Scrapper is busted

[quaniesan.8497]

Yeh, I agree. Engies are pretty crazy in pvp at the moment, in scrapper in particular. Grenades can be thrown backward and spamming like no tomorrow, along with great sustain, quick escape options. they are both pretty much my easymode day, and also a pain to fight against.

[shion.2084]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:26 AM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

devs want nades broken for some reason
how many skills can you name that got as much attention as the nades?
if they end up usable but not too strong, they swoop in and buff them

They let nades rot for quite a while.  So bomb kit was useless, nades no-one took, Flame Thrower Nerfed, tool kit no-one bothered with till the tools trait line changed.   Basically only E-gun saw some use (not anymore) and Mortar, great for a super slow projectile that hits nothing at range.   Nades weren't at a point where they were being used before.   And I don't think when they swooped in what they changed was grenade barrage (which is what is used to do damage in the stealth bomb build)

[shion.2084]

On 3/11/2023 at 8:33 PM, ZolracAtrox.2908 said:

at least toolkit's skill that deals lots of dmg is very melee; a build focused on that gonna be almost more troll than useful; nades are ranged and are 360° throwable while superspeed.

 

 

Right but the original QQ here was the one shot stealth build.  And what I'm saying is nerfing a nades auto attack ain't going to fix it. I think the problem with this thread is people have a couple of gripes and have conflated the original complaint of the thread so some of the solutions proposed have nothing to do with the original stated problem. 

I'm fine with nades only being tossed in a forward 180 arc if that makes people happy... BUT IT WON'T.  Because what people are getting noob stomped by is a stealth grenade, shredder, spare capacitor, thunderclap, electro whirl, rocket charge combo.   They'll still be whining about nades.

[Crab Fear.8623]

9 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Right but the original QQ here was the one shot stealth build.  And what I'm saying is nerfing a nades auto attack ain't going to fix it. I think the problem with this thread is people have a couple of gripes and have conflated the original complaint of the thread so some of the solutions proposed have nothing to do with the original stated problem. 

I'm fine with nades only being tossed in a forward 180 arc if that makes people happy... BUT IT WON'T.  Because what people are getting noob stomped by is a stealth grenade, shredder, spare capacitor, thunderclap, electro whirl, rocket charge combo.   They'll still be whining about nades.

They should start whining about the macro, and explosive entrance instead.

12 attacks coming out of stealth in seemingly one packet is mad sus.

 

Even if they are not coming out of stealth, this, EVEN THIS, scrapper build is not some vapor noodle.

Hard to kill, mobile, and HIGH dps with stealth.

IT is BUSTED.

[JTGuevara.9018]

Sooo...back to the future of 2020-2021! Nice!  Jacked-of-all-trades scrapper...

I would personally like to say to everyone: have fun in this clown show.

Aaaah...it feels so good not playing pvp in mmos...

[shion.2084]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

They should start whining about the macro, and explosive entrance instead.

12 attacks coming out of stealth in seemingly one packet is mad sus.

 

Even if they are not coming out of stealth, this, EVEN THIS, scrapper build is not some vapor noodle.

Hard to kill, mobile, and HIGH dps with stealth.

IT is BUSTED.

To be fair sometimes I die before my screen renders the character.  There’s some wierd prolonged invis behaviour.  Bust as a warrior… what are they going to do mele ing into your full counter?

[Kuma.1503]

On 3/12/2023 at 8:17 PM, Myst.5783 said:

What I've noticed, is engies with too much sustain able to outrun my teef.

 

Engies shouldn't be outrunning daredevils.

Scrapper outruns everything in terms of pure MS since it has the most superspeed access in the game. Teef is still faster factoring in all of their ports. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[shion.2084]

31 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Scrapper outruns everything in terms of pure MS since it has the most superspeed access in the game. Teef is still faster factoring in all of their ports. 

Routinely beaten to mid by many classes.  Warriors using mobility, will benders with their burst movement skills, etc.   Trying to catch a necro who can worm port basically invalidates the burst and leaves you open to their fear chain…. There are many things I can’t catch, especially in maps with levels.

[Kuma.1503]

31 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Routinely beaten to mid by many classes.  Warriors using mobility, will benders with their burst movement skills, etc.   Trying to catch a necro who can worm port basically invalidates the burst and leaves you open to their fear chain…. There are many things I can’t catch, especially in maps with levels.

Yeah, I routinely play Scrapper in WvW, and Daredevil, Soulbeast, and Willbender are all things I can't catch if they don't want to fight. 

Superspeed is great, but Scrapper lacks burst movement options. No ports, can't zoom up and down the Y axis like thief can. Hammer 3 isn't the best gapcloser in the world. Definitely nothing compared to other dashes. 

I think it's a fair trade-off. We run fast, other classes get port around and "nothing personel kid" to their heart's content. 

 

[bethekey.8314]

2 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

Hard to kill, mobile, and HIGH dps with stealth.

Good description for thief.

A more apt description of burst Scrapper is:

"Easy to kill, mobile, and high dps with 1 stealth."

[lovemghool.7613]

https://clips.twitch.tv/GloriousRockyFennelNotATK-bkAMEX4rxpuwOOQ-

this is fun

[bethekey.8314]

13 minutes ago, lovemghool.7613 said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/GloriousRockyFennelNotATK-bkAMEX4rxpuwOOQ-

this is fun

Are people so ignorant to think that a 4-man coordinated burst from any class wouldn't achieve the same result?

It was said before, I'll say it again, this is rifle mech all over again. We see how that went.

