Self root skills/spells ?

[PolarBear.3961]

Why do they STILL exist in a game that is all about action combat and movement ?! 

Edited March 8, 2023 by PolarBear.3961

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

...You can have both?  Personally I hate it when games when are too floaty with their combat.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

I quite like having some stationary skills, but their current implementation is quite awful. The player should be rewarded for succesfully negating the negative side side effect (being self root). Whirling defense (PvE) is an excellent example for this: it deals insane burst damage aslong as the enemy stays inside the hitbox. On the other hand f.e. 100b for PvE warrior deals mediocre damage at best while offering even more restrictions then whirling defense. 

Same goes for PvP/WvW but the dmge should be even further scaled up. A good example of this is Meteor shower, it has the highest possible dmge cap of any skill in WvW by far. For roaming/pvp these skills tend to have to low dmge coefficients to actually stay relevant. Hitting a long lasting knockdown followed up by a stationary skill should be rewarded/not getting out should be punished. Getting hit by 100 wet noodles instead simply negates the entire function of the skill. 

 

Having all sorts of 'struggles' in combat makes the combat fun and self root is definitely one of them. Unfortunately Anet's balancing tend to be quite slow (and they've got alot of catching up to do). Most inconveniences/struggles arent rewarded properly while simultaneously most extra class benefits do not negatively impact the builds dps output (f.e. there's no reason why hammer spb should deal more dmge then GS spb). 

Although the balance of the game definitely has improved last year, there are still alot of long lasting issues that need to be fixed

Edited March 9, 2023 by the krytan assassin.9235

[Gibson.4036]

I avoid the self-roots like the plague.

Too many circles on the ground.

[Fueki.4753]

They are still in the game, because they simply do not want to remove them. I don't think they have ever stated a reason or excuse for that.

But I also think self-root has no reason to exist in this game, especially when the ability also hits like wet noodles, like hundred back rubs on Warrior's Greatsword.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[PolarBear.3961]

Idea here, why not remove the root part and increase the damage the skills do when stationary and decrease the damage while moving. Atleast we could move with them now but with a draw back so the people that want this outdated stuff will still have it ? Win/Win ???

[PolarBear.3961]

Got to love the confusion emote and no constructive criticism or ideas ugh... 🤪🙄

[Jski.6180]

I like the ideal of removing all self root effects and replaces them with slow movement during cast think dead eye Kneel movement speed. We can even make that an state of being maybe some type of soft cc that makes you move very slowly for a very short time but also doubles as an self imposed effect.

I would not mind seeing this slow/kneel effect added to skills that dont have any skill roots on them or maybe even adding it to the after effect of powerful skills.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Jski.6180

[Bunny.9834]

It shouldnt be a problem if those self root skills are powerful. 

But theyre usually not and sometimes weaker than a mobile skill. (Meteor Shower) 

A lot of these skills were designed with 2012 gw2 combat in mind and now that the game has evolved beyond that the devs totally forgot to update those skills. 

 

 

[Infinity.2876]

I hate rooting skills but could understand self-inflicted soft cc for better results.

Like:

Heal skill: self-blind (after cast)

burst skill: self cripple (during cast)

big condi aoe: weakness (before cast)

hard cc: slow (during cast)

 

 

[Stx.4857]

I don’t necessarily mind self root skills but they have to feel rewarding to use.  
 

For example ranger axe 5 skill whirling defense does a TON of damage and just melts everything around you.  
 

Warrior sword burst skill that bleeds and immobilizes also self roots you but the damage is just very underwhelming.  Same with greatsword 2 for warrior.  The damage just doesn’t justify the self root.  

[Sonork.2916]

Looking at you Zealot's defense, a self root, on the guardian's only mobile main hand weapon which shoots projectiles so slowly, that an opponent who briskly walks in any direction can easily avoid them.  

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 3/10/2023 at 3:41 AM, PolarBear.3961 said:

Got to love the confusion emote and no constructive criticism or ideas ugh... 🤪🙄

I like this idea. How about we baseline that on all abilities though?

[Kodama.6453]

Self root is an additional balancing lever. If a skill roots you in place, it is usually allowed to be more powerful. You are basically buying power budget with this.

Do you really believe that, for example, dragon trigger would be allowed to deal the extreme amount of damage it does in PvE if it wouldn't root you in place for 2,5 seconds?

[PolarBear.3961]

Dragon trigger is the only exception because its an elite speck main mechanic, the other self roots have no place in this game anymore. Go read my solution.

