Any tips on how to deal with Virtuoso?

[Eddie.9143]

On 3/17/2023 at 2:26 AM, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

Asking the real question. Virt is disgusting right now. It has like 90% invuln uptime with a short cooldown burst.

The only reason why it hasnt been dominating the meta is because catalyst is more effective at holding a point and can move accross the map in 2 seconds.

And you can just pillar or run away. 

[Zex Anthon.8673]

3 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

And you can just pillar or run away. 

How? It has superior mobility too.

[apharma.3741]

What is there to strawman?
This is what you said "or you have 18+ stacks of confusion at all times." referenced here:

You are factually incorrect as you cannot have 18 stacks of confusion at all times, ignoring that the sentence itself is illogical, then you start talking about something completely different to what you quoted from me. The only one trying to straw man here is you.

[Eddie.9143]

5 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

How? It has superior mobility too.

Virt? Almost all the damage is LOSable projectiles 

[Zex Anthon.8673]

43 minutes ago, Eddie.9143 said:

Virt? Almost all the damage is LOSable projectiles 

And it has invisibility and teleports to get around that.

[Burnfall.9573]

On 3/17/2023 at 3:54 AM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

The typical play pattern of a good virtuoso is to ensure that at all times they either are blocking, invulnerable, have aegis, are invisible, or you have 18+ stacks of confusion at all times. Virtuoso does have bursts but they have the consistent damage of weapon skills inbetween those bursts. The idea is to force you to use up all of your defensive while they can endlessly cycle through all of theirs so that eventually you can't avoid the easy to dodge bursts. This is a similar play pattern to fighting spellbreakers. They way to win against both classes is to frustrate them more than they frustrate you. 

Against spellbreaker, kite them endlessly and whenever they stop chasing, poke them at range to get them to start again. Make them regret playing spellbreaker for easy wins.

Against virtuoso (and greatsword mesmer specs in general) find a large obstacle and constantly line of sight them. Whenever they give up harass them again and lead them back to a large obstacle to line of sight behind.

 

You have to fight toxic designs with toxic play. Its not ideal but as long as arenanet promotes toxicity in their game design, its an unfortunate evil you have to partake in to win. If you're lucky, the players will get so frustrated that they will stop cycling through defenses and go all in to try to kill you, that's your opportunity to finish them. And considering that they're the type of people attracted to such toxic playstles, it won't take long for them to lose composure.

You might see some dumb advice on the forum from low skilled players like try to walk through their shatters to get behind them.

Don't do anything stupid like that. And toxic, irrelevant answers given like the guy above me, ignore them. They're one of the few people that enjoy toxic design. Apply what you learned here and make them regret their toxic preferences.

Good luck.

Very Well Said!

 

Thank You!!!

Edited March 18, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[ollbirtan.2915]

you just ignore it and move on with your business around the map. The damage it does is laughable unless you keep hitting it giving it those juicy blocks. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by ollbirtan.2915

[Zex Anthon.8673]

1 hour ago, ollbirtan.2915 said:

you just ignore it and move on with your business around the map. The damage it does is laughable unless you keep hitting it giving it those juicy blocks. 

Ah yes the pinnacle of good game design. Non interactability. 

[ollbirtan.2915]

10 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

Ah yes the pinnacle of good game design. Non interactability. 

I mean if you never heard of counter play, look it up 🤷‍♂️

[Dr Meta.3158]

22 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

What is there to strawman?
This is what you said "or you have 18+ stacks of confusion at all times." referenced here:

You are factually incorrect as you cannot have 18 stacks of confusion at all times, ignoring that the sentence itself is illogical, then you start talking about something completely different to what you quoted from me. The only one trying to straw man here is you.

I simply cannot help you and it ultimately doesn't matter. Many others understood the post and took the knowledge from it and can use it against virtuosos to help in those matchups. Everyone else who can't, oh well.

[Dr Meta.3158]

18 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Very Well Said!

 

Thank You!!!

Glad to help. 🙂

[Terrorhuz.4695]

16 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

Ah yes the pinnacle of good game design. Non interactability. 

Nobody said virtuoso is good design, we're just giving you a way to cope with it until some developer puts it out of its misery.

[stormemperor.3745]

Its because your team doesn't pressure enough, when people see virtuoso go invul they simply stop and go somewhere, you just need to pressure hard, follow and aim your cc just before their invul ends, they are likely to dodge and invul again, bait them with stow. Grats you just made virt waste a dodge and invul, now virt thinks you wasted your cc(assuming virt doesn't check invul text) and is going to use heal. This is your prime opportunity use the cc you cancelled and interrupt healing but it doesn't end here. This is simply 3-5 seconds combat. Now you need to consider, how many enemies or allies around, Whether you can continue or not.

