Five-Person-Content Legendary Armor

[Stx.4857]

Yes, forcing players to play content they don’t enjoy is fantastic game design!  Brilliant.  More options is almost always a good thing.  
 

I see a lot of people saying ‘don’t do it’.  But no one is saying why.  Interesting!

[Sigmoid.7082]

10 minutes ago, KevinEvo.7061 said:

These posts are getting tiresome and ridiculous. So far in the past few days on here I have seen:

 

1. Raid armour is too hard to get

2. Spirit shards are too hard to get

3. Aurene legendaries are too hard to get

4. Skyscale is too hard to get

5. EoD map completion is too hard to get

6. I'm sure I've missed a few

 

THIS IS A GAME. THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SOME SORT OF GOAL/SLIGHT FRICTION TO AQUIRING STUFF. If you get everything with almost no effort instantly, it's not a game, it's just a checklist you fill out. You must have no idea how easy mode this game is already. All of the previously mentioned points are not that hard if you just play the game. There is 10 years of content to play through and you want it all now.

 

 

Having to play the game to earn rewards, and god forbid those rewards be unique to a specific content or game mode, is something that is broken and needs to be fixed...or so many of those posts on the forum tend to go these days. 

[Woof.8246]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Sounds like an awful idea, play more of the game's content for more rewards.

I think is a wonderful idea , where people can choose  multiply content and if they choose they can fix in 1x (like dungeons) for 5 years

[vares.8457]

1 minute ago, Stx.4857 said:

Yes, forcing players to play content they don’t enjoy is fantastic game design!  

No one is forcing anyone. Legendary armor is a completely optional long term goal, not a necessity. 

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Yes, forcing players to play content they don’t enjoy is fantastic game design!  Brilliant.  More options is almost always a good thing.  
 

I see a lot of people saying ‘don’t do it’.  But no one is saying why.  Interesting!

How are you somehow forced into anything? What exactly can't you play without full legendary gear?

[Woof.8246]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

How are you somehow forced into anything? What exactly can't you play without full legendary gear?

Aren't you forcing people to join the content they don't like  ?

With my idea they can choose whatever they like , like for example Dungeons (doing twice will allow them to get after 5 years)

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Woof.8246 said:

I think is a wonderful idea , where people can choose  multiply content and if they choose they can fix in 1x (like dungeons) for 5 years

You're complaining about wvw acquisition being too long and come up with an idea of "replaying dungeons for 5 years" as a reasonable one? That makes 0 sense. See, if you'd be truthful in your justification for your wants, you at least wouldn't have a problem with constantly opposing your own posts.

Just now, Woof.8246 said:

Aren't you forcing people to join the content they don't like  ?

With my idea they can choose whatever they like , like for example Dungeons (doing twice will allow them to get after 5 years)

This is the question asked: "How are you somehow forced into anything? What exactly can't you play without full legendary gear? "

You didn't respond to it, please try again.

[Woof.8246]

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You're complaining about wvw acquisition being too long and come up with an idea of "replaying dungeons for 5 years" as a reasonable one? That makes 0 sense. See, if you'd be truthful in your justification for your wants, you at least wouldn't have a problem with constantly opposing your own posts.

This is the question asked: "How are you somehow forced into anything? What exactly can't you play without full legendary gear? "

You didn't respond to it, please try again.

Before the tantrum starts let me use simply words :
You tell people that they are not forced to get the armor , but you turn around and tell me that they should join their appropriate content . That's called "forcing".

This is where i come and say , you can get from various modes (even dungeons)

 

The Black Lion will offer daily quest : Do 2x dungeons , or Strikes .

Afterwards the system will ask you to join WvW/Raid/PvP to keep getting awarded , then the system will ask you if you want to stay or go back in daily dungeons.

Otherwise you can do the 2x daily instances and get the armor after 5 years , or get directly into the the appropriate mode you love (but will miss on the Void Weapon , because it will be avialiable only for 8 months and it will show up in the next expanion . but the points remain and you can get the Void weapon after 3 expansions)

Edited March 6, 2023 by Woof.8246

[mythical.6315]

7 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

You tell people that they are not forced to get the armor , but you turn around and tell me that they should join their appropriate content . That's called "forcing".