[Kodama.6453]

4 hours ago, PolarBear.3961 said:

Dragon trigger is the only exception because its an elite speck main mechanic, the other self roots have no place in this game anymore. Go read my solution.

I see quite some of these self rooting skills still being used, so it seems they do have a place in the game. "I don't like it" and "it doesn't have a place in the game" are 2 very different things.

I prefer to keep them because these types of skills reward good positioning and situational awareness.

[Jski.6180]

9 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I see quite some of these self rooting skills still being used, so it seems they do have a place in the game. "I don't like it" and "it doesn't have a place in the game" are 2 very different things.

I prefer to keep them because these types of skills reward good positioning and situational awareness.

The issues is not all root skills are reward euqiely base off of the root effect and often classes with root effect build in come with "tricks" to let them move. Say being able to move a bit even if its just walk speed would go a long way to better balancing strong skills that currently roots you AT the same time adding in walk speed to other channel skills that have low to no root would help out a lot as well.

[PolarBear.3961]

Yup exactly... someone gets it finally... 

[mirage.8046]

self-roots can be a little annoying, especially if you accidentally interrupt yourself. but that is a personal problem. :P
mesmer's sword 2 does this but at least it evades while you're attacking. the best thing you should do before using any self-root skill is to get quickness or stability. but I will agree a skill such as warrior's greatsword 2 does not deserve a self-root since it's just pure damage and no defensive mechanism.

[Kodama.6453]

17 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

The issues is not all root skills are reward euqiely base off of the root effect and often classes with root effect build in come with "tricks" to let them move. Say being able to move a bit even if its just walk speed would go a long way to better balancing strong skills that currently roots you AT the same time adding in walk speed to other channel skills that have low to no root would help out a lot as well.

How does it help? All it does is once again power creeping, making the game even easier to play, removing reward for knowledge of the fight (because less incentive to be able to evaluate if you are currently in a situation that allows to use these self rooting skills or not).

For me, this jus reads as people just once again want the game to be easier, because they don't want to learn fight patterns.

I use quite alot of self rooting skills myself and never thought "kitten, I wish I could have moved there". If it didn't work out because I got interrupted or needed to cancel the skill because I needed to dodge, I just think "that's on me, using that skill there was not warranted".

Edited March 15, 2023 by Kodama.6453

[prototypedragon.1406]

How does one break out of warriors core F1  burst sword ability when it is cast with the self root? Last I checked the best way to cancel it is to weapon swap. Plus the immobilize all it takes is one sneezing a single condition cleanse ( no stun break needed 🤔 )and they can step away from a warrior as they are locked into a animation as they swipe at the air helplessly  especially if their weapon swap is still on cooldown their target laughs at them, perhaps changing the immobilize to entangling roots like rangers have it could perhaps be more useful of a ability if we are supporting the sitting duck methods of self immobilizes  for Frontline classes that have limited range access as it is 🤡😂 

[Jski.6180]

5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

How does it help? All it does is once again power creeping, making the game even easier to play, removing reward for knowledge of the fight (because less incentive to be able to evaluate if you are currently in a situation that allows to use these self rooting skills or not).

For me, this jus reads as people just once again want the game to be easier, because they don't want to learn fight patterns.

I use quite alot of self rooting skills myself and never thought "kitten, I wish I could have moved there". If it didn't work out because I got interrupted or needed to cancel the skill because I needed to dodge, I just think "that's on me, using that skill there was not warranted".

Some movement lets every one keep actively playing vs just going afk for a few sec to cast an spell. At the same time it opens up the ability to add more slow movement to skills that have no root but are strong enofe to need it. It kind of becomes an "you slow your self down for a sec to cast an strong spell" you dont lose your flow of movement but you pay an price for the big spell.

Being able to keep moving but at an slower speed for more skills on-top of the root skills makes the game harder but it will make the game feel better. You as an player has more chose to move but though choose are more consequential as they are far slower then normal movement. Its like adding in set movement skills on auto attks like say tera mmorpg.

I want to see more skills that make you chose normal movement vs slow movement.

[asket.5674]

Imo root is to extrem, i think a strong slow like 80% would feel a lot better and responsive and not imbalanced. Should negate any speed buffs for the cast duration though.

[Sonork.2916]

8 hours ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

How does one break out of warriors core F1  burst sword ability when it is cast with the self root?

Weapon stow will cancel the rest of the cast.

[Batalix.2873]

Rooting is fine, if the payoff is satisfying.