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WvW March 14, 2023 update


Gailena.5021

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6 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

You don't? Why not? If even 2 or 3 more players (out of the 70 map cap) had shown interest in actually long term holding the objective, the time needed to repair would have been reduced drastically. It absolutely is your teams "fault". Or rather the mindset of the players on your team. Back in "the olden days" where WvW was a net negative reward wise and upgrades to keeps and towers actually cost gold, I guarantee you a lot more players would have been found to repair or defend.

We didn't have a full map, we were even doing some of all this while outnumbered. All 4 towers had been dropped and retaking was going back and fourth. There wasn't enough supply that it would have made sense to say get us more till we could build that supply back up. The smart play was to move the fight out of our third so I get that, if the main force didn't then the havocs and roamers would need to move the action away if we had enough players on map at the time. Which is why I say the Tuesday change had already impacted people doing base repairs since this hadn't been an issue in weeks.

lol, I played in the golden age and was one of those that shelled out for the upgrades. No you are remembering with grass is greener view. There was nothing worse that would drive a wedge between guilds on the same server when various guilds would spend 2-3 hours building up a structure and setting defenses up and then as their people logged have another guild that would ignore defense callouts and go cap a T0 while the T3 on the same map was under attack and was lost after being fully fortified. Mind you this was in T1 in those days. In the golden age we had even more of a karma train going on as anyone that didn't spend the cash was fine with the, we will just take it back attitude. I don't want us to go back to that which is why I make callouts about actions that only help the karma train side of the equation. 

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On 3/17/2023 at 8:17 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I have NEVER seen an anet dev roaming or defending, or havoc.  They literally do one thing, hide behind a blob.  If you look at the balancing, blob vs. blob IS the only balance, they care less about small scale / dueling.  

So, anet itself drives WvW down one path, blob vs. blob.  They don't care where this takes place, as long as it does.  Which means nerfing defending into the ground as can't have a meaningful blob vs. blob with walls in the way.

Problem for their ideals is population balance.  A lot of times you don't get blob vs. blob because one side has no players to form a blob.  This is ignored with the balance direction (both profession and rewards balance), and thus we rightfully get complaint topics.

Anyway, I'd also love public tact pull callouts but they won't as they are afraid of people getting flamed.  Obviously, they care less about taking care of trolls which is why all the exploits, hacks, etc. still exist 10 years on.  

It's not a question of what you have seen. A while back Grouch wrote a devblog where he outlined how they see WvW. That is what it says.

Plus, while these forums are rife with nublets who complain about blobs, boons and attackers, the data just doesn't support that.

If you look at the matchups for this week:

http://gw2stats.com/na/

http://gw2stats.com/eu

You can see both regions dominated by objective-playing, roam- and cloud oriented servers. Neither Maguuma or WSR are anything to do with blobs or boons.

What we can agree on is that population imbalance is wringing the life out of WvW but it has done that for the past 10 years and we just go through periods of time where it strangles more or less. We're in a bit of a slump now. However, most of that has to do with Alliances. In fact, everything has to do with it. I'd say things like balance and rewards (while important topics in their own right) are not what drives trends the most. The two most successful servers at the moment (no matter how flawed the ladder is to measure success) are not the only servers that trend in the same manner. The entirety of T1 in EU was largely without blobs last week as there wasn't really any available matching for such content.

Spoiler

That doesn't mean that there are no more guilds or public groups available in any tier anymore, but it clearly is not what is trending. Instead, and I've said this before, what we see is a gravitation from 15-ish private groups and 50-ish public groups towards 30-ish more casual private groups and clouds. That is content-wise.

What is trending balance-wise is harder to discern because what makes many of the clouding servers successful, beyond the numbers that you speak of, is that they are usually comprised of a combination of PPT-driven players who once transfered there to stack existing strong PPK. They care and put effort into playing the objectives - together with alot of experienced veteran players whose guilds have recently died that no longer cares to put effort into the 15-man privates and 50-man publics, so they casually cloud and do some roaming instead. That is, in all honesty, much of how I behave myself right now. Their experience is part of what makes the balance hard to tell, because you have very experienced players clouding against crumbling relatively casual squads and on the other side of the equation you have very inexperienced players struggling to cloud either mediocre groups or far more experienced clouds. This is why people cry about Maguuma and WSR. All those clouding veterans and nightcappers may be boring to fight, sure, but all those other servers are also too casual to unseat them.

That pretty much is the content right now or at least its trends throughout most tiers in EU.

At the root of it all is population balance: It comes in the form of both stacked bodies (coverage) and stacked veterans (experience). That doesn't come from guilds though, it comes from the death of guilds. Everything else is secondary at best.

 

Edited by subversiontwo.7501
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4 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

It's not a question of what you have seen. A while back Grouch wrote a devblog where he outlined how they see WvW. That is what it says.

Plus, while these forums are rife with nublets who complain about blobs, boons and attackers, the data just doesn't support that.

If you look at the matchups for this week:

http://gw2stats.com/na/

http://gw2stats.com/eu

You can see both regions dominated by objective-playing, roam- and cloud oriented servers. Neither Maguuma or WSR are anything to do with blobs or boons.

<snip>

 

I can definitely see the line of reasoning, the only thing I'd argue is that clouds are essentially blobs (just unorganized).  For NA, even though Mag 'roams' they still do it at a 10:1 advantage.

Not that this doesn't fall under alliances for alleviating the problem, but that it currently still is a blob vs. lack of blob problem and exacerbated by the fact they only balance around blobs by prioritizing attacking over all else.  

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On 3/15/2023 at 11:51 AM, Gailena.5021 said:

For others WvW is standing in a field where 2 or 3 blobs attack each other. 

I've taken a break from the game precisely because this doesn't happen.  It's very, very often 1 blob with scattered players vs scattered players on 2 other servers, and that's it.  

 

If you can't field relatively equal, large numbers, on all sides then they might as well fold wvw altogether.

 

Note, I'm not against small defense vs big groups.  I don't hate roaming.  Like a post above said, I think all of these are fun and most of the veterans do it all at some point (and play most classes as well).  

 

But the core of world vs world is large numbers versus large numbers, or you might as well fold this game mode and sink all the resources into PvP.

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