Five-Person-Content Legendary Armor

[Stx.4857]

I responded to that multiple times.  Not needing something isn’t a reason for not being able to get it.  Raiders don’t need legendary armor either, but they can get it.  That argument has no weight.  

[Dr Meta.3158]

We need legendary armor for super adventure box.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

3 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

Yes, forcing players to play content they don’t enjoy is fantastic game design!  Brilliant.  More options is almost always a good thing.  
 

I see a lot of people saying ‘don’t do it’.  But no one is saying why.  Interesting!

I suspect you're being sarcastic here, but I'm going to have to say what nobody else will:  Yes, it is good game design.  The raids in this game are fairly well designed to be fun, and more importantly to be challenging.  The important thing here is "challenging."  They "challenge" the player to develop the interpersonal skills to handle raids, as well as the mechanical knowledge of the game to understand everything that is going on.  This includes handling the LFG system, as well as combat mechanics.  These skills are good for a player to know, because they allow the player to handle tasks that they otherwise struggle with, as well as assist other players who are not at the same level of understanding as they are.  In the old pre-internet days, we called this building character.

It is good game design to have features that encourage players to learn the deeper mechanics of the game.  The argument that everything should be handed out easily because players might not want to do it all falls to the same statement:  so what?  Most things in life are things that you don't want to do, but nonetheless end up doing because it is for the betterment of yourself and others.  If a player seriously wants legendary armor, but also seriously doesn't want to do raids, then it is on that player to look deep inside of themselves and take a serious evaluation of their predicament.  The incentive system has been explained many times by now, so that player needs to really think on how much they actually want legendary armor, and what they're willing to do to get it.  Once they've resolved to either get the armor and do raids, or not do raids and not get the armor through that way, then they should commit to that resolution.  One desire will outweigh the others, and it is not Anets responsibility or capability to resolve every single petty contradictory entitlement that each player gets, especially at the expensive the entire rewards incentive system they've already built.

Build the character and do the raids, or don't.  The choice is simple.  

[Stx.4857]

33 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I suspect you're being sarcastic here, but I'm going to have to say what nobody else will:  Yes, it is good game design.  The raids in this game are fairly well designed to be fun, and more importantly to be challenging.  The important thing here is "challenging."  They "challenge" the player to develop the interpersonal skills to handle raids, as well as the mechanical knowledge of the game to understand everything that is going on.  This includes handling the LFG system, as well as combat mechanics.  These skills are good for a player to know, because they allow the player to handle tasks that they otherwise struggle with, as well as assist other players who are not at the same level of understanding as they are.  In the old pre-internet days, we called this building character.

It is good game design to have features that encourage players to learn the deeper mechanics of the game.  The argument that everything should be handed out easily because players might not want to do it all falls to the same statement:  so what?  Most things in life are things that you don't want to do, but nonetheless end up doing because it is for the betterment of yourself and others.  If a player seriously wants legendary armor, but also seriously doesn't want to do raids, then it is on that player to look deep inside of themselves and take a serious evaluation of their predicament.  The incentive system has been explained many times by now, so that player needs to really think on how much they actually want legendary armor, and what they're willing to do to get it.  Once they've resolved to either get the armor and do raids, or not do raids and not get the armor through that way, then they should commit to that resolution.  One desire will outweigh the others, and it is not Anets responsibility or capability to resolve every single petty contradictory entitlement that each player gets, especially at the expensive the entire rewards incentive system they've already built.

Build the character and do the raids, or don't.  The choice is simple.  

Fun is subjective.  Not everyone thinks raiding is fun.  And if you’re not interested in raiding, the skills you speak of like combat mechanics can be learned elsewhere, like open world.  The LFG tool in this game is archaic, I’m not sure any valuable skills can be learned from that.  The rest of your statement is just coming from the perspective that you should have to raid for legendary gear, which is a common although outdated mentality that instanced pve content should automatically have the best rewards, to which I would simply say, this isn’t classic wow.  This games best and most unique content is its open world system and beautiful maps which are built around gliding, versatile mounts, and events system which no other game has.  And since when have legendary items in this game ever been about a challenge?  They have always been about time investment, farming, and collections.  Oh and by the way, your post reeks of entitlement.  

