New to Fractals and Raids - Question

[Knetik.4356]

Hey all. I have been playing GW2 off and on since release, but haven't really dabbled a ton into instanced content since back in vanilla GW2 as I have always just focused on PvP and WvW. With the game being VASTLY different now, it has been a bit intimidating getting into.

Question: How necessary are meta builds and how does the community treat the concept of meta builds? Is there a DPS "breakpoint" you should have in your build? I know there is a certain amount of CC and Utility needed for certain encounters and such.
I have always loved build crafting to an extent, and I usually gravitate towards a weapon set or style of combat I enjoy and attempt to make it work. I never really enjoyed just playing a cookie cutter build from a website (otherwise I would just go back to WoW).

Anyhow, I just wanted feedback on this before I make a step forward in crafting gear and such to start my fractal and raid journey.

[Einsof.1457]

I've been raiding for years and it's easier to get into now than ever before. Arenanet has really tried to destroy the concept of "meta builds" and multiple professions can fulfil multiple roles these days. I would encourage you to play whatever you enjoy that fits into either Heal-Quickness, Heal-Alacrity, DPS, DPS-Alacrity, or DPS-Quickness. There are also specialty builds for specific roles in an encounter, but multiple builds can fulfil these roles. For example, a deadeye or soulbeast (and others) can do Q1 kiting. If you are asking about can you just wing it with traits and gear stats, the answer is no. But a single profession can fulfil multiple roles if built to fit that role. Example, don't wear berserkers if you are trying to be a healer. You should build out what you are trying to accomplish. If you create your own build and you fulfil your role that you signed up for, then that's all that matters.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Einsof.1457

[SuavePuppy.2809]

2 hours ago, Knetik.4356 said:

How necessary are meta builds and how does the community treat the concept of meta builds?

Are they necessary? Not entirely - they become more desirable in harder raids/higher level fractals. The most people will usually ask to see is if the stats on your gear works for what role you're trying to fill, which is relatively important. You should also be using weapons that help fulfill that role. 

 

2 hours ago, Knetik.4356 said:

Is there a DPS "breakpoint" you should have in your build?

It varies between classes, roles, and encounters, but if you check the benchmarks for the classes, set up a training golem with your character loaded with the standard buffs, and can hit even 75% of that number, you'll be in fine shape. 

 

2 hours ago, Knetik.4356 said:

I have always loved build crafting to an extent, and I usually gravitate towards a weapon set or style of combat I enjoy and attempt to make it work.

By all means, build craft away. Just make sure your build actually provides what it needs to to the group. Look to provide either straight DPS, Quickness DPS, Quickness Healer, Alacrity DPS, or Alacrity Heal.

 

But there are many builds available for each class. Even if you don't copy paste one from a good website, check them out to see why they work.

[Baseleader.4128]

Personally I would recommend you find a  playstyle/role among the meta builds that you enjoy, but otherwise mostly stick to the meta builds.

 

You should ask yourself why you're deviating from a meta build, when you do so. There's nothing wrong with changing skills/traits/weapon for a bit more utility on certain fights as a healer for instance, but you should question if you're not just changing something for the sake of change. The meta builds are made because they perform their role to their maximum potential.

 

 

[Knetik.4356]

2 hours ago, Baseleader.4128 said:

You should ask yourself why you're deviating from a meta build, when you do so. There's nothing wrong with changing skills/traits/weapon for a bit more utility on certain fights as a healer for instance, but you should question if you're not just changing something for the sake of change. The meta builds are made because they perform their role to their maximum potential.

Oh ya I get it. I raided competitively in mmorpgs since the 90s, but I have just kinda lost the care for it as I got older. Main reason I ask about meta builds because I simply like the playstyles of certain weapon sets more than others. For example, on ele I prefer playing D/D weapon set. Find I cant get a reasonably good dps benchmark as catalyst with some finagling of the build. 

Things like that anyways. If I find a meta build that clicks with my playstyle then that just makes it easy and a no brainer choice of course.

[Cyninja.2954]

14 hours ago, Knetik.4356 said:

Oh ya I get it. I raided competitively in mmorpgs since the 90s, but I have just kinda lost the care for it as I got older. Main reason I ask about meta builds because I simply like the playstyles of certain weapon sets more than others. For example, on ele I prefer playing D/D weapon set. Find I cant get a reasonably good dps benchmark as catalyst with some finagling of the build. 

You are already ahead of 90% of the players then.

Here is the 1 thing you need to know:

- players look for specific roles with a specific performance

That's it. That's all there is to it. Now where this gets complicated is:

- what skill level or performance level is the group you are joining at? The more elite, the higher the performance expectations and the less tolerance for mistakes

- specific roles are more desirable. Roles can be specific roles in the composition or roles for a specific fight. Either is in demand. The most straightforward role is dps with no responsibilities

What are the group compositions/roles in general?