Edited March 14, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Kuma.1503]

On 3/13/2023 at 12:33 AM, quaniesan.8497 said:

Yeh, I agree. Engies are pretty crazy in pvp at the moment, in scrapper in particular. Grenades can be thrown backward and spamming like no tomorrow, along with great sustain, quick escape options. they are both pretty much my easymode day, and also a pain to fight against.

Scrapper sustain is not good if they're playing glass. Impact Savant has multiple avenues to counterplay it. Biggest 2 are stunning the engi, and bursting them from range. If they aren't dealing damage they aren't tanky. On that note, projectile hate prevents them from pressuring from range with nades/mortars. 

Nades are fine. They inevitably come up every time an engi build becomes meta, even if that build doesn't run nades (Look back on the tools holo discussions as an example). Ele Scepter is arguably even worse than nades in terms of 360 degree kiting. 

The only overperforming part of the build is stealth. Stealth enables the cheese. Just give Sneak Gyro it's WvW tuning, and this build becomes much less obnoxious. 

For context: In WvW, Sneak gyro only gives 3 seconds of stealth, no smoke field,  and plays an obvious visual indicator to enemies when activated. This makes the cheese much harder to pull off. Stealth is toxic anyway, so I won't mourn Sneak Gyro if it gets neutered in competitive. 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

This take is petty but:

I feel like people should let the scrappers have their Jack-in-the-box build because nobody has batted an eye at soulbeast/glass ele/glass mes/glass herald/willbender/glass thief porting in and wiping someone off the face of the earth by pressing every button on their hotbar, and some of yall need to dodge instead of building bunkers and putting your opponents to sleep. 😪

Throwing grenades backward is a separate issue and probably should be dealt with (not really though, because nades were fine before scrappers started showing up with surprise damage) but people seem more tilted by the secret boombuild and less tilted by the grenades. 

I like the secret boombuild and I cant even play engie half as good at some of these people, but I've been hit by variants long enough to know that if you get mag pulled, you're gonna get prybarred, and this is no different. Engie still cant shed condis, still can't respond to cc. It's fair. Keep it. 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Kodama.6453]

Well, congratulations. Scrapper got nerfed once again because of whining. Anet really doesn't want that class to have any appearance in competitive mode, so nothing but holosmith it still is.

[Dr Meta.3158]

10 hours ago, lovemghool.7613 said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/GloriousRockyFennelNotATK-bkAMEX4rxpuwOOQ-

this is fun

This can happen with any coordinated team and a thief/mesmer/scrapper

But I did watch the craziness of Boyce's AT's 10 scrapper match.

[Kuma.1503]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, congratulations. Scrapper got nerfed once again because of whining. Anet really doesn't want that class to have any appearance in competitive mode, so nothing but holosmith it still is.

  Requoting myself:

On 3/10/2023 at 2:01 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

.. In any case, Scrapper never sticks around in the meta for long. I'll be genuinely surprised if it's not slapped back into the gutter by the time I return to the game in a month. 

It didn't even take a month. Love how my off-meta heal scrapper build got hit by these nerfs too. Think I'm done with this spec. It's not worth the headache. 

[shion.2084]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, congratulations. Scrapper got nerfed once again because of whining. Anet really doesn't want that class to have any appearance in competitive mode, so nothing but holosmith it still is.

wait what?  Is there something out?

[SleepyBat.9034]

Just now, shion.2084 said:

wait what?  Is there something out?

 

[Zex Anthon.8673]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, congratulations. Scrapper got nerfed once again because of whining. Anet really doesn't want that class to have any appearance in competitive mode, so nothing but holosmith it still is.

kitten off with this. Scrapper is still good. Its just not god tier with perma superspeed anymore.

[shion.2084]

But they didn't give us quickness back, they made the nerf they already gave us with kinetic accelerator even worse if that's possible (well clearly it is)

[shion.2084]

Just now, shion.2084 said:

But they didn't give us quickness back, they made the nerf they already gave us with kinetic accelerator even worse if that's possible (well clearly it is)

all they needed to do was nerf stealth a bit as it was the only fricken problem.   And now people will still whine about nades.

[shion.2084]

1 hour ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

kitten off with this. Scrapper is still good. Its just not god tier with perma superspeed anymore.

Even with the build the way it was before, you didn't see a single scrapper played in MAT finals or semi finals.  It was never even meta.   You look at meta battle and the build was ranked a 3.5.  It was "Meme" tier.   So it can't be "still good" because it wasn't really meta worthy in the first place.

What it was, was a noob farmer and a counter to those relying on glass builds.

[Kstyle.5829]

The misinformation posted by the horrible players in this forum post leads to yet another class being completely gutted in PVP.  Getting hit by grenade barrage and electro whirl doesn't kill any class unless you are a 12k hp thief with berserker amulet.   And it leaves the scrapper with literally no attacks left except auto attack for about 20 seconds.  Meaning if you died to this combo you're really bad at this game.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by Kstyle.5829

[Dr Meta.3158]

The build wasn't that good. Its just stealth. 90% of degenerate builds in this game are due to visibility issues be it stealth, porting from behind cover, or visual clutter.

Majority of the reason why pve players don't stick around in pvp is because they can't see what the hell is even going on. You go from a game mode with obvious tells on what to dodge to a game mode where some massive skills do nothing and some subtle skills 1-2 shot you. And thats excluding the stealth, porting, and visual clutter builds like thief, thief/rev, and catalyst/mesmer respectively.