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

1 hour ago, Stx.4857 said:

Fun is subjective.  Not everyone thinks raiding is fun.  And if you’re not interested in raiding, the skills you speak of like combat mechanics can be learned elsewhere, like open world.  The LFG tool in this game is archaic, I’m not sure any valuable skills can be learned from that.  The rest of your statement is just coming from the perspective that you should have to raid for legendary gear, which is a common although outdated mentality that instanced pve content should automatically have the best rewards, to which I would simply say, this isn’t classic wow.  This games best and most unique content is its open world system and beautiful maps which are built around gliding, versatile mounts, and events system which no other game has.  And since when have legendary items in this game ever been about a challenge?  They have always been about time investment, farming, and collections.  Oh and by the way, your post reeks of entitlement.  

Your entire post is just "Nuh-uh' and "No, YOU!"  I'll just reiterate that all you've said is wrong, and I am right.  

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Which is solved by adding... new armor skin.

Nah.  If it required something like fractal god, all CM titles, and all individual fractal levels  finished, it'd actually take about as long as raid armor before currencies specific to the armor are considered.

[Beddo.1907]

I'm fine with pure mats+open world achievement/s legendary armor, as long as Raid, PvP and WvW are cheaper in comparison in return for more work.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Beddo.1907

[Einsof.1457]

9 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I suspect you're being sarcastic here, but I'm going to have to say what nobody else will:  Yes, it is good game design.  The raids in this game are fairly well designed to be fun, and more importantly to be challenging.  The important thing here is "challenging."  They "challenge" the player to develop the interpersonal skills to handle raids, as well as the mechanical knowledge of the game to understand everything that is going on.  This includes handling the LFG system, as well as combat mechanics.  These skills are good for a player to know, because they allow the player to handle tasks that they otherwise struggle with, as well as assist other players who are not at the same level of understanding as they are.  In the old pre-internet days, we called this building character.

It is good game design to have features that encourage players to learn the deeper mechanics of the game.  The argument that everything should be handed out easily because players might not want to do it all falls to the same statement:  so what?  Most things in life are things that you don't want to do, but nonetheless end up doing because it is for the betterment of yourself and others.  If a player seriously wants legendary armor, but also seriously doesn't want to do raids, then it is on that player to look deep inside of themselves and take a serious evaluation of their predicament.  The incentive system has been explained many times by now, so that player needs to really think on how much they actually want legendary armor, and what they're willing to do to get it.  Once they've resolved to either get the armor and do raids, or not do raids and not get the armor through that way, then they should commit to that resolution.  One desire will outweigh the others, and it is not Anets responsibility or capability to resolve every single petty contradictory entitlement that each player gets, especially at the expensive the entire rewards incentive system they've already built.

Build the character and do the raids, or don't.  The choice is simple.  

I stood up and clapped after reading this. Anet needs to pin this to the top of the forum. 

[Einsof.1457]

9 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

Fun is subjective.  Not everyone thinks raiding is fun.  And if you’re not interested in raiding, the skills you speak of like combat mechanics can be learned elsewhere, like open world.  The LFG tool in this game is archaic, I’m not sure any valuable skills can be learned from that.  The rest of your statement is just coming from the perspective that you should have to raid for legendary gear, which is a common although outdated mentality that instanced pve content should automatically have the best rewards, to which I would simply say, this isn’t classic wow.  This games best and most unique content is its open world system and beautiful maps which are built around gliding, versatile mounts, and events system which no other game has.  And since when have legendary items in this game ever been about a challenge?  They have always been about time investment, farming, and collections.  Oh and by the way, your post reeks of entitlement.  

Who is forcing you to play what you clearly don't like?

