over-buffed grenade kit leads to scrapper getting gutted...well-done anet!

[Exalted Quality.8534]

scrapper was never a nuisance until grenade kit was inexplicably buffed.  instead of admitting your egregious oversight, and reverting the grenade kit buffs, you destroy scrapper instead. 10/10 galaxy brain. 

[shion.2084]

2 minutes ago, Exalted Quality.8534 said:

scrapper was never a nuisance until grenade kit was inexplicably buffed.  instead of admitting your egregious oversight, and reverting the grenade kit buffs, you destroy scrapper instead. 10/10 galaxy brain. 

Don't worry, they'll still come after grenade kit.... except they won't undo what they've just done to scrapper.   

[Kuma.1503]

> Build overperforms

> Nerf around obvious problem

> Nerfs don't solve problem, but kill off balanced builds in the process. Bonus points if you nerf core

> Eventually nerf the actual problem

> Spec dies

> Refuse to undo the extraneous nerfs that are no longer needed. 

 

The Anet special. 

 

Still think giving Sneak Gyro its WvW tuning hits the problem of this build at it's root. 

Nade Holo / Stealthless Nade scrapper aren't an issue right now. Though maybe if other classes keep getting nerfed it might become one. 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Zoser.7245]

56 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Don't worry, they'll still come after grenade kit.... except they won't undo what they've just done to scrapper.   

That is how they normally work. They have done it many times already.  With only few undo exceptions in 11 years and a long list of underwhelming/disappointing things accumulated .

[Hotride.2187]

36 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

> Build overperforms

> Nerf around obvious problem

> Nerfs don't solve problem, but kill off balanced builds in the process. Bonus points if you nerf core

> Eventually nerf the actual problem

> Spec dies

> Refuse to undo the extraneous nerfs that are no longer needed.

The Anet special.

It "worked" before, it will "work" now.

[Sereath.1428]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

> Build overperforms

> Nerf around obvious problem

> Nerfs don't solve problem, but kill off balanced builds in the process. Bonus points if you nerf core

> Eventually nerf the actual problem

> Spec dies

> Refuse to undo the extraneous nerfs that are no longer needed. 

 

The Anet special. 

 

Still think giving Sneak Gyro its WvW tuning hits the problem of this build at it's root. 

Nade Holo / Stealthless Nade scrapper aren't an issue right now. Though maybe if other classes keep getting nerfed it might become one. 

 

Yup ⭐

This is the exact reason most things feel so bad to play.
It is so infuriating looking at the history of skills:
- Nerfed to uselessness X skill/trait because Y Elite spec overperformed during a very specific meta.

4 years later, same skill is still garbage.
Potential for new builds is dead.

Don't they keep logs or something?

Context is everything, but as usual they only hyperfixate on superficial problems.

Edited March 14, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Next weeks forum posts: Nade holo is op!

Im telling you guys, the only way to balance this is to nerf core engi.

[reddie.5861]

5 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Next weeks forum posts: Nade holo is op!

Im telling you guys, the only way to balance this is to nerf core engi.

to balance stuff is by balancing core engi. but they failed at that in HoT/PoF already if they had balance back then spot on all they had to do was simple changes to elite specs and if was broken on all specs change the skill to the point it isnt broken.

nowadays they just keep touching randomly traits and / or skills and break one thing after another.
i mean just because scrapper is good at something or over performs doesnt mean a holo and mechanist and core engi have to feel this nerf also unless all 4 of em over perform with the same thing.

[Stalima.5490]

The only way they will solve this is by just making the grenade kit into a full bleed/condition kit and then completely rework the bomb kit into a power dedicated kit.

 

Instead of awkwardly having tons of conditions but being a power weapon for some reason.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Stalima.5490

[SleepyBat.9034]

6 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

Instead of awkwardly having tons of conditions but being a power weapon for some reason

I don't see any issues with this, the way I see it plenty of classes have access to power and condition-based weapons.