Please provide an example of where legendary armor is a requirement in GW2?

Edited March 6, 2023 by mythical.6315

[Sobx.1758]

13 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

You tell people that they are not forced to get the armor ,

Yup, because they are not. And at this point I suspect you know it's true, which is why you still didn't respond the question you've quoted: "How are you somehow forced into anything? What exactly can't you play without full legendary gear?" 
Right?

13 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

but you turn around and tell me that they should join their appropriate content . That's called "forcing".

No, what I repeatedly write is that you can play broader content of the game to get more rewards and if you don't want to then you're still perfectly fine without them due to what they are. That is what I write, not what you just made up to fit your "oppressed" narrative.

Quick reminder, this is the question you quoted and still didn't answer:
"How are you somehow forced into anything? What exactly can't you play without full legendary gear?"
Stop running from it, it only shows you know you're wrong since you're not really forced into anything.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Stx.4857]

You don’t need legendary armor to raid either so why is it obtainable in raid?  See how that logic falls apart?  
 

Players who enjoy raiding have an avenue to get legendary armor.  Players who enjoy spvp and wvw also have avenues.  What about players who enjoy open world content (really the backbone of GW2 PvE btw), or enjoy 5 man content but not raids?  What harm does adding legendary armor to those parts of the game cause?

 

I’ll repeat myself because it’s amusing.  Still no one can give a reason why adding more avenues of achieving legendary armor to the game is bad.  You keep saying the same tired non-arguments of..

”You don’t need it” or “just do other content”.   
 

I’ll end by saying that NO ONE *needs* legendary armor.  Players want it because of the skins, or the convenience of free transmutes, infinite stat combination changes, and all the other quality of life from the armory.  

[Sigmoid.7082]

31 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Yes, forcing players to play content they don’t enjoy is fantastic game design!  Brilliant.  More options is almost always a good thing.  
 

I see a lot of people saying ‘don’t do it’.  But no one is saying why.  Interesting!

There will never be enough options to prevent threads like this one. There will always be something that someone doesn't like, or want, to do. Anet isn't going to, and should not have to, add alternative after alternative after alterative for players want to get something but lacking want to do the content. So where do they stop? Where do they draw the line?

 

Example. Look at the skyscale. OW leg would very likely contain jumping puzzles. Anet literally added an option to avoid the jumping puzzle but in the thread about it being to expensive / grindy the replies to "you can buy the treat" are "no why should I have to? Its unfair! Add another way for me to do this, its impossible because [insert reason which essential equates to I just don't want to do it]". If they added OW leg there is always going to be something like this.

 

There is also this massive conflation of need and want. There is a want for the item but the way its portrayed is that it is an absolute necessity, which is very far from the truth, that is being kept from people.

 

"But why should they not be able to get something if they want it?" is an argument that comes up all the time but "If I want it I should be able to get it and if I cannot then things need to be changed until I can" just screams entitlement to me.

 

I have no issue against another PvE legendary armour as long as the acquisition method is suitably as difficult and as time consuming at the current but I have seen no suggestion that does not essentially equate to "give it to me easier" as something being as difficult and as time consuming as now, but in OW, would result in threads like this anyways and not solve the problem because there will always be "something" in the way. More, equivalently difficult and time-consuming, options are fine but that's not really what I have seen people asking or suggesting every single time this comes up.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Sigmoid.7082

[Sobx.1758]

12 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

You don’t need legendary armor to raid either

Who said anyone needs it? It's optional because it's optional. Want more optional rewrads? Play more of the game's content. Don't try to invent something nobody here said because you have no justification for what you said earlier. You're not forced to get it, nobody is.

12 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

 See how that logic falls apart?  

It doesn't, because what you commmented on doesn't have much to do with what you've been asked (and what you've claimed).