[Biziut.3594]

If there would be ow/5man content lege armor, I would never be encouraged to give raids a try, I wouldn't fell in love with them and I wouldn't meet many great peoples, especially from my static. So I am glad it is the way it is. 

On the side note I just want to mention that Raid armor is also OW armor since it requires HoT mats and metas.

[vares.8457]

3 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

If there would be ow/5man content lege armor, I would never be encouraged to give raids a try, I wouldn't fell in love with them and I wouldn't meet many great peoples, especially from my static. So I am glad it is the way it is. 

On the side note I just want to mention that Raid armor is also OW armor since it requires HoT mats and metas.

Absolutely. Legendary armor is a great motivation to play more aspects of the game than just open world. 

[Stx.4857]

15 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

If there would be ow/5man content lege armor, I would never be encouraged to give raids a try, I wouldn't fell in love with them and I wouldn't meet many great peoples, especially from my static. So I am glad it is the way it is. 

On the side note I just want to mention that Raid armor is also OW armor since it requires HoT mats and metas.

1) That’s great that you found out you liked raiding.  Happy for you 
2) Not everyone likes raiding (and they know that)

3) No one is saying to remove legendary armor from raiding, it will still be there with the unique and awesome skins to motivate people. 

[vares.8457]

4 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

2) Not everyone likes raiding (and they know that)

And that’s fine, they don’t have to raid. There are two other ways to get legendary armor, in WvW and PvP.  But if you refuse to play the content, should you get the reward? I don’t think so. 

[Bakeneko.5826]

19 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Dungeons? Sounds like a bad idea. Fractals? Already have back item. Play more of the game's content to get more rewards. If you don't have an issue with high fractals, raids should probably be within your capabilities too.

Fractals has back item, raids have 2 legendary slots - armour and trinket. Also, having more ways to get leggy armour would be nice (strikes or fractals)

 

Edit: and before anyone says "raids needs more skill" - enough time has passed for people doing only escort, outside of needed achievements, could craft leggy set, leggy trinket and have some LI left over. I know some of you raiders (most) will be bottom hurt due to "inequality" you had to experience, as newer players needs less "effort" to get legendary armour, but is it such a big problem, as you paint it to be?

Edited March 7, 2023 by Bakeneko.5826

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

I responded to that multiple times.

Yeah, after claiming you're forced into something, you responded you're not really forced into something. (but you still didn't respond to anything else, while claiming people don't give you any reasoning) So what other "argument" do you have here?

13 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

 Not needing something isn’t a reason for not being able to get it.

But you are able to get it. You just don't want to do it "because no".

13 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

 Raiders don’t need legendary armor either, but they can get it.  That argument has no weight.  

Nobody said they did, what are you responding to? Nothing? Just casually going back to the strawman you created earlier? 🤦‍♂️

 

 

8 hours ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

Nah.  If it required something like fractal god, all CM titles, and all individual fractal levels  finished, it'd actually take about as long as raid armor before currencies specific to the armor are considered.

What do you mean "nah"? You said you want an armor skin that matches the backpiece. This is not solved by adding whatever armor rarity, that's solved by adding an armor skin set in the game and that fulfills your wish of "having matching skin". So let me ask again: what do you mean "nah"?

Edited March 7, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Stx.4857]

57 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

And that’s fine, they don’t have to raid. There are two other ways to get legendary armor, in WvW and PvP.  But if you refuse to play the content, should you get the reward? I don’t think so. 

Which isn’t an argument that holds any weight.  By your logic here, if they removed legendary armor from raids that would be okay, because you could just play PvP right?

 

by that same logic, they should have never added gen2,3, or variants to gen 3 legendary weapons right?  Legendary weapons were already in the game, so just play the old content right?