[Kstyle.5829]

Everybody on the forums seems to understand how ANET fails at balancing the game.  Everyone complains and says negative things.  I just wonder why people who have such a negative experience still play.  I mean I used to play this game all day but now have maybe like 2 hours a week for it if even that.  

 

Alot of the time on the forums people will pretend to act like they don't really care that much about the game.  But the truth is 99.9% of people already quit playing, so the people who are left are in the small minority who really care alot and this just seems like the majority because the other people already are gone.  I understand the nature of addiction and I honestly want people to better their lives and give ANET and incentive to fix this game.  If everyone can have the discipline to refuse to play or pay any money until they work on fixing this game, they would have some incentive to actually do something.

 

But if you guys keep playing and sitting here whining and giving them money, it just makes you look like an addict begging your dealer for his precious time of day, and then after 5 months you get something just to shut you up.  

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

4 hours ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Yup ⭐

This is the exact reason most things feel so bad to play.
It is so infuriating looking at the history of skills:
- Nerfed to uselessness X skill/trait because Y Elite spec overperformed during a very specific meta.

4 years later, same skill is still garbage.
Potential for new builds is dead.

Don't they keep logs or something?

Context is everything, but as usual they only hyperfixate on superficial problems.

Office politics plays a role.  These changes don't just come from nowhere.  It's somebody's baby.  Having someone else come up and press the undo button on those changes can, and often is, taken as disrespect.  So, companies will create a cottage rule where you don't have two employees fight over policies/ideas/etc by just undoing what each other does.

[Kstyle.5829]

4 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Office politics plays a role.  These changes don't just come from nowhere.  It's somebody's baby.  Having someone else come up and press the undo button on those changes can, and often is, taken as disrespect.  So, companies will create a cottage rule where you don't have two employees fight over policies/ideas/etc by just undoing what each other does.

Interesting theory but it's not true.  Actually the truth is they just don't care bc only a handful of people work on gw2 right now.  They are busy developing a new title.  

[Sereath.1428]

7 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Office politics plays a role.  These changes don't just come from nowhere.  It's somebody's baby.  Having someone else come up and press the undo button on those changes can, and often is, taken as disrespect.  So, companies will create a cottage rule where you don't have two employees fight over policies/ideas/etc by just undoing what each other does.

Huh, interesting. Could be.

[UNOwen.7132]

Was scrapper even overperforming? Last I checked it was basically non-existent in February MAT, and I haven't seen a lot of players on it in general.

[Eugchriss.2046]

The super speed overtime for scrapper was crazy tho. They should had just nerf that and the elite gyro and then go from there.

[Crab Fear.8623]

9 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Was scrapper even overperforming? Last I checked it was basically non-existent in February MAT, and I haven't seen a lot of players on it in general.

Noobstompers....

NOOBSTOMPERS...

ARE not ALLOWED........

not in this game, at all.

I approve.

Noobs need a chance, the TOP vets are vile, dastardly, and need to be nerfed when they concoct these repulsive builds.

[Downstate.4697]

So they nerf superspeed and might stacks and now the class is garbage? Sounds like scrapper players need to get out of their own head. If you think that much superspeed was okay than you don’t care about the health of the game mode. If you think one shot gimmicks are okay than you don’t care about the health of the game mode. 

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

They only nerf Scrapper! Holo and Grenade is still OP. Is it because they forgot ? Or they thought we wouldnt notice anything ?

Nade, Tools trait ! we're all too boosted that people compare normal professions to those specs and feel like they are weak.

[shion.2084]

3 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

So they nerf superspeed and might stacks and now the class is garbage? Sounds like scrapper players need to get out of their own head. If you think that much superspeed was okay than you don’t care about the health of the game mode. If you think one shot gimmicks are okay than you don’t care about the health of the game mode. 

I don't believe you understand the class.  Scrappers do not have adequate defensives to do protracted mele fights.  They need to get in and out.  To have any significant impact they must do very high damage for their short engagements.   The class has such low damage that this means it needs to be run utter glass in terms of both traits and utilities chosen.   A competitive scrapper will have 1 stun break, almost no condi cleanse, typically no stability, no port, and no super movement skills (well rocket charge which is a tiny hair faster than super speed).   So what it's got to live (since the typical build runs 15k) is one stealth (now on 75 second CD) and super speed.   