 

I'll assume that you kittened up heal interrupt and virt healed to 70%~~, now virt is likely to counter attack using full stocked blades. Depending your skill cds, either continue to pressure, bait , wait ally or disengage.

 

For 100% hp all skills off cd, continue to bait and throw some low cd attacks, dodges are very important time them well.

Against condition, watch out for confusion, duh

Against power, use your pro gamer skills and spider senses, 6th sense is also a bonus. You will achieve small success at these after 100-200h+ pvp. Mesmers love their gs 4,5 and you need love them more, focus with your mind's eye and dodge it.

Edited March 19, 2023 by stormemperor.3745

[Dr Meta.3158]

2 hours ago, stormemperor.3745 said:

Its because your team doesn't pressure enough, when people see virtuoso go invul they simply stop and go somewhere, you just need to pressure hard, follow and aim your cc just before their invul ends, they are likely to dodge and invul again, bait them with stow. Grats you just made virt waste a dodge and invul, now virt thinks you wasted your cc(assuming virt doesn't check invul text) and is going to use heal. This is your prime opportunity use the cc you cancelled and interrupt healing but it doesn't end here. This is simply 3-5 seconds combat. Now you need to consider, how many enemies or allies around, Whether you can continue or not.

 

I'll assume that you kittened up heal interrupt and virt healed to 70%~~, now virt is likely to counter attack using full stocked blades. Depending your skill cds, either continue to pressure, bait , wait ally or disengage.

 

For 100% hp all skills off cd, continue to bait and throw some low cd attacks, dodges are very important time them well.

Against condition, watch out for confusion, duh

Against power, use your pro gamer skills and spider senses, 6th sense is also a bonus. You will achieve small success at these after 100-200h+ pvp. Mesmers love their gs 4,5 and you need love them more, focus with your mind's eye and dodge it.

A full team focusing the virtuoso while the virtuoso chains defenses and the virtuoso's team sweeps yours in the interim is not the correct play.

In a more traditional MMO, this is like having your team focus on killing the tank.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 3/18/2023 at 5:33 AM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@lotus.5672 come here and explain to me how you cleanse chilled with Auspicious Anguish, I am waiting

 

we need an 👀🍿 react 

April 1st Anet. Make it happen, even if it's a microtransaction.

 

Quote

Ah yes the pinnacle of good game design. Non interactability. 

There's a surprising number of mesmers not on board with the fact that this isn't good design, actually. It reminds me of the warriors bristling at the dumb version of bladesworn that spammed utilities to heal. 

A notable few were here for mirage too but back then they were drowned out by people justifying Elusive Mind/stun dodge shenanigans.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Spellhunter.9675]

5 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

April 1st Anet. Make it happen, even if it's a microtransaction.

Microtransactions for the forum. I can see anet is actually doing it.

[Leonidrex.5649]

14 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

we need an 👀🍿 react 

April 1st Anet. Make it happen, even if it's a microtransaction.

 

There's a surprising number of mesmers not on board with the fact that this isn't good design, actually. It reminds me of the warriors bristling at the dumb version of bladesworn that spammed utilities to heal. 

A notable few were here for mirage too but back then they were drowned out by people justifying Elusive Mind/stun dodge shenanigans.

arent you the rev main that was crying about resistace change, at the peak of condi rev meta where rev was perpetually immune to all conditions?
if its indeed you thats kind of ironic isnt it ? I just dont remember, there is quite a bit of them lol.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

6 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

arent you the rev main that was crying about resistace change, at the peak of condi rev meta where rev was perpetually immune to all conditions?
if its indeed you thats kind of ironic isnt it ? I just dont remember, there is quite a bit of them lol.

Don't you dare hijacking MY flame. @lotus.5672 is the focus now. Go find your own thread!

Edited March 21, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[ventress.4879]

Honestly I find a good Mirage the hardest Mesmer to deal with since it seems like they can run at a moment notice and chasing them is impossible to do. 

Like people have been saying it's very easy to watch for when a Virtuoso is not immune to damage and just CC them which intern makes them fall over. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by ventress.4879

[shion.2084]

13 hours ago, ventress.4879 said:

Honestly I find a good Mirage the hardest Mesmer to deal with since it seems like they can run at a moment notice and chasing them is impossible to do. 

Like people have been saying it's very easy to watch for when a Virtuoso is not immune to damage and just CC them which intern makes them all over. 

yeah its that brief second while they are dodge rolling.