Give Lifeforce On Respawn

[Zex Anthon.8673]

Its BS that necro has to start every match without access to its only form of defense and primary source of damage. Meanwhile DE can just spawncamp you cause it has a billion teleports, permanent invis, and oneshot burst from 1500 range.

[Methuselah.4376]

I feel you. But they won't; there's the trait Eternal Life (which is a joke in PvP) and you can also spam YSIM (which means your heal is potentially on CD when you need it most), not to mention despawning minions (and MM sucks in pvp). So yeah I agree with you, but they will tell you that you already have sources of LF...ignoring how laughable they are. 

[Greviathan.6107]

Besides what you wrote there is also to consider the Out Of Combat abusers, who are a concrete reality against necros.
 

I'm going to be a little drastic, but at least in WvW and PvE it should work like this:
- Shroud recharges twice as fast and generates 20% life force every second when out of combat.
 

The problem is also another one, necros needs to hit to generate a sufficient amount of live force, and this is currently not even that reliable since it must be put in the pot that the opponents often have stealth, many forms of invulnerability/evasiveness or high range, coupled with high pressure. Furthermore, high pressure is also problematic in melee since necros usually cannot compete in this field without shorud and an opponent who sticks on you still makes it difficult to generate LF, while for melee opponents it is not even a difficult task given the limited mobility of any necro.
 

There are ways to gain life force non-offensively but some require you to be hit and don't grant invulnerability, while others still require you to be in combat already, resulting in a waste of utility and traits.
 

And also ways to get LF out of combat. eg spamming minions and ysim...but is it necessary to use such a method?

Edited March 15, 2023 by Greviathan.6107
typo

[Dr Meta.3158]

Yeah I do agree that lifeforce should regenerate out of combat. You can pretty much do that at anytime in wvw but the means of doing so still subject it to being taken advantage of by much faster classes that can reset combat while whittling your lifeforce down.

But.... they'll never do that so eh.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

5 hours ago, Methuselah.4376 said:

I feel you. But they won't; there's the trait Eternal Life (which is a joke in PvP) and you can also spam YSIM (which means your heal is potentially on CD when you need it most), not to mention despawning minions (and MM sucks in pvp). So yeah I agree with you, but they will tell you that you already have sources of LF...ignoring how laughable they are. 

Whats the point of capping eternal life in pvp. Its like the devs intentionally are making necro bad. You already have to tradeoff a dps trait.

Imagine if the put a a flat 90s CD on all defensive utilities accross the board upon respawn. Thats what it feels like to play necro. Even then necro would still have the disadvantage cause it needs to build life force in combat.

Core doesnt have any ways to pump life force aside from bone minions.  So we are down to devoting a utility and a trait to lifeforce generation just to enter the battle on a equal footing.

[Elldar.1647]

I actually have a PvE build template on my necro dedicated entirely to topping up on LF because it's a PITA to go into a fight without it.
Goes something like this:

1. Swap to LFG(Life Force Generation) build

2. Summon 4-5 minions

3. Wait until Eternal Life brings LF to about 50%

4. Swap back

 

Boom, effortless full LF, and takes only about 10 seconds.

But yeah, it feels weirdly unnecessary that LF just doesn't regen out of combat by default. It would be nice QoL if it did and would eliminate the need for weird workarounds and such.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Elldar.1647

[Dr Meta.3158]

4 minutes ago, Elldar.1647 said:

I actually have a build template on my necro dedicated entirely to topping up on LF because it's a PITA to go into a fight without it.
Goes something like this:

1. Swap to LFG(Life Force Generation) build

2. Summon 4-5 minions

3. Wait until Eternal Life brings LF to about 50%

4. Swap back

 

Boom, effortless full LF, and takes only about 10 seconds.

But yeah, it feels weirdly unnecessary that LF just doesn't regen out of combat but default. It would be nice QoL if it did and would eliminate the need for weird workarounds and such.

Would also make necro easier to balance.

How the hell do you balance a class when every match is random depending on how much lifeforce you start with?

Edited March 15, 2023 by Dr Meta.3158
Spelling

[Zex Anthon.8673]

The necro on the team who wins the initial team fight is put at a significant advantage for the rest of the match.

Not having shroud readily available completely neuters your dps removing the ability to counter pressure. For this reason, Harbinger is probably the best PvP spec for Necro despite not having any defensive capability.

[Flumek.9043]

On 3/15/2023 at 9:44 PM, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

The necro on the team who wins the initial team fight is put at a significant advantage for the rest of the match.

Not having shroud readily available completely neuters your dps removing the ability to counter pressure. For this reason, Harbinger is probably the best PvP spec for Necro despite not having any defensive capability.

Sadly this imbalance problem is staying over 10 years.

 

Since 2013, sometimes with 100% LF you could almost 1v2 a meta spec, while with 0% you instadie.

2015 they designed revenant, to automatically always have 50% energy out of combat.

 

Why they cant do this to necro is beyond my comprehension.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

I’m a necro main, and I don’t agree with this. Specs should have counter-play and weaknesses in the grand scheme of things, and for necromancer, life force mismanagement is a weakness that other players should be able to capitalize on.

To add to this I align more with the idea of having more dynamic and better designed life force generation tools. An active element conducive to player skill rather than a passive one…

Other classes should have similar weaknesses and vulnerability points as well…but that’s the thing about other classes…they are often poorly designed which is why they seem so strong at times.

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Zex Anthon.8673]

4 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

I’m a necro main, and I don’t agree with this. Specs should have counter-play and weaknesses in the grand scheme of things, and for necromancer, life force mismanagement is a weakness that other players should be able to capitalize on.

To add to this I align more with the idea of having more dynamic and better designed life force generation tools. An active element conducive to player skill rather than a passive one…

Other classes should have similar weaknesses and vulnerability points as well…but that’s the thing about other classes…they are often poorly designed which is why they seem so strong at times.

 

Its not like this "weakness" would go away with a  change like this. Playing poorly and wasting lifeforce is still a challenge of the class. The change would take some of the randomness out of playing the class. Going into a fight with 100% lifeforce is completely different than entering a fight with 0% lifeforce.

Imagine if there was a global 10s cooldown on all block and evade skills upon entering combat. That would still be better since you wouldn't have to actively build up lifeforce allowing you to kite until the cooldown is up.