This change would be fine if they'd given scrapper the ability to actually scrap in return for taking away its ability to survive through stealth and positioning.   They didn't however give the scrapper anything to allow it to mitigate the big hit it took to survivability (which amounts to the need to nuke things very fast, and the ability to run away with Superspeed since there's nothing else it has to move quick).

[Dr Meta.3158]

First AT after patch. Scrapper still doing the same tactic as before. So its fine.

[shion.2084]

7 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

First AT after patch. Scrapper still doing the same tactic as before. So its fine.

What is fine?   It's not a matter of if someone tries to run it, there are many underlying factors.  For example, it's not fine if other builds (like Alien's which is a healthy build) are negatively impacted and in fact encourages players playing the "right" way to now have to go cheese.  I would certainly not consider that fine.   
The build was never a good build, just a Meme tier noob farmer.... now it just does that worse, Scrapper would be "fine" if it had options now to make it a healthy meta contender.

[Downstate.4697]

35 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I don't believe you understand the class.  Scrappers do not have adequate defensives to do protracted mele fights.  They need to get in and out.  To have any significant impact they must do very high damage for their short engagements.   The class has such low damage that this means it needs to be run utter glass in terms of both traits and utilities chosen.   A competitive scrapper will have 1 stun break, almost no condi cleanse, typically no stability, no port, and no super movement skills (well rocket charge which is a tiny hair faster than super speed).   So what it's got to live (since the typical build runs 15k) is one stealth (now on 75 second CD) and super speed.   

This change would be fine if they'd given scrapper the ability to actually scrap in return for taking away its ability to survive through stealth and positioning.   They didn't however give the scrapper anything to allow it to mitigate the big hit it took to survivability (which amounts to the need to nuke things very fast, and the ability to run away with Superspeed since there's nothing else it has to move quick).

Sounds like a different problem. Scrapper shouldn’t have been designed the way it is in the first place. 

[shion.2084]

14 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Sounds like a different problem. Scrapper shouldn’t have been designed the way it is in the first place. 

ironically it wasn't.  It was originally given traits that would generate sufficient barrier when it did mele damage.  Allowing it to be a "bruiser".  They of course nerfed that.

Even the "rune of the scrapper" gave a discount in damage received if you were within mele range of your opponent.  It was the whole "theme"

Edited March 15, 2023 by shion.2084

[Dr Meta.3158]

14 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

What is fine?   It's not a matter of if someone tries to run it, there are many underlying factors.  For example, it's not fine if other builds (like Alien's which is a healthy build) are negatively impacted and in fact encourages players playing the "right" way to now have to go cheese.  I would certainly not consider that fine.   
The build was never a good build, just a Meme tier noob farmer.... now it just does that worse, Scrapper would be "fine" if it had options now to make it a healthy meta contender.

Ok, more specifically, that build is fine. It still has near permanent uptime on superspeed, still does up to 20k bursts out of stealth that relies on innate reaction speed to avoid, still drops nades on you from behind while running with superspeed. Its just not as good as moving the team across the map, but double scrapper is. Most likely it will get nerfed again in the wrong places before getting nerfed again in May in the right places.

Alien's build also heavily relies on stealth bursts too which is not healthy including smokescale sic-em soulbeast, zerk d/p daredevil, stealth gyro scrapper, elixir s holosmith, stealth chronomancer (moa too). Unless you're talking about his FFA build then I don't really care much for those.

Its a noob farm build but its also used in serious matches in AT but with grenades, the real offending culprit utility since February 2020.

This build is just a replacement to FA catalyst as that playstyle was exciting and fun to play and stream with by the teen/early 20s crowd. Once it gets nerfed out of favor then we'll likely be back to revenant/dd. For the same burst from behind walls/stealth, exciting and fun to stream playstyle