 

12 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

I’ll repeat myself because it’s amusing.  Still no one can give a reason why adding more avenues of achieving legendary armor to the game is bad.  You keep saying the same tired non-arguments of..

Welp, to each their own, but the only amusing thing here I see is that you apparently think you somehow responded to what was being said, but when you re-read the question, your claim about "being forced into something" and your response in this very post... you'll quickly realize that you didn't respond to the question and simply pretended I said something I really didn't.

 

12 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

I’ll end by saying that NO ONE *needs* legendary armor.

Again, nobody said that, you invented this claim because you had nothing relevant to respond after your "why are you forcing me?!?" claim.

12 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

 Players want it because of the skins, or the convenience of free transmutes, infinite stat combination changes, and all the other quality of life from the armory.  

That's great. I want a ferrari. I very obviously by no means need it, but I WANT IT. So give it to me. Don't force me to spend money on it.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[vares.8457]

8 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Players who enjoy raiding have an avenue to get legendary armor.  Players who enjoy spvp and wvw also have avenues.  What about players who enjoy open world content (really the backbone of GW2 PvE btw), or enjoy 5 man content but not raids?  What harm does adding legendary armor to those parts of the game cause?

Just because there is a legendary armor in PvE, WvW and PvP doesn’t mean there also has to be one in open world. And what about festivals? There is no legendary armor for giving gifts to the orphans. 
Open World already is the area of the game with the most legendaries: all the weapons and three trinkets. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by vares.8457

[Stx.4857]

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Who said anyone needs it? It's optional because it's optional. Want more optional rewrads? Play more of the game's content. Don't try to invent something nobody here said because you have no justification for what you said earlier. You're not forced to get it, nobody is.

It doesn't, because what you commmented on doesn't have much to do with what you've been asked (and what you've claimed).

 

Welp, to each their own, but the only amusing thing here I see is that you apparently think you somehow responded to what was being said, but when you re-read the question, your claim about "being forced into something" and your response in this very post... you'll quickly realize that you didn't respond to the question and simply pretended I said something I really didn't.

Still can’t give a good reason against the idea in the OP.  👍 

[Stx.4857]

3 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

Just because there is a legendary armor in PvE, WvW and PvP doesn’t mean there also has to be one in open world. And what about festivals? There is no legendary armor for giving gifts to the orphans. 
Open World already is the area of the game with the most legendaries: all the weapons and three trinkets. 

Hey I fully support adding unique legendary weapons or trinkets to raids, strikes, any form of content.  That’s what this game is all about is skins and horizontal progression.  
 

what I find strange is the number of people who think adding additional options to either fractals or open world is a bad idea, but can’t say why.  

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Still can’t give a good reason against the idea in the OP.  👍 

Still can't respond to anything you've quoted aside of inventing a strawman I didn't say 😄 Gee, man.

And besides, what do you mean still can't give a reason?

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Dungeons? Sounds like a bad idea. Fractals? Already have back item. Play more of the game's content to get more rewards. If you don't have an issue with high fractals, raids should probably be within your capabilities too.

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Essentially you can play fractals to get legendary backpack, strikes+raids+some of the other pve required content for legendary armor or make your own "daily/weekly/whatever rotation of content" and keep playing all of the above +wvw+pvp and pick parts of armor from each of them. So if you want to go all over the place and still be rewarded for it, you basically already have that option. You don't need to keep getting the same currency, legendary armor pieces from differend modes work with each other all the same and then you can still reskin them however you want. So, frankly, I don't see you point here at all.

Looks like much better reasoning than your constant dodging, inventing a strawman and repeating "but why not?" ?  🤔

 

But definitely start from going back to the question you dodged here and please focus on responding this time: How are you somehow forced into anything? What exactly can't you play without full legendary gear?

Then you can start addressing points which were already made in this thread, but you simply avoided and after that... you'll be free to "require more reasons against it".

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[vares.8457]

7 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Hey I fully support adding unique legendary weapons or trinkets to raids, strikes, any form of content.  That’s what this game is all about is skins and horizontal progression.  
 

what I find strange is the number of people who think adding additional options to either fractals or open world is a bad idea, but can’t say why.  

