Scrapper is busted

[DanSH.6143]

I'm not sure what changed with scrapper exactly, but it is just dealing insane amounts of damage from stealth. they seem to have a lot of sustain and mobility aswell. 

I think the game works best when high damage is telegraphed, getting hit by 15k dmg from stealth by a superspeeding scrapper just doesn't feel fair.

[shion.2084]

The scrappers that can stealth bomb you effectively have NO sustain.  It’s a meme build

[Myror.7521]

@DanSH.6143 your death in Seconds Out of stealth while been cced. While enemy scrapper get near perma Superspeed plus stability 1 panic Button reflection and could also rezz enemys per gyro..... Idk this Sounds fair is Not stupid and does Not free win Most Matches cause of how broken its dmg actually is. 

[shion.2084]

The 

4 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@DanSH.6143 your death in Seconds Out of stealth while been cced. While enemy scrapper get near perma Superspeed plus stability 1 panic Button reflection and could also rezz enemys per gyro..... Idk this Sounds fair is Not stupid and does Not free win Most Matches cause of how broken its dmg actually is. 

The stealth burst build has no stability, one stun break , and insufficient condi cleanse.   It uses shredder, blast, toolkit/nades and stealth.  It takes only damage traits.   They don’t take bulwark if they want to do a kill burst, they use shredder for spare capacitor and so that if you stun break and dodge they can try to keep damage on you.

[Myror.7521]

@shion.2084 still its busted af. They might not have that many Defence itselft. But granades are Here the Problem to me. They where too good Back then and are now. A ranged Skill should simply be Not allowed to Deal 10k plus DMG in AoE or if it just do you should be ezy punishable for doing so but with all its superspeed and reflections its nearly impossible to Catch him. Not even mentioned the stealth Here.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Pati.2438

[Eddie.9143]

i think scrapper is fine, grenades are a bit overtuned. scrappers don't have much condi removal or stun breaks, just have to survive a bit

[shion.2084]

I actually really dislike the cheese stealth bomber build.  So what I do is take "lock on" it's a trait that causes reveal.  I also take nades.   I spam nades and when I hit one of the scrappers they get weakness, vuln and reveal.  I also take bulwark so that I can drop a stability field.  

The one time I didn't take the bulwark in a ranked and tried to see how I'd do... I got paired against grim and Joik both playing stealth scrapper.  Joik farmed the crap out of me by using tool kit magnet pull from stealth, into spare capacitor he'd already placed, while whacking me with pry bar, then dropping thunderclap on me.  There was literally nothing to do.   If you don't have your counter your toast.   If I'd known what I was up against I'd have taken bulwark and lock on.  Elix S some use to survive the blast . Or not run fricken zerker against them.   It was one of the most embarassing spankings I'd had in a long time.

So yeah the real threat comes from a well coordinated duo.  Either both scrappers, or something with immob CC, to hold you in place while the scrapper drops you.   

Now note, those scrappers are running 15k HP.   So if you leap of faith well on them, or I land my grenade barrage they go down real quick.   If you don't have your stuzbreaks or invuln available to you, you're screwed.   Well as for most stealth gank builds.

The scrappers have a hard time against anything that can survive the burst.   They can't deal with condi, they can't deal with CC. and they have the hit points of an under nurished kitten.

 

As Youle put it, it's great for farming in ranked where opponents aren't coordinated once you figure out who the weak member of the heard is.   You did not see it in the most recent MAT semis and finals, and meta battle gives it a "3.5".   It's a good counter to glass cannon builds that pervade the meta, which makes them mad.  Specifically the ones with poorer defence options (like scrapper ironically).

Out of interest, what build do you play?  Maybe it would be helpful for people to suggest a build that adapts to the stealth cheese meme build.

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, Pati.2438 said:

A ranged Skill should simply be Not allowed to Deal 10k plus DMG in AoE

Can you actually post a recent 10k+ damage, 1 skill screenshot where you weren't super vulnerable'd up? Even under 20+ might conditions on a light golem I've having trouble hitting more than 1400 crits per nade in Grenade Barrage (1400 per nade x 6 nades = 8400). That assumes all crit, hit, on a light target, with 20+ might stacks. 