- alacrity/quickness support - expectations include healing, cleansing, dealing with mechanics (pushing, kiting, tanking, crowd control, etc.) and a high uptime of alacrity/quickness. The more experienced the group, the higher expectations on the different issues will be

- alacrity/quickness offensive support - the mirror to the defensive support. expectations include again uptime on the critical boons, mechanics (crowd control, encounter specific boons/utility, etc.) and as much damage as possible

- dps - expectation is dps. Sometimes mechanics as well (Dhuum greens, Qadim pylons, etc.). The more experienced the group, the less leeway for slacking off dps wise

Unlike what most inexperienced players think, it seldom is about running meta builds or specific builds as long as you can perform the expected role you are there for. Obviously, as you move into higher skill level groups, a lot of weaker builds fall out because they simply can't keep up with expectations.

Meanwhile in the middle or lower skill segment, nearly anything goes in a skilled players hands. That's also where a majority of "low intensity builds" shine (and some of them even into higher skill level groups) because realistically, a vast majority of mid level groups are still far off from what top tier players produce (and what is possible in game).

14 hours ago, Knetik.4356 said:

Things like that anyways. If I find a meta build that clicks with my playstyle then that just makes it easy and a no brainer choice of course.

 

The best thing about meta builds is to take away from them what they are built around, then adjust to ones liking (if experienced enough). The issue in this game most often is that many players are not experienced enough to make sensible adaptations or even check their work (say on the golem or in a training) which leads to very poor performance both by a build as well as the player.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The generally accepted approach is not to force yourself to play a meta build, since everyone is different and has their own limitations, but to base your own build on it and adjust it for what works for you. This results in lower maximum DPS, but higher sustained DPS since you aren't making as many mistakes.

 

Hitting about 75-80% of the expected DPS is perfectly normal (much less if you're Alac/Quick). I'm not talking about benchmarks, I'm talking about installing ArcDPS and comparing your DPS to other players in actual encounters. As long as you're in the top three in 5man content and higher than both the supports, its probably fine. Its also normal to do better or worse than someone else depending on the encounter, for example, condi will do worse on T1-T3 recommended Fractals, but often trash power builds in T4.

 

You can train yourself to play a meta build one for one, but you'll have to spend hours on the golem to do it, and if its not what you're looking for, you'll just end up feeling bitter and drained.

 

Other people will say that you should throw out your own enjoyment of the game in order to complete content. I'd be very careful of this as burnout is a very real problem in this game, and I've lost alot of friends to it. I think Its better to build for the long-term even if it means not being as "hardcore". There's always time to become hardcore later, after you've managed to achieve some sort of middle-ground.

 

Even though instanced content (especially raids) in this game is easier than in other MMOs, the real-time action combat system is alot more stressful on your mind and body.

Edited March 15, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[pfuetzi.5421]

I second the previous comments. You can play anything you want as long as you perform ok on it. There is nothing wrong with your own build. I would say, if you can reliably hit 20-25k on the golem (with all buffs/all condition), it is sufficient. You probalby won't be top dps but should be able to clear every raid boss without getting totally carried  (especially with emboldened). Doing mechanics and not die is worth at lot 😉.

Fractals are easy to start with. T1/T2, you can probalby play whatever you want but you need Agony Resitance at some point.

Just give it a try and see where you land.

btw: I actually like meta builds because I don't have the time and knowledge to optimize my homebrew build. "Meta builds" are a very convenient way to get started because they just work and even when you don't play them optimally, you usually get enough out of it to do good enough 😉

[Bakeneko.5826]

On 3/15/2023 at 7:05 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

- what skill level or performance level is the group you are joining at? The more elite, the higher the performance expectations and the less tolerance for mistakes

or 5 players with 50k+ UFE join 5k party and just faceroll on chill mode

Edited March 17, 2023 by Bakeneko.5826

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

1 hour ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

or 5 players with 50k+ UFE join 5k party and just faceroll on chill mode

There's a skill cap in this game with diminishing returns. Once a player is decently good enough at the game, someone can't just come in and be multiple times better still, so there's a certain point where nothing is "chill mode" even for the most hardcore of players, because the "chill" part comes from them working hard.

 

It only looks like a faceroll to someone who doesn't understand the difficulty of playing on that level.

Edited March 17, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Linken.6345]

13 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

or 5 players with 50k+ UFE join 5k party and just faceroll on chill mode

How do you have 6 people in a party mate please explain.

[Bakeneko.5826]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

How do you have 6 people in a party mate please explain.

I'm... bad at math?

 

13 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

It only looks like a faceroll to someone who doesn't understand the difficulty of playing on that level.

Or, just maybe, it's face roll, due to the fact fractals have been done to the hell and back, where they can be done with eyes closed.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

50 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

I'm... bad at math?

 

Or, just maybe, it's face roll, due to the fact fractals have been done to the hell and back, where they can be done with eyes closed.

Even with the highest level of experience you still have to maintain rotations and mechanics? It doesn't just automatically become a faceroll because you've done it alot of times. That's sounds more like someone getting carried by the players actually doing the work.