 

I raided for a long time in WoW, I have no interest in doing so here.  And how do you know I’m not working towards legendary armor in PvP?  I love spvp.   I’d rather be playing open world maps, so that is the content I would like legendary armor added for.  The Op likes doing 5 man content, so that’s why he wants legendary armor for that.  I’m sure at some point players asked for legendary armor to be added to spvp.  What is wrong with rewards being available in all game modes?  It seems to me like you just have the old school mentality that good rewards should only come from instanced pve which just doesn’t apply to this game.  

[Stx.4857]

1 hour ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Fractals has back item, raids have 2 legendary slots - armour and trinket. Also, having more ways to get leggy armour would be nice (strikes or fractals)

 

Edit: and before anyone says "raids needs more skill" - enough time has passed for people doing only escort, outside of needed achievements, could craft leggy set, leggy trinket and have some LI left over. I know some of you raiders (most) will be bottom hurt due to "inequality" you had to experience, as newer players needs less "effort" to get legendary armour, but is it such a big problem, as you paint it to be?

It’s an old school mentality that raiding needs rewards to be worth doing.  Which I think is silly.  You should do something because it’s fun, not just for some artificial motivation.  

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

It’s an old school mentality that raiding needs rewards to be worth doing.  Which I think is silly.  You should do something because it’s fun, not just for some artificial motivation.  

...so why do you want a reward  added to some other content? You should do that other content because it is fun, not just for some artificial motivation.

[vares.8457]

11 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

It seems to me like you just have the old school mentality that good rewards should only come from instanced pve which just doesn’t apply to this game.  

I don’t. I actually made my first legendary armor set in PvP and the second and third in WvW. I just recently started raiding. 
There are a lot of good rewards in open world, it has the most legendaries and is overall the most rewarding area of the game. 
 

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

It’s an old school mentality that raiding needs rewards to be worth doing.  Which I think is silly.  You should do something because it’s fun, not just for some artificial motivation.  

That's not what it is and it seems you don't understand what you're talking about. Go check the legendary armor release news page for some added context. It's an optional reward, play more of the game's content and get it or don't and you'll still be fine. 🤷‍♂️ 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Stx.4857]

5 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

I don’t. I actually made my first legendary armor set in PvP and the second and third in WvW. I just recently started raiding. 
There are a lot of good rewards in open world, it has the most legendaries and is overall the most rewarding area of the game. 
 

 

 

So then it basically just comes down to what the confusion brigade all parrot.  The reason for not adding more options is… “no, go raid”.  

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

The reason for not adding more options is… “no, go raid”.  

Spot on! When people say "you have 3 paths to get that optional reward", they obviously mean "3 paths through raids". Nothing escapes you! 🙄

You sure love your bad strawman attempts while actively avoiding what people actually wrote.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[vares.8457]

Just now, Stx.4857 said:

So then it basically just comes down to what the confusion brigade all parrot.  The reason for not adding more options is… “no, go raid”.  

That’s nonsense.
Go play a variety of content the game has to offer. Get your legendary weapons in open world, your armor in raids, PvP or WvW, your backpack in fractals, PvP or WvW, your trinkets in raids, open world, PvP and WvW. 

[Stx.4857]

1 minute ago, vares.8457 said:

That’s nonsense.
Go play a variety of content the game has to offer. Get your legendary weapons in open world, your armor in raids, PvP or WvW, your backpack in fractals, PvP or WvW, your trinkets in raids, open world, PvP and WvW. 

Yes you’ve said that.  🙄

[Xerac.1542]

Ngl, at this point I would just love Anet for adding a pure OW way to get legendary armor. 

Development cost and time aside, even give it some nice skin. 

Take the recipe from PvE (raid) armor and swap LI to something like elegy mosaics. Adjust cost to drop rate. 

Slap on 2 achievement lines for the precursor armor, make those a trip through various lw metas. 

Done. I don't care if you get your legendary armor. I am interested in the new posts that would spawn from this and all the new "builds" people create with an unlimited amount of stats. 

 

To OP:  Dungeon armor won't happen because that would draw attention to a dropped part of the game that would maybe need some touch ups to be that big of a part in this new reward.