Also, regardless of the damage numbers, wouldn't you agree that a projectile (fully countered by reflects), slow (has flight time), ground targeted, traited (trait essentially required to make nades functional), pure damage (poor utility) skill should have high damage? Not many skills have such high requirements to hit. Grenades are also bugged so blind works extra well vs them.

Edited March 9, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Eugchriss.2046]

Another okay-ish build that will be nerf because of stealth. Maybe one day, Anet will finally implement reveal on cast and not on hit.🤷‍♂️

Edited March 9, 2023 by Eugchriss.2046

[Dr Meta.3158]

The stealth bomber scrapper is meh if you react to the stun and dodge and ridiculous if you can't. It overall isn't bad unless they slot grenade kit. Then you'll experience the real problem with engineer. Superspeed + backwards tossing grenades.

Rory Tokisaki made a great point a few days ago. The kits should just lose their auto attacks.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Dr Meta.3158
Typos

[Myror.7521]

@Dr Meta.3158ah hmm would maybe also a good way to Nerf it. Tho not Played engi enough to say exactly what need to tourned down but since all I See is my füll Team whipe in Seconds everytime the granade scrap shows Up im pretty Sure granades are the problem for Sure! xd

[Myror.7521]

@bethekey.8314 the problem ist the spamable path of granades than Just them selfes. Yes you can of course dodge the burst once or twice but a engi with superspeed chasing around with granades dealing actually pretty hard dmg for Just spam Buttons and on range is a Bit silly. Specialy If you are a class that is Just full melee. Its Like they running away from ya and you can't do kitten. This should Not be a thing! Also the fact they could also 100% to 0% a whole group in seconds does Not make it any better

[JosephKatz.9375]

6 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

I'm not sure what changed with scrapper exactly, but it is just dealing insane amounts of damage from stealth. they seem to have a lot of sustain and mobility aswell. 

I think the game works best when high damage is telegraphed, getting hit by 15k dmg from stealth by a superspeeding scrapper just doesn't feel fair.

It is not just scrapper that is busted, it is holosmith as well.

 

Why are the devs either ignoring this crazy damage or are they just negligent when it comes to player vs player and the overused classes specs traits?
 

PLUS the even more broken TOOLS trait —“LOCK ON” with PASSIVE Reveal on any damage dealt by the Engi while it spams AOE and blasts in every direction. Once the 6 second reveal hits, followed immediately by the second one, it’s game over for the thief.

This is just as much reveal as Bladesworn pre-nerf when they were able to cast “On my Mark!” 4-5x times in a minute span completely negating all stealth.

How much more bloated can one class get. Help@Cal Cohen.2358

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by JosephKatz.9375

[ArthurDent.9538]

It's hardly glass, hammer has amazing defensive utility and massive superspeed makes it immortal against most other melee builds plus it can easily deal heavy damage while running away with that superspeed. It's an alternative form of scepter cata with stealth.

[kuromi.1456]

I saw this video a while ago, and now I'm trying the scrapper🤣

[ZolracAtrox.2908]

I think they should nerf grenades, even though that they're core skills

 

I mean; in this case, both Scrapper and Holo are op on them. Scrapper should be a strong fighter, no a deadeye cosplay, that's why they should buff hammer, sustain, etc. And nerf Sneak Gyro and grenades

[Saiyan.1704]

Now that Ele no longer 1shots glass specs, build like Scrapper can flourish :3

It's the untelegraphed stealth bomb that players find toxic.... I could have sworn you could spot the Gyro hovering while the Scrapper was in stealth but maybe that's just my memory playing tricks on me.

[semak.7481]

5 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

The stealth bomber scrapper is meh if you react to the stun and dodge and ridiculous if you can't.

So, you are telling me, that your reaction time is faster than a grenade barrage boosted by quickness? Which kind of cybernetic implants you have?

[StefanB.4928]

Current scrapper is a pure glass canon. Its high reward for a super high risk / low sustain.   