And I disagree. To become full legendary I think you should have to play a variety of content, not just one area of the game.
For example get your weapons in open world, your armor in raids, your backpack in PvP or fractals and your rings in WvW. 
 

Edited March 6, 2023 by vares.8457

[Tails.9372]

14 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

I find strange is the number of people who think adding additional options to either fractals or open world is a bad idea, but can’t say why.

It's contrarianism for the pure sake of contrarianism. If they were actually principled about the things they claim to be their viewpoints then they would also advocate for other changes that these things necessitate which is ofc. something they have never done and will never do.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Tails.9372

[Stx.4857]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Still can't respond to anything you've quoted aside of inventing a strawman I didn't say 😄 Gee, man.

And besides, what do you mean still can't give a reason?

Looks like much better reasoning than your constant dodging, inventing a strawman and repeating "but why not?" ?  🤔

 

But definitely start from going back to the question you dodged here and please focus on responding this time: How are you somehow forced into anything? What exactly can't you play without full legendary gear?

Then you can start addressing points which were already made in this thread, but you simply avoided and after that... you'll be free to "require more reasons against it".

 

Do I really need to spell out for you what it means to be forced to do something?  If you want legendary armor, you are forced to either spvp, wvw, or raid.  Isn't that painfully obvious what I meant?  Is this the part where you jump to your enlightening argument as to *why* its a bad idea?  Other than, of course, the revelatory "No, cuz you can already get it elsewhere".

 

Thank goodness A-Net doesn't share that ideology.  Can you imagine?  A-Nets like, should we add more legendaries to the game?  Nah, you can already get them from core, why bother?  Should we add legendary armor to spvp?  Nah, you can get it in wvw, just play more content you may not enjoy.  

[Stx.4857]

1 hour ago, Tails.9372 said:

It's contrarianism for the pure sake of contrarianism. If they were actually principled about the things they claim to be their viewpoints then they would also advocate for other changes that these things necessitate which is ofc. something they have never done and will never do.

Ive noticed that a lot on these forums, with any number of ideas.  People could bring up any idea to add something to the game, no matter what it is or how unimpactful it would be on others, and the confused brigade rolls in to shoot it down.

[Stx.4857]

1 hour ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

There will never be enough options to prevent threads like this one. There will always be something that someone doesn't like, or want, to do. Anet isn't going to, and should not have to, add alternative after alternative after alterative for players want to get something but lacking want to do the content. So where do they stop? Where do they draw the line?

 

Example. Look at the skyscale. OW leg would very likely contain jumping puzzles. Anet literally added an option to avoid the jumping puzzle but in the thread about it being to expensive / grindy the replies to "you can buy the treat" are "no why should I have to? Its unfair! Add another way for me to do this, its impossible because [insert reason which essential equates to I just don't want to do it]". If they added OW leg there is always going to be something like this.

 

There is also this massive conflation of need and want. There is a want for the item but the way its portrayed is that it is an absolute necessity, which is very far from the truth, that is being kept from people.

 

"But why should they not be able to get something if they want it?" is an argument that comes up all the time but "If I want it I should be able to get it and if I cannot then things need to be changed until I can" just screams entitlement to me.

 

I have no issue against another PvE legendary armour as long as the acquisition method is suitably as difficult and as time consuming at the current but I have seen no suggestion that does not essentially equate to "give it to me easier" as something being as difficult and as time consuming as now, but in OW, would result in threads like this anyways and not solve the problem because there will always be "something" in the way. More, equivalently difficult and time-consuming, options are fine but that's not really what I have seen people asking or suggesting every single time this comes up.

 

 

Thank you for the constructive post.   I feel like since this game is all about strictly horizontal progression, the whole need vs want thing really doesn’t exist here.  You don’t need anything gear quality wise in this game, it’s all cosmetic or in the case of legendaries, quality of life.  I don’t get the entitled argument either, because no one is asking for the specific legendary skins to be obtainable outside raids etc, just any armor set at all. 

