet lets people manipulate matches.

This is the issue ultimately. If a team is stacked with one type of build that hard coutners enough of the other team, there isn't much to that can be done. DuoQ is a part of that sure. 

[shion.2084]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Flashbang? Gear Shield? Flash Shell? Smoke Vent? It isn't like Engi doesn't have several options, nor did I list the mall. But that guy missed the point, building all in for one defense type should leave you lacking in other areas.

He well do those things do against say thunderclap or spare capacitor or blast gyro

Edited March 6 by shion.2084

[shion.2084]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

This is the issue ultimately. If a team is stacked with one type of build that hard coutners enough of the other team, there isn't much to that can be done. DuoQ is a part of that sure. 

Yeah in terms of duos, I’ve seen a number of immob/burst duos.  It’s pretty frustrating to solo against a coordinated attack like that.  Some Druid and I think tempests doing immob

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

20 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

He well do those things do against say thunderclap or spare capacitor or blast gyro

Same as any other ability when the target is blinded. Now if they had shredder gyro going at the same time that is a different issue, but then you'd be better off cc'ing them first rather than react to being cc'd.

[shion.2084]

19 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Same as any other ability when the target is blinded. Now if they had shredder gyro going at the same time that is a different issue, but then you'd be better off cc'ing them first rather than react to being cc'd.

So spare capacitor pulse is affected by blind?