Even for top players this build is a very big gamble.  I have never had such an easy time killing guys like Drazeh. Guys that are way above my skillevel and i wasnt able to touch during earlier seasons. Now they play this and die ...a lot. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by StefanB.4928

[apharma.3741]

44 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

So, you are telling me, that your reaction time is faster than a grenade barrage boosted by quickness? Which kind of cybernetic implants you have?

I think he was meaning reacting once they hit you with thunderclap, a reflect at that point is also hilarious to use as they one shot themselves. There is no reacting to 25 might and only grenade barrage from stealth but you can keep an eye on the scrappers movement and kite when you can't see them. Scrapper doesn't have infinite stealth so use that when you can.

Should stealth one shots be a thing? No, but you also have to give viable alternatives if a class is now resorting to that to be viable/fun. Most stealth one shot builds thankfully while incredibly annoying are not generally effective at deciding the match compared to how impaired your team is in working together.

[Dr Meta.3158]

3 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

So, you are telling me, that your reaction time is faster than a grenade barrage boosted by quickness? Which kind of cybernetic implants you have?

React to thunderclap as @apharma.3741said.

Which isn't that hard to react to either. Its far easier to react to than glass daredevil builds which have frequently hit me for 16-17k with two skills from stealth before their character even loaded visually before immediately entering stealth again and dodging out of the way giving making them appear for a few frames altogether. 

Overall it's more a problem with the uninteractibility with stealth than the damage itself as is per usual with this game though the same effect can be done with some cases with teleporting through walls and floors while out of sight of the target.

This game is highly filled with uninteractable mechanics that meta builds are often built around.

 

[semak.7481]

17 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

React to thunderclap as @apharma.3741said.

If you coulndt react to old CS from a mesmer, you wouldnt react to TC barrage with quickness as well. Because its the same thing, you both acting as if TC has 2s aftercast so you can yawn while doing so.

But okay, whatever you say :)

[apharma.3741]

48 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

If you coulndt react to old CS from a mesmer, you wouldnt react to TC barrage with quickness as well. Because its the same thing, you both acting as if TC has 2s aftercast so you can yawn while doing so.

But okay, whatever you say 🙂

It's not the same thing and you know it, old CS turned a daze into a stun on an ICD and was paired with an instant cast ability (mantra of distraction) that was used and hit at exactly the same time as you were hitting with mirror blade, hitting mind wrack and using mind stab. Optionally also using instant cast mirror images to get the highest damage shatter. When CS hit you you would already be about 0.1s into a burst with all the skills landing within the same fraction of a second. Most of this was instant cast so you could (and some did) macro the whole thing so it all lands in 0.25s from stealth and you're effectively deleted before any human could react or know it was coming.

Thunderclap into nade barrage will give you more time to react from after cast and cast of nade barrage with quickness and even more without. Quickness being 50% quicker cast would make grenade barrage cast time be about 0.33s and the after cast of thunder clap is going to bring it to 0.4s or even 0.5s. You'd have to do some frame counting and timing to work it out as aftercasts aren't really shown very often but either way you have more time to react.

I'm not debating if one is better than the other, only that with thunderclap used before grenade barrage you have significantly more warning that nade barrage is coming than old PU CS mesmer.

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 hour ago, semak.7481 said:

If you coulndt react to old CS from a mesmer, you wouldnt react to TC barrage with quickness as well. Because its the same thing, you both acting as if TC has 2s aftercast so you can yawn while doing so.

But okay, whatever you say 🙂

You get hit by thunderclap, stunbreak and dodge before the next hit comes in.  Thunderclap has an aftercast, quickness or not.

[Dreams.3128]

LMAO.

Here goes the cycle again.

"Scrapper is broken."
Person lists a plethora of random skills that makes it supposedly broken
Makes a thread about Scrapper three more times
People start talking about Scrapper all over the place
Someone brings up that all of Engineer should be nerfed
The whole entire engineer class gets nerfed because of a singular build
Engineer becomes garbo for the next year until a 'major' balance patch.

Repeat this cycle but with Virtuoso as well. Round and round we go boiz.