[Sobx.1758]

39 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Do I really need to spell out for you what it means to be forced to do something?  If you want legendary armor, you are forced to either spvp, wvw, or raid.  Isn't that painfully obvious what I meant?  Is this the part where you jump to your enlightening argument as to *why* its a bad idea?  Other than, of course, the revelatory "No, cuz you can already get it elsewhere".

You wouldnt' need to explain what "being forced to" mean if you weren't trying to re-invent the meaning of that word here in an attempt to pretend you're somehow forced to get a legendary armor. That could be the case if it somehow locked you out of playing the game or its content in some way, but it doesn't. So you're not forced into anything -if you don't want to play more of the game's content you are free to not do it and still be perfectly fine.

I already wrote why this is a bad idea and you, again, didn't respond to anything. Somehow you still require more reasons despite avoiding the ones already given.

Like, really, why do you keep dodging what you quote? Didn't go how you hoped it will go? Your invented strawman didn't catch anyone off-guard?

 

37 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Ive noticed that a lot on these forums, with any number of ideas.  People could bring up any idea to add something to the game, no matter what it is or how unimpactful it would be on others, and the confused brigade rolls in to shoot it down.

Plenty of ideas "catch on" within the community. The issue is that a lot of the ideas are bad, baseless or simply aim at making everything easier and faster, which often is a weak justification to make a change in an mmorpg. If you want to paint it as "people are disagreeing just because!" then you're fooling yourself here.

 

6 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Thank you for the constructive post.   I feel like since this game is all about strictly horizontal progression, the whole need vs want thing really doesn’t exist here.  You don’t need anything gear quality wise in this game, it’s all cosmetic or in the case of legendaries, quality of life.

It does, since it's about stats of the gear. And since legendary = ascended, when I say "you don't need it", I don't mean that you can somehow scrape the barrel of the content if you really try, it means you can literally still have all BiS gear without having legendaries. And that's exactly why they're optional, because they don't increase the player's power.
The take you're presenting here, saying "you don't need anything gear quality wise in this game" is also wrong. The thing is that if anything locks you out of any content, it ends at ascended tier.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Stx.4857]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You wouldnt' need to explain what "being forced to" mean if you weren't trying to re-invent the meaning of that word here in an attempt to pretend you're somehow forced to get a legendary armor. That could be the case if it somehow locked you out of playing the game or its content in some way, but it doesn't. So you're not forced into anything -if you don't want to play more of the game's content you are free to not do it and still be perfectly fine.

I already wrote why this is a bad idea and you, again, didn't respond to anything. Somehow you still require more reasons despite avoiding the ones already given.

Like, really, why do you keep dodging what you quote? Didn't go how you hoped it will go? Your invented strawman didn't catch anyone off-guard?

I have no idea what you think I’m trying to dodge or what you think is bad about adding other avenues to acquiring legendaries.  Substitute the word forced for whatever other word suits you, but the point stands.  *If* you want legendary armor, you have to either raid, spvp, or wvw.  

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

I have no idea what you think I’m trying to dodge

1:

2 (which tbh also contains "1" right at the bottom of it) :

Why I think you dodge? Because you don't respond to anything, all you did in a ""response"" to me is invent a strawman to claim I said something I didn't (and after I pointed it out, you ignored the whole post again, just to write "you have no reason!" -yes, I did write plenty of reasoning behind what i think about it, you're just conssitently avoiding it for some weird reason and... I guess demand different ones?). How is this not supposed to be dodging?

 

6 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

*If* you want legendary armor, you have to either raid, spvp, or wvw.  

And as I wrote in one of the posts above:

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's great. I want a ferrari. I very obviously by no means need it, but I WANT IT. So give it to me. Don't force me to spend money on it.

I guess it means I'm forced to buy ferrari, because IF I want a ferrari, I need to buy it. That's the backwards reasoning you're seemingly using here. I don't need it. But I want it. So I'm forced to buy it!

Edited March 7, 2023 by Sobx.1758